Kerry only served 4 mo. in Vietnam and he pinned on 3 Purple Hearts.

Sounds like Magnet Ass the Raven pilot. But he kept flying.

Capt. American

Capt.American wrote:
Kerry only served 4 mo. in Vietnam and he pinned on 3 Purple Hearts.

Sounds like bad luck all right. OTOH the PBRs were right in the thick of
it. They covered more area and interdicted more VC traffic (there are a
lot more rivers in Viet Nam than roads) than most ground units would.

Some years ago, by random chance I picked up 'My Father, My Son' by Elmo
Zumwalt Jr and Sr. It was a riveting book, one of the few I have read in
my life that I literally could not put down. He gives a very good and
careful account of river combat in Viet Nam.


Sounds like Magnet Ass the Raven pilot.

LOL now there's a nickname that nobody wants.

Now tell us again why you feel compelled to repeat all this slander
propogated by Bush & Cheney Inc? Are you worried that they might lose
the upcoming election if you don't bust a gut trying to make Kerry look bad?

Regards
Doug King

Better than The Cheater and Lying Asshole from Kennebunkport via Crawford.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt.American" wrote in message
om...
Kerry only served 4 mo. in Vietnam and he pinned on 3 Purple Hearts.

Sounds like Magnet Ass the Raven pilot. But he kept flying.

Capt. American

DSK wrote in message .. .
Capt.American wrote:
Kerry only served 4 mo. in Vietnam and he pinned on 3 Purple Hearts.

Sounds like bad luck all right. OTOH the PBRs were right in the thick of
it. They covered more area and interdicted more VC traffic (there are a
lot more rivers in Viet Nam than roads) than most ground units would.

Agreeded but 3 in 4 mo, come on. And with only 4 mo in country he
never had the time to learn anything. Sounds like a green recruit
going gung ho ****ting his pants pops of a few thousand ma duce rounds
then runs home. PT 109 it was not. Tell me about the boat and crew you
knew like the back of your hand in 4 mo.


Some years ago, by random chance I picked up 'My Father, My Son' by Elmo
Zumwalt Jr and Sr. It was a riveting book, one of the few I have read in
my life that I literally could not put down. He gives a very good and
careful account of river combat in Viet Nam.

I'll check it out. Sounds like my kind of book.



Sounds like Magnet Ass the Raven pilot.

LOL now there's a nickname that nobody wants.

Yeah he was one of those Laos CIA pilots, he was a fac shot down to
many times


Now tell us again why you feel compelled to repeat all this slander
propogated by Bush & Cheney Inc?

Is it slander if it's the truth?


Are you worried that they might lose
the upcoming election if you don't bust a gut trying to make Kerry look bad?


No not really. All I want is a president that will follow thru and
squash
any terrorist group that even sneezes towards the USA. Someone that
will spit in the face of terrorist demands. Not someone that is
whissey wasshey and dont know where the fight is.

Capt. American




Capt. American


Regards
Doug King

What happened? Did you miss the first 11 steps in your 12 step?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt.American" wrote in message
om...
DSK wrote in message
.. .
Capt.American wrote:
Kerry only served 4 mo. in Vietnam and he pinned on 3 Purple Hearts.

Sounds like bad luck all right. OTOH the PBRs were right in the thick of
it. They covered more area and interdicted more VC traffic (there are a
lot more rivers in Viet Nam than roads) than most ground units would.

Agreeded but 3 in 4 mo, come on. And with only 4 mo in country he
never had the time to learn anything. Sounds like a green recruit
going gung ho ****ting his pants pops of a few thousand ma duce rounds
then runs home. PT 109 it was not. Tell me about the boat and crew you
knew like the back of your hand in 4 mo.


Some years ago, by random chance I picked up 'My Father, My Son' by Elmo
Zumwalt Jr and Sr. It was a riveting book, one of the few I have read in
my life that I literally could not put down. He gives a very good and
careful account of river combat in Viet Nam.

I'll check it out. Sounds like my kind of book.



Sounds like Magnet Ass the Raven pilot.

LOL now there's a nickname that nobody wants.

Yeah he was one of those Laos CIA pilots, he was a fac shot down to
many times


Now tell us again why you feel compelled to repeat all this slander
propogated by Bush & Cheney Inc?

Is it slander if it's the truth?


Are you worried that they might lose
the upcoming election if you don't bust a gut trying to make Kerry look
bad?


No not really. All I want is a president that will follow thru and
squash
any terrorist group that even sneezes towards the USA. Someone that
will spit in the face of terrorist demands. Not someone that is
whissey wasshey and dont know where the fight is.

Capt. American




Capt. American


Regards
Doug King

"Capt.American" wrote...
Tell me about the boat and crew you
knew like the back of your hand in 4 mo.

Shucks, any boat I've raced... takes only a couple of afternoons.



Some years ago, by random chance I picked up 'My Father, My Son'
by Elmo
Zumwalt Jr and Sr. It was a riveting book, one of the few I have
read in
my life that I literally could not put down. He gives a very good and
careful account of river combat in Viet Nam.


I'll check it out. Sounds like my kind of book.

I should warn you that Elmo Zumwalt Junior died of cancer due to his
exposure to Agent Orange, which his father ordered sprayed all over the
PBR operating zones. About half the book is about his childhood and his
dying, from the point of view of both men. Back when I was in the Navy,
people made fun of Adm. Zumwalt, but after reading this book I will not.





Now tell us again why you feel compelled to repeat all this slander
propogated by Bush & Cheney Inc?


Is it slander if it's the truth?

Is it? Kerry went to Viet Nam and got shot at. Bush went AWOL (in
between DUIs) and lied about it. Simple fact. Frankly I don't believe
anything either party says, but bear inmind that Bush & Cheney Inc have
at least 5X the advertising budget.




... All I want is a president that will follow thru and
squash
any terrorist group that even sneezes towards the USA. Someone that
will spit in the face of terrorist demands. Not someone that is
whissey wasshey and dont know where the fight is.

Considering what a chicken**** Bush was on Sept 11th, at first not
reacting at all, then running away and hiding, and then lying about it,
I don't see how you think he is going to ever do any of those things. At
least Kerry performed under fire, whatever you may think of his actions
since then.

DSK

DSK wrote in message .. .
"Capt.American" wrote...
Tell me about the boat and crew you
knew like the back of your hand in 4 mo.

Shucks, any boat I've raced... takes only a couple of afternoons.


Perhaps a sunfish. But I doubt it. I've sailed several boat for
years and never did feel that I could not learn more. Always a way to
get just a little more out of her.



Some years ago, by random chance I picked up 'My Father, My Son'
by Elmo
Zumwalt Jr and Sr. It was a riveting book, one of the few I have
read in
my life that I literally could not put down. He gives a very good and
careful account of river combat in Viet Nam.


I'll check it out. Sounds like my kind of book.

I should warn you that Elmo Zumwalt Junior died of cancer due to his
exposure to Agent Orange, which his father ordered sprayed all over the
PBR operating zones.

Hind site is always 20/20. Im sure Elmo Sr was dupped by the dupont
clan as others were at the time.



About half the book is about his childhood and his
dying, from the point of view of both men.


Back when I was in the Navy,
people made fun of Adm. Zumwalt, but after reading this book I will not.


Any body that served honorably deserves respect even Kerry.

It sure would be nice to have the chance to elect a President that
was not born with a silver spoon in his mouth.




Now tell us again why you feel compelled to repeat all this slander
propogated by Bush & Cheney Inc?


Is it slander if it's the truth?

Is it? Kerry went to Viet Nam and got shot at. Bush went AWOL (in
between DUIs) and lied about it. Simple fact. Frankly I don't believe
anything either party says, but bear inmind that Bush & Cheney Inc have
at least 5X the advertising budget.


That IMO is the big problem with politics today. Money should be
taken out of the equation. All persons nominated for president should
be given the same amount of money to wage a campian. Anyone caught
taking special interest money should be charged with a crime.






... All I want is a president that will follow thru and
squash
any terrorist group that even sneezes towards the USA. Someone that
will spit in the face of terrorist demands. Not someone that is
whissey wasshey and dont know where the fight is.

Considering what a chicken**** Bush was on Sept 11th, at first not
reacting at all, then running away and hiding, and then lying about it,
I don't see how you think he is going to ever do any of those things. At
least Kerry performed under fire, whatever you may think of his actions
since then.



Performance should be judged against all the preformed. Many Vets
spent several tours received purple hearts and chose to stay and
finish the job and cover their buddies back. Kerry IMO was trying to
become president even back then. He stuck his neck out and found out
that the real world is not staffed with servents in white coats
bringing you drinks on deck of a PBR. He ventured were
the common man was getting killed or was killing every day and he
coulden't hang. Thats what worries me. If he become president and we
have to continue a fierce fight against terrorist and terrorist
supporting states will he be able to hang in there to the bitter end.
Regardless of the cost. We have all seen what low down dirty sticking
MF terrorist are and there willingness to kill and we must have a
leader that is willing to kill them before they kill us. Vietnam had
some ruthless **** going on but it is nothing on the scale of
ruthlessness that ossama is willing to sink to. We need to stomp and
stomp hard. No more sucker punches needed for me to get the message,
**** I got the message when the USS Cole was attacked. I hate to say
it but I think this war has just begun.

Do you think Kerry will stick it out, or will he side with the Bagdad
Janes of the world and walk down that path he walked before?.


Capt. American



DSK

"Capt.American" wrote...
Tell me about the boat and crew you
knew like the back of your hand in 4 mo.

Shucks, any boat I've raced... takes only a couple of afternoons.



Perhaps a sunfish. But I doubt it. I've sailed several boat for
years and never did feel that I could not learn more.

I guess it depends on what you mean by "know like the back of your
hand." Usually after an hour or so I feel that I can sail the boat at
least 90% as well as anybody. Of course that hour is work (but is also
fun). For example, last time I went out for "practice" with a local PHRF
racer they had the idea that just sailing up and down the river,
occasionally with the spinnaker up, was "practice." I said, let's do
this for real. We worked out way upwind, with eyes rigorously on compass
& water & wind, working out the best ways to tack and then throwing some
quick tacks at the crew. Then we did about eight or ten spinnaker
hoists, working on the fastest ways to get it set & pulling. It turned
out we didn't have time to work on douses (which IMHO is actually more
important in most races). When we got back, the owner thanked me
sincerely and the rest of the crew said they felt whipped.


.... Always a way to
get just a little more out of her.

If you're a rock star sailmaker with a million bucks, yeah you can
squeeze 0.001 knot more out of anything. But most of the time people
cannot apply the basics consistently, that is where the gains are made
and that is one thing I am good at (not to brag, it's the classic
engineer's methodical approach that pays off... drives most people up
the wall).

However, to know absolutely every nuance of how the boat sails under
every possible condition takes more time, as well as knowing all the
wiring and all the plumbing and every inch of the structure etc etc.

I should warn you that Elmo Zumwalt Junior died of cancer due to his
exposure to Agent Orange, which his father ordered sprayed all over the
PBR operating zones.


Hind site is always 20/20. Im sure Elmo Sr was dupped by the dupont
clan as others were at the time.

Well, he had a bit to say about the politics of running that war, in
fact that's how he ended up as CNO. He was a candidate, and invited to a
meeting with several other really top brass, and they discussed how the
Navy could contribute to winning the war. He came away shocked at the
lack of strategic insight at the top. But he took the job.

As for Agent Orange, he explained that quite clearly... the VC, NLF, and
NVA used the rivers for shipping weapons; the Navy had a way to stop
them. But it was costly because the rivers with dense jungle canopy were
perfect spots for ambush. Take away the lush jungle greenery, presto no
more ambushes. He said that even knowing what it cost him personally, he
would do the same thing again in the same circumstances. It is rather
cold logic.





It sure would be nice to have the chance to elect a President that
was not born with a silver spoon in his mouth.

Agreed, but I don't see it happening in the near future. Getting into
politics is a big money game. Clinton was the poorest President since
Truman. Swarzenegger rose from pretty humble beginnings. John Edwards
did too but got where he is as an ambulance chasing malpractice
attorney. He has a lot of powerful enemies and will be a major barrier
to a successful administration if he stays involved, although he sure
seems to be a champion vote-getter & rabble-rouser.




... Thats what worries me. If he become president and we
have to continue a fierce fight against terrorist and terrorist
supporting states will he be able to hang in there to the bitter end.
Regardless of the cost. We have all seen what low down dirty sticking
MF terrorist are and there willingness to kill and we must have a
leader that is willing to kill them before they kill us. Vietnam had
some ruthless **** going on but it is nothing on the scale of
ruthlessness that ossama is willing to sink to. We need to stomp and
stomp hard. No more sucker punches needed for me to get the message,
**** I got the message when the USS Cole was attacked. I hate to say
it but I think this war has just begun.

Where have you been? This war has been going on since the 1970s if not
the 1940s. And the current administration is doing some stomping, but
not in a constructive way. I agree that proven enemies should be taken
out ASAP, but the facts are that Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are
supporting more terrorist organizations that Afghanistan (a very very
poor country) and Iraq. They are targets of convenience, a chance for
the military-industrial complex to make lots of money.

If you want to end the war on terrorism, we need to do two things... 1-
get back on track for a realistic peace between Israel and the
Palestinians and 2- root out the money trail and go after the deep
pockets, whoever they are. Bush & Cheney Inc is messing up on both
fronts, big time. By backing Israel to the hilt, no matter what, we
become bigger targets for increasing numbers of fanatics; and by
allowing the friends of rich & powerful oil businessmen to support
terrorist groups, we are financing our worst enemies through our energy
dependency and sending the message that we do not have either the brains
nor the willpower to find & kill them.

Killing the wrong people, such as 10,000+ Iraqi civilians (every one a
potential ally), will only make the situation worse.

The USS Cole was bad enough, but look up the USS Stark and the USS
Vincennes incidents.


Do you think Kerry will stick it out, or will he side with the Bagdad
Janes of the world and walk down that path he walked before?.

I think that almost anybody, with the possible exception of Jerry
Falwell, would make a better President than George Bush Jr. I did not
think much of his father, but Bush Sr was twice the President and five
times the man his son is. Kerry would not be my first choice but he
can't help but be an imporvement. The question is, given Bush & Cheney's
massive advertising budget, can they fool (or just distract) enough of
the people who will actually go out & vote?

Regards
Doug King

Capt.American wrote:

I'll check it out. Sounds like my kind of book.

I should warn you that Elmo Zumwalt Junior died of cancer due to his
exposure to Agent Orange, which his father ordered sprayed all over the
PBR operating zones.


Hind site is always 20/20. Im sure Elmo Sr was dupped by the dupont
clan as others were at the time.



Um, not duPont, Agent Orange, (largely dioxin) was manufactured by Dow Chemicals, (Monsanto).

Cheers
Marty

------------ And now a word from our sponsor ---------------------
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Wow, a war hero....

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:35:13 -0500, Martin Baxter said:

Um, not duPont, Agent Orange, (largely dioxin) was manufactured by Dow
Chemicals, (Monsanto).

Actually, I believe it was manufactured by several producers. The Agent
Orange litigation dragged on for years, and included a variety of
companies
as defendants, including Uniroyal Chemical which my then firm represented.

Dave
S/V Good Fortune
CS27