* Ed Gordon wrote, On 6/12/2007 11:53 AM:
Jeff wrote in
:

And yet, just yesterday, you bragged about how fast it would go with
an empty ballast tank with the Honda engine.


Hey, man, I can do it because I'm not stupid or drunk. I was smart
enough not to have bowriders etc. Keep the people inside or in the
cockpit for stability with an empty tank. It does go faster without the
ballast under power. It's just plain physics.

So what is it? First you say fill the tanks, now you say run empty?


So please explain to us which boats it sails faster than. You've said
many times that its a "fast sailer" but when I look at the ratings, I
have trouble finding a boat remotely comparable to a Mac that isn't
10% faster, or more. In fact, its real hard to find a boat that's
slower than a Mac. So please, give us an example of a boat that sails
slower than a Mac.

Any boat that has less length waterline will be slower than a Mac under
sail.

Only an idiot or a simpleton would make that claim. There are many
more factors than waterline length.

But since the Mac is a plaining hull it can go faster than heavy
ballast keel boats in winds strong enough to plain it off.

The Mac can plane only in certain limited situations.

You want an
example, just look up boats that have less than a 23 feet. Here's one
much slower Alerion Express 20.

Oh, so you pick a boat 6 feet shorter - one that's designed for simple
daysailing. It shouldn't be too hard to beat a boat like that. OK,
lets look at the USSailing Portsmouth Yardstick for these two boats.
The Mac 26X is 99.5, but the Alerion 20 is only 93.1. So that means
the Alerion is more than 6% faster than the Mac.

Sorry, maybe you're faster than a Rhodes 19. Nope, that's 96.9.
Wait! I found one! You're faster than a Typhoon, the 18 foot Alberg
design. It only rates 106.9. Congratulations, the mac is not the
slowest boat on the water!

Yes, that's the perfect boat for a family cruiser. Even in perfect
weather, if you get complacent it will roll over and kill you.

Catamarans roll over and kill people too. People still buy them too.
It's because they know the risks. Every boat has it's own risks. You're
too uptight, man.

The difference is that a cat has a small chance of rolling in extreme
weather, hurricanes and the like. The Mac has a chance of rolling if
a few people are standing up and you goose the throttle by mistake.

* Scotty wrote, On 6/12/2007 2:38 PM:
"Ed Gordon" wrote in message
8...
You just ain't to bright there, man! He meant putting the
Mac inside a
shipping container. Not using a Mac for a shipping
container.
Make a cradle padded with carpet to set the Mac on and
then slide it
right into the shipping container. Then pad it out with
styrofoam
peanuts or something like that. It would survive without a
scratch even
in a hurricane.


Oh boy, the blind leading the blind.

just put it on it's cheap flimsy trailer and roll into the
container. I believe you can get two in a 40' er. You have
to '69' them.

SBV


Actually being able to do that was a specific design requirement.
They ship them all over the world like that. What's the cost of a 40
to Australia, about 5 or 6K?

"Jeff" wrote in message
. ..
* Scotty wrote, On 6/12/2007 2:38 PM:
"Ed Gordon" wrote in message
8...
You just ain't to bright there, man! He meant putting the
Mac inside a
shipping container. Not using a Mac for a shipping
container.
Make a cradle padded with carpet to set the Mac on and
then slide it
right into the shipping container. Then pad it out with
styrofoam
peanuts or something like that. It would survive without a
scratch even
in a hurricane.


Oh boy, the blind leading the blind.

just put it on it's cheap flimsy trailer and roll into the
container. I believe you can get two in a 40' er. You have
to '69' them.

SBV


Actually being able to do that was a specific design requirement. They
ship them all over the world like that. What's the cost of a 40 to
Australia, about 5 or 6K?


That's what I was thinking...if there's such a big market for them in
Australia, and the markup can double the US price...why not ship half a
dozen on a regular container ship (two to a container). A lot quicker and
safer than sailing one at a time.

"Don White" wrote in message
...



That's what I was thinking...if there's such a big market
for them in
Australia, and the markup can double the US price...why
not ship half a
dozen on a regular container ship (two to a container). A
lot quicker and
safer than sailing one at a time.


they do.

"Jeff" wrote in message
. ..
* Scotty wrote, On 6/12/2007 2:38 PM:
"Ed Gordon" wrote in message
8...
You just ain't to bright there, man! He meant putting
the
Mac inside a
shipping container. Not using a Mac for a shipping
container.
Make a cradle padded with carpet to set the Mac on and
then slide it
right into the shipping container. Then pad it out with
styrofoam
peanuts or something like that. It would survive
without a
scratch even
in a hurricane.


Oh boy, the blind leading the blind.

just put it on it's cheap flimsy trailer and roll into
the
container. I believe you can get two in a 40' er. You
have
to '69' them.

SBV


Actually being able to do that was a specific design
requirement.
They ship them all over the world like that. What's the
cost of a 40
to Australia, about 5 or 6K?


I think it's closer to 12-14k. Maybe more. I'll ask
tomorrow.

Scotty

In article , egordon873
@aol.com says...
"Scotty" wrote in
:


never heard of a shipping container, eh genius?



I saw a picture with a Mac26M inside a shipping container. It fit real
good. But it would probably cost ten or twenty grand to ship a Mac to
Australia. You could sail it there for probably 500 bucks worth of
groceries and drinks.

Well that's how they ship 'em - to NZ anyway. It's about five grand
BTW, IIRC.

--
Duncan

In article , egordon873
@aol.com says...
"KLC Lewis" wrote in
et:


So when the wind pipes up to force 6 or 7 and the mast starts pumping
and flexing that cabintop and you're 2000 miles from anywhere... "Oh
God, thy sea is so big and my boat is so small, and why didn't you
bless me with two broken legs on the day before I was to set off on
this voyage?"




On a Mac you can take the mast down for less windage. It makes the
stability better, too. You can motor along and keep up with the waves so
they don't break over you.

And here's me thinking - I want stability - I'll put my sail *UP*.

I've had ma boat out in 30+kts, but I know she'd handle quite a lot more
than that too. I prefer to sail those conditions, than motor - I find
the boat far more stable (read: even) on the water, and subsequently a
lot more controllable. Most importantly, less stressful.

--
Duncan

"Duncan McC (NZ)" wrote in message
. nz...
In article , egordon873
@aol.com says...
"KLC Lewis" wrote in
et:


So when the wind pipes up to force 6 or 7 and the mast starts pumping
and flexing that cabintop and you're 2000 miles from anywhere... "Oh
God, thy sea is so big and my boat is so small, and why didn't you
bless me with two broken legs on the day before I was to set off on
this voyage?"




On a Mac you can take the mast down for less windage. It makes the
stability better, too. You can motor along and keep up with the waves so
they don't break over you.

And here's me thinking - I want stability - I'll put my sail *UP*.

I've had ma boat out in 30+kts, but I know she'd handle quite a lot more
than that too. I prefer to sail those conditions, than motor - I find
the boat far more stable (read: even) on the water, and subsequently a
lot more controllable. Most importantly, less stressful.

--
Duncan


Ducan.. you and every real sailor knows this.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Duncan McC (NZ)" wrote in message
z...
In article
, egordon873
@aol.com says...
"Scotty" wrote in
:


never heard of a shipping container, eh genius?



I saw a picture with a Mac26M inside a shipping
container. It fit real
good. But it would probably cost ten or twenty grand to
ship a Mac to
Australia. You could sail it there for probably 500
bucks worth of
groceries and drinks.

Well that's how they ship 'em - to NZ anyway. It's about
five grand
BTW, IIRC.


per boat, or per container?
I was told it would be more than 10 grand, BUT, that's from
the east coast.

SBV

On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 17:34:19 -0400, Jeff wrote:

* Vic Smith wrote, On 6/12/2007 8:55 AM:

If my wife would let me sell the house I might consider the PDQ, and
could then look down on the Mac myself.

Why would you "look down" on any boat? Almost all boats, the Mac
included, have their place. Contrary to Ed's delusions, I don't hate
the Mac. All I've done is point out that some of the outrageous
claims don't hold water.

My apologies. No offense intended. "Look down" was a thoughtless
and wrong expression.
Let's just say that if I had a quarter million boat budget a Mac 26
"would not be considered" - for any purpose.
I would simply buy one sailboat that sailed well for sailing and a
boat like the Parker for gunkholing, and have plenty of cash to spare.
Or maybe a low draft cat, which could actually suit both goals.
My impression is that a knee-deep (=24") draft cat with suitable 3
week livability for 2 either doesn't exist or cost too much for my
budget, but I may be wrong about that, as I haven't looked hard.
I do think cats make the best cruisers and generally sail very well,
so I'm in no way a traditional sailing purist.
BTW, using that Mac which turtled as an argument against the Mac is
akin to claiming F/P Tobago 35 cruising cats flip easily because of
that recent Gulf incident. Apparently that cat also flipped in '01.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...rs-3534-3.html
These rare owner-induced incidents put me off a boat no more than
knowing that a 42' mast shouldn't be sailed under high voltage lines
hanging 40' above the water.

The bottom line for the Mac is that it has two distinguishing
features: It has a power boat inspired hull that permits it to make
use of the large engine, and it has maximized the interior space of a
street legal boat. However these features don't come without a cost.
Its virtually the slowest sailer you could buy. As a powerboat it
also has limitations - it isn't really that fast, and certainly
wouldn't be much fun in a real sea.

So if the two big features are truly big features for you, then maybe
the Mac is a good choice. I would strongly consider it if I wanted to
drive around the country and explore the inland lakes. But I think
you've already said that the large engine and the trailering are not
top priority for you, so I'm not sure why you're in love with the Mac.

Nice analysis. Might be more accurate to say I'm in love with Mac
threads rather than Macs, since I'm always learning something and
getting my mind changed in some respect in those threads, and
comparable boats unknown to me are recommended.
In order, the shallow draft, cabin, turnkey condition and price are
what I like most about the available Macs. Light air and pointing
performance are big negatives. I've concluded I won't know what
compromises I'll make until I sail a number of different boats in the
very waters where I intend to sail.

However, it has never occurred to me to get a new Marshall. These
boat are quite well made, and the $35K that you would pay for a Mac
would get you a rather high quality example. In fact of the 5
currently listed on YachtWorld, all are under 30K. These are
extremely solid hulls, simple rigs, strong diesels. The systems are
minimal - no gensets or A/C - so needed repairs would be minimal.
Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if a used Marshall actually has fewer
problems than a new Mac.

As for space, the styles are quite different. Certainly the cockpit
on the Marshall is far more comfortable than the Mac, but it doesn't
have the two double bunks. Also, I'd expect the Marshall to be faster.

I looked and see your point here. They are very nice looking boats,
all around and inside. Here's one "review."
http://www.sailnet.com/boatchk/showp...p?product=1138
Though I won't go ocean sailing, I can't exclude the possibility of
getting caught in 6-8' waves in the Gulf. I'm not sure the Marshall
22 would be safer in that than the Mac 26.

Jeff, though I appreciate your advice, I'm thinking more in line with
Capt'n Neal's website boat buying advice regarding price.
Trouble is the Capt'n is a deep keel, blue water, bristol fashion
sailor.

You really drank the Kool-aid on that one!!!

Coffee. Lots of it.

But Neal is right that your first boat should be simple and cheap.
This will be a learning experience, both learning how to care for a
boat, and learning what kind of boat you want.

And I just want a fairly comfortable gunkholer.

Is there some reason why you need a new boat?

No, but I don't buy fixer-uppers. I like turnkey shipshape.
I can handle buying old cars because I concentrate on certain models I
know well. I *never* encounter unanticipated expenses.
I know diddly about boat construction and hidden problems, except that
many owners find out about them too late. If I buy used, I'll go in
with my eyes open.

--Vic