Beneteau! You forgot to mention the Kia of sailboats.

CN


OzOne wrote in message ...
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 16:31:30 +1100, OzOne scribbled thusly:


No fan of the Frogs, I have to admit they build some pretty nice boats.
Nothing like the Americans, Canadians, Brits, Fins, or Swedes, mind you, but
good vessels nonetheless.

Max


That's got to be among the most ridiculous statements ever made here.
Dufour is one of the most respected names in yachting, as is Wauquiez,
Lagoon,Wanda,Multiplast, and yes, even Kirie and Jeanneau!

Oh, and I forgot Fountaine Pajot!


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Compared to your Yugo that is....

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message
...
Beneteau! You forgot to mention the Kia of sailboats.

CN


OzOne wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 16:31:30 +1100, OzOne scribbled thusly:


No fan of the Frogs, I have to admit they build some pretty nice boats.
Nothing like the Americans, Canadians, Brits, Fins, or Swedes, mind
you, but
good vessels nonetheless.

Max


That's got to be among the most ridiculous statements ever made here.
Dufour is one of the most respected names in yachting, as is Wauquiez,
Lagoon,Wanda,Multiplast, and yes, even Kirie and Jeanneau!

Oh, and I forgot Fountaine Pajot!


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Yup, you're clearly very upset with me. Why's that?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

"JG" wrote in message

What's the matter Max, getting upset again?

Don't ascribe your emotions to those of other posters. You're not capable
of making me upset. Bored, perhaps, but not angry.

Max

There are lots of Jr. Highs named the same also... I went to one of those.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scout" wrote in message
...
yes; there are Woodrow Wilson High Schools all over the place.
Scout

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
I suppose this is a different 'Wilson " than the one in Berks Co.?

Scotty


"Scout" wrote in message
...
"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
My son graduaed from there, when it was Wilson. 1969
ot

I didn't realize you had roots here Thom. I graduated Wilson in 74.
Small world.
Scout

"Maxprop" wrote

No, but $160 won't take you far in even a 35' CWB with a single Ford
Lehman
135. We didn't cruise much this past year--no time and ****ty
weather--but
still logged around 400 miles, mostly under power.

400 miles? I put that on in one trip, and I was sailing 98% of the
time.

Scotty

well he has passed on, that makes him as eligible as Woodrow.
Scout

"Maxprop" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Scout" wrote in message

yes; there are Woodrow Wilson High Schools all over the place.
Scout

Oh, that's what *Wilson* they were named after. I was almost positive it
was Tim The-tool-man Taylor's next door neighbor after whom they were
named.

Max

yeah, not sure why he rates so high.
Scout

"JG" wrote in message
...
There are lots of Jr. Highs named the same also... I went to one of those.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scout" wrote in message
...
yes; there are Woodrow Wilson High Schools all over the place.
Scout

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
I suppose this is a different 'Wilson " than the one in Berks Co.?

Scotty


"Scout" wrote in message
...
"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
My son graduaed from there, when it was Wilson. 1969
ot

I didn't realize you had roots here Thom. I graduated Wilson in 74.
Small world.
Scout

Doug,
I'm not one to put down people for having trawlers..i think they're nice and
have their place...but i can't imagine just taking the trawler out for an
afternoon spin...noisy....just not my thing...

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Well duh...who can afford all that diesel?


Maxprop wrote:
A single engine trawler, such as a Nordhavn 43 running at 8 kts., is
relatively economical to operate compared with, say, a semi-displacement
trawler, such as a Grand Banks 42 with twin 3208 Cats running at 14kts.
Then again I buy roughly $40 of diesel per annum.


Well, if you doubled... or quadrupled... that, would it be a major expense
factor? You'd have to cruise at least half time or more (depending on the
boat, I don't think of Nordhavens as particularly fuel-efficient) to spend
on fuel what you already spend on insurance and taxes. Add in a full-time
slip, and fuel becomes almost trivial.

I can tell you this- for what sails & running rigging cost, I can cruise a
long long way in our trawler. We've spent approx $150 on fuel this year,
making 2 cruises of 300+ miles plus going out almost every weekend, and
we've still got more than 1/2 full tanks... which is good, because now
we're running the heater almost full time...

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Well, if you doubled... or quadrupled... that, would it be a major expense
factor?


Maxprop wrote:
No, but $160 won't take you far in even a 35' CWB with a single Ford Lehman
135.

It will if the bottoms's clean, engine in good shape, and you know how
to drive.


... We didn't cruise much this past year--no time and ****ty weather--but
still logged around 400 miles, mostly under power. The CWB would have
racked up a $250 diesel bill with the same distance at 8 kts.

Well, that's part of the problem. Going 8 knots is wasteful. At 7 knots
the fuel burn is about half, at 6 1/2 it's less than a quarter.



... My friend's
35 CWB with twin 125 Lehmans burns about half a gallon per mile, and another
friend with a similar wood trawler with a single 135 Lehman burns about 1/4
gallon per mile.

That's still about twice what we burn.

... My boat gets about 8-10 miles per gallon, depending upon
wind and if assisted by sail.

Well, obviously sails don't burn fuel, but they are expensive and have a
limited life span. You could, if you were diligent, figure out how many
miles/$ you got out of sails, but you'd probably prefer to not know.




You'd have to cruise at least half time or more (depending on the boat, I
don't think of Nordhavens as particularly fuel-efficient) to spend on fuel
what you already spend on insurance and taxes. Add in a full-time slip,
and fuel becomes almost trivial.


Insurance: approx. $400 for my 34' Sea Sprite, taxes: approx. $60 per
year, not including fuel taxes or sales tax. Grand total of $500, including
fuel expense. If I cruised half the time, I'd have well over 2000 miles in
the trawler, and no trawler I'm familiar with can travel that distance on
$500. More like $1250.

Only if wasteful. I'd expect to burn half that. Part of it is that with
good fuel capacity, shallow draft, and patience, you can buy at the
cheapest places. For example, our last fuel buy was late summer and
$1.20/gal


... And why aren't Nordhavn's fuel efficient?

They're too beamy and they're dragging an extra prop through the water.

... A
Nordhavn 40 with a 140 Lugger

Which is about twice the power it'll ever realistically need.

or a 101 John Deere and 920 gallons of diesel
can cross the Atlantic, or travel roughly 2750 miles without refueling.

That's still not even 3 miles per gallon.

... Try
that in a Grand Banks with a pair of 3208s, not that GBs are offshore boats
by any stretch.

No twin is fuel efficient, but that's not the point. Twins are supposed
to be fast.



I can tell you this- for what sails & running rigging cost, I can cruise a
long long way in our trawler.


This is a typical obfuscation of the argument when powerboaters attempt to
compare costs with sailors. No one denies that both types of boats have
expenses, albeit quite different ones. The net costs typically average out
between the two types of boats of similar length and displacement. It's
*pay me now or pay me later.* But we were discussing fuel costs. Period.

Right

And it's my point that fuel simply isn't that great an expense, compared
with all the other costs of having & keeping & maintaining the boat.

And it wasn't my intent to denigrate powerboats or trawlers.

I didn't think you were, just making a point.



We've spent approx $150 on fuel this year, making 2 cruises of 300+ miles
plus going out almost every weekend, and we've still got more than 1/2 full
tanks... which is good, because now we're running the heater almost full
time...


What type of boat do you have?

http://community.webshots.com/album/63279185YQtgSA

1984 Sundowner 36

... What power?

Ford Lehman 135 with 2100 hrs, barely broken in. Again, twice as much
power as needed, but it has a nice prop.

... Sounds quite economical, unless
you only run at 6 or so knots.

So? Do you always sail faster than 6 knots?

We generally go 7 to 7 1/2 and burn from somewhat less than 1 to 1 1/2
gph. At 6 kt we burn about 1/2 gph. If I slow down to idle, the boat
goes 4 1/2 and the engine actually pulls in hyrdocarbons from the air,
converts it to diesel fuel, and pumps it into the tanks

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

That is because you are a discerning woman who appreciates the finer
things in life. A noisy smelly diesel engine on a slow boat is not one
of them eh?

Cheers

katysails wrote:

Doug,
I'm not one to put down people for having trawlers..i think they're nice and
have their place...but i can't imagine just taking the trawler out for an
afternoon spin...noisy....just not my thing...

"DSK" wrote in message
...

Well duh...who can afford all that diesel?

Maxprop wrote:

A single engine trawler, such as a Nordhavn 43 running at 8 kts., is
relatively economical to operate compared with, say, a semi-displacement
trawler, such as a Grand Banks 42 with twin 3208 Cats running at 14kts.
Then again I buy roughly $40 of diesel per annum.


Well, if you doubled... or quadrupled... that, would it be a major expense
factor? You'd have to cruise at least half time or more (depending on the
boat, I don't think of Nordhavens as particularly fuel-efficient) to spend
on fuel what you already spend on insurance and taxes. Add in a full-time
slip, and fuel becomes almost trivial.

I can tell you this- for what sails & running rigging cost, I can cruise a
long long way in our trawler. We've spent approx $150 on fuel this year,
making 2 cruises of 300+ miles plus going out almost every weekend, and
we've still got more than 1/2 full tanks... which is good, because now
we're running the heater almost full time...

Fresh Breezes- Doug King