jeffies, *obviously* you have never been THERE. now, shut the f**k up and go
to sleep.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 8/15/2004 7:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
"(b) A vessel of less than 20 meters in length or a sailing vessel shall
not impede the passage of a vessel that can safely navigate only
within a narrow channel or fairway."

there is NO narrow channel anywhere between eastern LIS and the Throgs Neck
Bridge at the western end. There IS a marked channel (wide) in several
places,
and there IS a marker buoy in deep water just about the TN Bridge, but that
is
it.


Its a good thing you don't actually sail, jaxie, you'd be a hazard to
everyone!

The approach to the TN Bridge is most certainly a "Narrow Channel" for some
vessels. Its a bit over 600 yards, which means that the "lane" in each
direction is about 200 yards. Are you claiming that all vessels that pass
through there can easily maneuver around any small boat traffic? Can you
tell
which vessels can't in the dark? Forcing a tow to make a serious alteration
of
speed or course would certainly be considered "impeding" if anything went
wrong.

[yuk]






From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 8/15/2004 7:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, it is my sailing waters for the last 12 years.

You claim that but then prove yourself a liar by not knowing which way the TN
bridge goes. Admit it, jaxie, you've never actually been on a boat, have
you?

You don't even have to go there, just look at a chart. But we know you don't
like to do that.



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, *obviously* you have never been THERE. now, shut the f**k up and go
to sleep.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 8/15/2004 7:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
"(b) A vessel of less than 20 meters in length or a sailing vessel shall
not impede the passage of a vessel that can safely navigate only
within a narrow channel or fairway."

there is NO narrow channel anywhere between eastern LIS and the Throgs Neck
Bridge at the western end. There IS a marked channel (wide) in several
places,
and there IS a marker buoy in deep water just about the TN Bridge, but that
is
it.


Its a good thing you don't actually sail, jaxie, you'd be a hazard to
everyone!

The approach to the TN Bridge is most certainly a "Narrow Channel" for some
vessels. Its a bit over 600 yards, which means that the "lane" in each
direction is about 200 yards. Are you claiming that all vessels that pass
through there can easily maneuver around any small boat traffic? Can you
tell
which vessels can't in the dark? Forcing a tow to make a serious alteration
of
speed or course would certainly be considered "impeding" if anything went
wrong.

cannot understand why they would choose to
approach so closely..

Same reason why a dog licks its' butt...because they can....
--
katysails

KATY!!!!!!!!???

we don't understand?? are you getting a little unruly tonite????????? poor
hubby. feeling ravished tonite. Will he respect himself in the morning???????

Running around an apartment is not proper exersize.

SV



Scotty, STOP THAT. gf will feel out of sorts.

the engine was idle and not in gear.
no steaming light required.
gf.

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Hey, umm... if the engine was started then you're a motorboat.
You have no status at that point, certainly not above a tug/tow.
I hope you were running your steaming light. Otherwise, you
could be cited.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"gonefishiing" wrote in message
...
agreed: for the sake of safety, i always stay away from bigger vessels
and
did so on this sail as well, until the tug/barge (TUB) changed course
for
the
final time. i was certain i was ok with both vessels until the barge
circled
around and was pointing at me again leaving me no evasive action to
take.

neither vessel produced any indication of warning that i was in the way
(lights / horn)

agreed again: i realize i should have hailed them on the radio and asked
for
they're intentions long before events became close.
definitely mistake no.1.
Sometimes i do this, sometimes i don't. it has always been a simple
assesment of whether i believe i will be out of the way. and i did
believe
this.
monitoring channel 13 for security calls is also something that i
usually
do
at night.
this night i did not.

the engine was started and idling by in case i needed it.
in regards to avoiding a collision, given the speed differentials of the
vessels, i don't believe the engine would have made any difference in
this
situation.
in regards to the regs: it would have converted me to a vessel under
power
and i think (?) changed my status to some extent in relation to the 2
other
vessels. not that my decision was based on that or that it really does
not
matter once fiberglass contacts steel.
the point being i was making good speed in good wind.

given that the tug/barge changed course twice: was he obligated to give
way?
or is this a "fluid" problem that needs to be constantly
reassessed?--which
means always stay out of his way no matter what courses he chooses?
felt like a cat and mouse sort of thing.

as a technical point: their seems to be a difference between an
inablitiy
to
maneuver because of draft, in a particular direction--versus the general
maneuverablity of a vessel because of length/speed/wieght.
i am not sure these 2 issues are connected by the regs.
as i understand it, constrained by draft is designed to prevent a vessel
from running aground.
in this regard there was no danger to the freighter who had plenty of
room
to the south, which was his general route.
the tub could not turn towards the north to cross in front of me because
of
draft and speed issues, and he could not turn south because of the
freighter, which left him pointed at me.

my guess is not i or the freighter anticipated a circling tub.





"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Not knowing the area, I have a couple of comments.

I'm not sure you were stand on, given that if there is
any doubt about draft constraint. Also, a tug and
a barge have status in most cases, but again, I don't
know the area.

Also, why not hail them and ask their intentions?

Finally, while sailing does give you stand on status
in many circumstances, it also limits your ability to
take evasive action. Perhaps it would have been
prudent to start the engine?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"gonefishiing" wrote in message
...
out for a late night sail last week, which i do a lot of.
western edge of long island sound, ny
on a port tack heading southwest towards the throgs neck bridge.
slack tide.
particulary dark night.
full main and jib set
15 knots wind

keeping a vigilant eye out for ships, i spot a black form against
the
lights
of the city in front of me and realize it is a tug and barge and i
also
realize (in the absence of visible nav lights) his small profile
means
he
is
headed right at me and steaming.

i decide to tack the boat around 180 degrees and give him some
room........assuming (correctly) his course has 2 possiblities--he
is
going
to continue eastbound in the sound or he is going to turn north
towards
eastchester bay to anchor his barge (partial mistake no.1?). he
turns
northeast towards the barge anchorage, paralleling my course and i
am
east
of him and the barge anchorage- out of his way.

towards the east i spot another ship (freighter) steaming westbound
for
the
gate. he is north of the lane that most of the commerical ships take
for
the
bridge. and a quick visual calculation tells me i can cross his bow
without
problem and also because he needs to turn behind my stern to set
his
course
for the bridge (and soon!) (partial mistake no.2?)

they are both aware that i am here-- million candle power lights
illuminating sails had a way of doing that. (my light)

1: the freighter, westbound, is not turning although i have crossed
his
bow--only slightly and he'll end up passing beyond me, far too close
and
moving fast.
2: the tug/barge decides to steer a circle around the barge
anchorage
and
end up eastbound again --off my port beam and close enough that i
can
see
the pilot. he has slowed down significantly at this point as i am
now
between both vessels. (on a starboard tack)

3: they both passed "safely" at my stern, to the south of me the
freigher
first, the tug next.

this was really too close for comfort, and i had my hands full
sailing.
not to negate my responsiblity, i think constrained by draft here is
a
relative term, if it even applies. they each had a mile of room to
the
south
(behind me) to manuveur and cannot understand why they would choose
to
approach so closely, as my actions were clear, my course was
appropriate
and
consistent and meant to give each a wide berth

and for whatever it may be worth, i think everyone took the correct
actions
i believe i was the stand on vessel
the freighter was 2nd in pecking order
the tug/barge gave way

what would you have done differently?

gf.

This is one of those grey areas where
you'll never get an answer from the CG.



ain't no "grey area" at all. your engine is running you are a powerboat,
neutral or not.

"gonefishiing" wrote in message ...

what would you have done differently?

Talked to them on the VHF and made passing agreements.
Cussed out the tug for not displaying proper light.


Joe



gf.

the engine was idle and not in gear.
no steaming light required.
gf.


bull****. your engine is running, you are poerboat. period.

You don't even have to go there, just look at a chart.

I have been there.

so many times I don't even have to guess where the "Cuban Ledge" is.