Jeff wrote in
:

* Ed Gordon wrote, On 6/10/2007 12:08 PM:
Jeff wrote in
:

It was that web site that made me lose all respect for certain Mac
owners. It is, like some Mac proponents, a stream of nautical
gibberish. There's enough nautical nonsense to fill a pineapple
under the sea.

That's because you admitted you hate Macs, man!!!

Where did I "admit" that? I love innovative boats. I just dislike
foolish claims by ignorant novices.

...
That makes sense - the boat dances at anchor and therefore must be
just like a multihull.

He's talking about the speed not the kind of hull. I think he's
thinking about shallow draft like most catamarans are shallow draft
so they dance around at anchor because they don't have a big heavy
deep keel to keep them in one place. It makes sense to me.

Sorry, boats "dance" because of their windage relative to the lateral
resistance. Boat with high freeboard (like a Mac) or a rig forward
(Nonsuch or Freedom) or forward coachroof (many cruising cats) dance.
Shallow draft is usually not the significant factor.


I disagree. Take an old deep keel and long keel boat like a Westerly 32.
It will barely move at all at anchor. The deep long keel keeps it
straight into the wind like a weather vane.Boat's that dance at anchor
say "shallow draft".


In another place he asserts a tacking angle of 64 degrees, even
though most Mac owners report the expected 95 degrees.

You gotta know how to sail them, man. 64 degrees is too low and 95
degrees is dreaming. Even the Americas cup boats can't do 95% unless
the wind is maybe blowing six or seven mph. I used to tack about 75
or 80 degrees with mind in moderate breezes. In heaver winds it might
be low around 60 because of the slippage because of the short keel
that doesn't bite that great.

As I said, I don't like foolish claims by ignorant novices.

I'm hardly a novice. I've owned and sailed a Mac 26X. I was always
worried about how sea worthy it was and one of the main reasons was
because it was shallow draft and seaworthy boats are usually deep draft.
But, not all of them.




Macs can do 20. 12-15 is about half throttle, man. And the article
said there are lots of Macs in England and some of them were probily
saiked there.

Macs can do 20 with some engines in idealized conditions. Loaded with
cruising gear, fuel, ballast tank full, and fighting a minimal ocean
chop, 15 is a more realistic upper limit. In fact, while the Mac
boards have some people claiming extreme speeds, they also have a lot
of folks that admit they have never been above 12 knots.


Well they must have motors that aren't running right if they go that
slow. Or maybe they've got them way overloaded. A Mac is like your
catamaran you claim to have. If you overload them too much it makes them
slow.

Nope. But you're the one claiming that Macs sail more than "keel
boats" and the don't mind going out in the ocean. Since I've done
about 12000 miles cruising since the 26X came out, you would think I
might see one on occasion.

You're as bad as that other guy who said he always sees Macs in
protected waters. That means he's in protected waters himself. If he
wants to see Macs in unprotected waters he needs to go out in
unprotected waters himself.


First of all, I don't have a keel boat. And I can assure you that its
much faster than a Mac on all points of sail.

But, you shouldn't cop an attitude because maybe your boat is
slower and not as versatil but it might have at least one good point.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!! What kinda boat do you have anyway?
Probably a cheap Hunter or something like that.

A PDQ 36 catamaran. More boat than you can even dream of.


Not even legal to trailer. You need a wide-load permit for that boat of
yours. I bet you have to pay extra for a wider slip too. Probably double
the cost of a Mac slip. I prefer a boat you don't have to go to the poor
house to own and enjoy.

--
Cheerio,
Ed Gordon
http://www.freewebs.com/egordon873/index.htm

* Ed Gordon wrote, On 6/11/2007 3:21 PM:
Sorry, boats "dance" because of their windage relative to the lateral
resistance. Boat with high freeboard (like a Mac) or a rig forward
(Nonsuch or Freedom) or forward coachroof (many cruising cats) dance.
Shallow draft is usually not the significant factor.


I disagree. Take an old deep keel and long keel boat like a Westerly 32.
It will barely move at all at anchor. The deep long keel keeps it
straight into the wind like a weather vane.Boat's that dance at anchor
say "shallow draft".

I don't know which Westerly you mean, they made several 32 footers.
But none that I know have either "deep" or "long" keels.

So if a Mac dances too much, why not just lower the center/daggerboard
to increase the draft? Its because the dancing is caused by the high
freeboard creating too much windage forward.




In another place he asserts a tacking angle of 64 degrees, even
though most Mac owners report the expected 95 degrees.
You gotta know how to sail them, man. 64 degrees is too low and 95
degrees is dreaming. Even the Americas cup boats can't do 95% unless
the wind is maybe blowing six or seven mph. I used to tack about 75
or 80 degrees with mind in moderate breezes. In heaver winds it might
be low around 60 because of the slippage because of the short keel
that doesn't bite that great.
As I said, I don't like foolish claims by ignorant novices.

I'm hardly a novice. I've owned and sailed a Mac 26X. I was always
worried about how sea worthy it was and one of the main reasons was
because it was shallow draft and seaworthy boats are usually deep draft.
But, not all of them.

If you're not a novice, how could you write such gibberish about the
tacking angle? Do you even understand what it is?




Macs can do 20. 12-15 is about half throttle, man. And the article
said there are lots of Macs in England and some of them were probily
saiked there.
Macs can do 20 with some engines in idealized conditions. Loaded with
cruising gear, fuel, ballast tank full, and fighting a minimal ocean
chop, 15 is a more realistic upper limit. In fact, while the Mac
boards have some people claiming extreme speeds, they also have a lot
of folks that admit they have never been above 12 knots.


Well they must have motors that aren't running right if they go that
slow. Or maybe they've got them way overloaded. A Mac is like your
catamaran you claim to have. If you overload them too much it makes them
slow.

No, the one I remember were real cruisers who went out for more than
one overnight. I assume they had the boats somewhat loaded and didn't
think it was prudent to go faster. Roger MacGregor himself says that
the top speed is reduced a knot for every hundred pounds, it really
doesn't take a lot of extra gear, food, water, and fuel to reduce the
top speed considerably.

On top of that, the fuel economy at full throttle isn't all that good.



Nope. But you're the one claiming that Macs sail more than "keel
boats" and the don't mind going out in the ocean. Since I've done
about 12000 miles cruising since the 26X came out, you would think I
might see one on occasion.

You're as bad as that other guy who said he always sees Macs in
protected waters. That means he's in protected waters himself. If he
wants to see Macs in unprotected waters he needs to go out in
unprotected waters himself.

I do the vast majority of my sailing outside of the harbor. However,
I'm generally on "standard routes" for cruisers, such as Boston to
Provincetown, or Gloucester, etc. And we spend a lot of time at the
common destinations. I see Hunters, Catalinas, Bene's, and all of
the other expected boats. But I don't see Macs. Its not as though
they're hard to spot - they don't exactly blend in.

Of course, part of this is that Mac's are not too popular here in New
England. Within Boston Harbor there's a number of places to sail, but
once you get "outside" you're in the open ocean and it gets a little
too bouncy for a lightweight boat. While we don't always have 3-4
foot seas, its often enough that you have to always be prepared for it.



First of all, I don't have a keel boat. And I can assure you that its
much faster than a Mac on all points of sail.

But, you shouldn't cop an attitude because maybe your boat is
slower and not as versatil but it might have at least one good point.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!! What kinda boat do you have anyway?
Probably a cheap Hunter or something like that.
A PDQ 36 catamaran. More boat than you can even dream of.


Not even legal to trailer. You need a wide-load permit for that boat of
yours.

At 18 feet wide I don't think any of my sisterships have ever been on
a trailer!

I bet you have to pay extra for a wider slip too. Probably double
the cost of a Mac slip.

Nope - I've never had to pay double. While traveling, we virtually
never have had to pay a premium. Finding a "home slip" however is a
bit more difficult, and I often pay about a modest premium to be in a
special spot that's usually saved for larger boats, but on average I'm
way ahead on that score.

I prefer a boat you don't have to go to the poor
house to own and enjoy.

Each to his own - I like to live on the boat for the summer with my
family, and have guests join us for extended stays. That's not too
practical on a Mac.

"Jeff" wrote in


Not even legal to trailer. You need a wide-load permit
for that boat of
yours.

with a permit, it would then be legal, you putz.




At 18 feet wide I don't think any of my sisterships have
ever been on
a trailer!


probably right, but it is doable.

Scotty

* Scotty wrote, On 6/11/2007 11:34 PM:
At 18 feet wide I don't think any of my sisterships have
ever been on a trailer!

probably right, but it is doable.


Actually, I should have added "on a public road." My boat, and its
sisters, were hauled on a special trailer from the factory (the same
building Alberg 30's and Whitby 42's were built in) across the lot to
the marina for launch with a crane. Virtually all of the boats left
the factory on their own bottoms, but there were rumors that a few of
the smaller cats (15 foot beams) left on the highway.

"Ed Gordon" wrote in message
8...

snip

I disagree. Take an old deep keel and long keel boat like a Westerly 32.
It will barely move at all at anchor. The deep long keel keeps it
straight into the wind like a weather vane.

Not if there's any tide running they don't.