Well duh...who can afford all that diesel?

"Maxprop" wrote in message
nk.net...

"katysails" wrote in message

Well, with a boat that size you need someone to assist...I think the
"assist" is pretty well not willing...the 42 was an accommodation rather
than a cottage, I believe...she wanted a trawler....the 30 used to go out
several times a weekend...

Lots of the anti-sailing women who own sailboats are talking trawler these
days. Some say it's a natural evolutionary trend with sailors. I say
it's a lazy trend. Trawlers--the full displacement types--go no faster
than a 40' sailboat and leave the dock even less.

Max

"katysails" wrote in message

Well duh...who can afford all that diesel?

A single engine trawler, such as a Nordhavn 43 running at 8 kts., is
relatively economical to operate compared with, say, a semi-displacement
trawler, such as a Grand Banks 42 with twin 3208 Cats running at 14kts.
Then again I buy roughly $40 of diesel per annum.

Max

right....I think we spent $25.00 last season....pump outs were a bit more,
though...too bad you can't harvest the methane from a holding tank straight
into the diesel system and run on your own power...just think, Neal could
circumnavigate with one week's worth...

"Maxprop" wrote in message
nk.net...

"katysails" wrote in message

Well duh...who can afford all that diesel?

A single engine trawler, such as a Nordhavn 43 running at 8 kts., is
relatively economical to operate compared with, say, a semi-displacement
trawler, such as a Grand Banks 42 with twin 3208 Cats running at 14kts.
Then again I buy roughly $40 of diesel per annum.

Max

Well duh...who can afford all that diesel?


Maxprop wrote:
A single engine trawler, such as a Nordhavn 43 running at 8 kts., is
relatively economical to operate compared with, say, a semi-displacement
trawler, such as a Grand Banks 42 with twin 3208 Cats running at 14kts.
Then again I buy roughly $40 of diesel per annum.


Well, if you doubled... or quadrupled... that, would it be a major
expense factor? You'd have to cruise at least half time or more
(depending on the boat, I don't think of Nordhavens as particularly
fuel-efficient) to spend on fuel what you already spend on insurance and
taxes. Add in a full-time slip, and fuel becomes almost trivial.

I can tell you this- for what sails & running rigging cost, I can cruise
a long long way in our trawler. We've spent approx $150 on fuel this
year, making 2 cruises of 300+ miles plus going out almost every
weekend, and we've still got more than 1/2 full tanks... which is good,
because now we're running the heater almost full time...

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"DSK" wrote in message

Well duh...who can afford all that diesel?


Maxprop wrote:
A single engine trawler, such as a Nordhavn 43 running at 8 kts., is
relatively economical to operate compared with, say, a semi-displacement
trawler, such as a Grand Banks 42 with twin 3208 Cats running at 14kts.
Then again I buy roughly $40 of diesel per annum.


Well, if you doubled... or quadrupled... that, would it be a major expense
factor?

No, but $160 won't take you far in even a 35' CWB with a single Ford Lehman
135. We didn't cruise much this past year--no time and ****ty weather--but
still logged around 400 miles, mostly under power. The CWB would have
racked up a $250 diesel bill with the same distance at 8 kts. My friend's
35 CWB with twin 125 Lehmans burns about half a gallon per mile, and another
friend with a similar wood trawler with a single 135 Lehman burns about 1/4
gallon per mile. My boat gets about 8-10 miles per gallon, depending upon
wind and if assisted by sail.

You'd have to cruise at least half time or more (depending on the boat, I
don't think of Nordhavens as particularly fuel-efficient) to spend on fuel
what you already spend on insurance and taxes. Add in a full-time slip,
and fuel becomes almost trivial.

Insurance: approx. $400 for my 34' Sea Sprite, taxes: approx. $60 per
year, not including fuel taxes or sales tax. Grand total of $500, including
fuel expense. If I cruised half the time, I'd have well over 2000 miles in
the trawler, and no trawler I'm familiar with can travel that distance on
$500. More like $1250. And why aren't Nordhavn's fuel efficient? A
Nordhavn 40 with a 140 Lugger or a 101 John Deere and 920 gallons of diesel
can cross the Atlantic, or travel roughly 2750 miles without refueling. Try
that in a Grand Banks with a pair of 3208s, not that GBs are offshore boats
by any stretch.

I can tell you this- for what sails & running rigging cost, I can cruise a
long long way in our trawler.

This is a typical obfuscation of the argument when powerboaters attempt to
compare costs with sailors. No one denies that both types of boats have
expenses, albeit quite different ones. The net costs typically average out
between the two types of boats of similar length and displacement. It's
*pay me now or pay me later.* But we were discussing fuel costs. Period.
And it wasn't my intent to denigrate powerboats or trawlers.

We've spent approx $150 on fuel this year, making 2 cruises of 300+ miles
plus going out almost every weekend, and we've still got more than 1/2 full
tanks... which is good, because now we're running the heater almost full
time...

What type of boat do you have? What power? Sounds quite economical, unless
you only run at 6 or so knots.

Max

"Maxprop" wrote

No, but $160 won't take you far in even a 35' CWB with a single Ford
Lehman
135. We didn't cruise much this past year--no time and ****ty
weather--but
still logged around 400 miles, mostly under power.

400 miles? I put that on in one trip, and I was sailing 98% of the
time.

Scotty

Well, if you doubled... or quadrupled... that, would it be a major expense
factor?


Maxprop wrote:
No, but $160 won't take you far in even a 35' CWB with a single Ford Lehman
135.

It will if the bottoms's clean, engine in good shape, and you know how
to drive.


... We didn't cruise much this past year--no time and ****ty weather--but
still logged around 400 miles, mostly under power. The CWB would have
racked up a $250 diesel bill with the same distance at 8 kts.

Well, that's part of the problem. Going 8 knots is wasteful. At 7 knots
the fuel burn is about half, at 6 1/2 it's less than a quarter.



... My friend's
35 CWB with twin 125 Lehmans burns about half a gallon per mile, and another
friend with a similar wood trawler with a single 135 Lehman burns about 1/4
gallon per mile.

That's still about twice what we burn.

... My boat gets about 8-10 miles per gallon, depending upon
wind and if assisted by sail.

Well, obviously sails don't burn fuel, but they are expensive and have a
limited life span. You could, if you were diligent, figure out how many
miles/$ you got out of sails, but you'd probably prefer to not know.




You'd have to cruise at least half time or more (depending on the boat, I
don't think of Nordhavens as particularly fuel-efficient) to spend on fuel
what you already spend on insurance and taxes. Add in a full-time slip,
and fuel becomes almost trivial.


Insurance: approx. $400 for my 34' Sea Sprite, taxes: approx. $60 per
year, not including fuel taxes or sales tax. Grand total of $500, including
fuel expense. If I cruised half the time, I'd have well over 2000 miles in
the trawler, and no trawler I'm familiar with can travel that distance on
$500. More like $1250.

Only if wasteful. I'd expect to burn half that. Part of it is that with
good fuel capacity, shallow draft, and patience, you can buy at the
cheapest places. For example, our last fuel buy was late summer and
$1.20/gal


... And why aren't Nordhavn's fuel efficient?

They're too beamy and they're dragging an extra prop through the water.

... A
Nordhavn 40 with a 140 Lugger

Which is about twice the power it'll ever realistically need.

or a 101 John Deere and 920 gallons of diesel
can cross the Atlantic, or travel roughly 2750 miles without refueling.

That's still not even 3 miles per gallon.

... Try
that in a Grand Banks with a pair of 3208s, not that GBs are offshore boats
by any stretch.

No twin is fuel efficient, but that's not the point. Twins are supposed
to be fast.



I can tell you this- for what sails & running rigging cost, I can cruise a
long long way in our trawler.


This is a typical obfuscation of the argument when powerboaters attempt to
compare costs with sailors. No one denies that both types of boats have
expenses, albeit quite different ones. The net costs typically average out
between the two types of boats of similar length and displacement. It's
*pay me now or pay me later.* But we were discussing fuel costs. Period.

Right

And it's my point that fuel simply isn't that great an expense, compared
with all the other costs of having & keeping & maintaining the boat.

And it wasn't my intent to denigrate powerboats or trawlers.

I didn't think you were, just making a point.



We've spent approx $150 on fuel this year, making 2 cruises of 300+ miles
plus going out almost every weekend, and we've still got more than 1/2 full
tanks... which is good, because now we're running the heater almost full
time...


What type of boat do you have?

http://community.webshots.com/album/63279185YQtgSA

1984 Sundowner 36

... What power?

Ford Lehman 135 with 2100 hrs, barely broken in. Again, twice as much
power as needed, but it has a nice prop.

... Sounds quite economical, unless
you only run at 6 or so knots.

So? Do you always sail faster than 6 knots?

We generally go 7 to 7 1/2 and burn from somewhat less than 1 to 1 1/2
gph. At 6 kt we burn about 1/2 gph. If I slow down to idle, the boat
goes 4 1/2 and the engine actually pulls in hyrdocarbons from the air,
converts it to diesel fuel, and pumps it into the tanks

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote:

Well, if you doubled... or quadrupled... that, would it be a major
expense factor?



Maxprop wrote:

No, but $160 won't take you far in even a 35' CWB with a single Ford
Lehman 135.


It will if the bottoms's clean, engine in good shape, and you know how
to drive.


... We didn't cruise much this past year--no time and ****ty
weather--but still logged around 400 miles, mostly under power. The
CWB would have racked up a $250 diesel bill with the same distance at
8 kts.


Well, that's part of the problem. Going 8 knots is wasteful. At 7 knots
the fuel burn is about half, at 6 1/2 it's less than a quarter.



Ella can go at 8 knots with nothing more than a fair breeze.

Cheers

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What's with the advertisement at the bottom of your posts? They paying you
for that?

"Nav" wrote in message
...


DSK wrote:

Well, if you doubled... or quadrupled... that, would it be a major
expense factor?



Maxprop wrote:

No, but $160 won't take you far in even a 35' CWB with a single Ford
Lehman 135.


It will if the bottoms's clean, engine in good shape, and you know how to
drive.


... We didn't cruise much this past year--no time and ****ty
weather--but still logged around 400 miles, mostly under power. The CWB
would have racked up a $250 diesel bill with the same distance at 8 kts.


Well, that's part of the problem. Going 8 knots is wasteful. At 7 knots
the fuel burn is about half, at 6 1/2 it's less than a quarter.



Ella can go at 8 knots with nothing more than a fair breeze.

Cheers

------------ And now a word from our sponsor ------------------
For a quality usenet news server, try DNEWS, easy to install,
fast, efficient and reliable. For home servers or carrier class
installations with millions of users it will allow you to grow!
---- See http://netwinsite.com/sponsor/sponsor_dnews.htm ----

"Nav" wrote:

Ella can go at 8 knots with nothing more than a fair breeze.

Just curious, how much do you have to pay for a captain for you sailboat?

LP