On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 16:14:30 -0500, DSK wrote:

Bobsprit wrote:

My list...while avoiding very, very old boats....

Bristol 27

Shucks, what about a Bristol 30? Or a Tartan 27?


Catalina 27

Malarkey. Not on anybody's list of "best" unless you gotta go with a
crowd. They are widely available and better than some.


Cape Dory 25 (70s model)
C&C 25 (70s)

Why not a newer 27?


Pearson 25

Too small. The Cape Dory 25 is barely a weekender. And rather than
avoiding "very very old" what you want to avoid is "poorly maintained"
boats. It would be better to have a properly kept 35 year old boat
than a beat-up and neglected 5 year old one. Of course, that assume
knowledge about such things...

Here's a nice little heavy displacement English design
http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/0/8/65557108.htm

A Seafarer... smaller sistership to one a friend of ours has
http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/2/0/66440920.htm

To call this boat 31' is a bit deceptive, IIRC about 5' of that is the
clipper bow. But they are really cool boats and capable small
cruisers.
http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/1/8/62482218.htm

Islander 30... a Bob Perry design, sails well and properly built
http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/7/6/33415976.htm

Bong! You are thinking of the Islander 28. I agree the 28 would be
worth looking at, though. Bob Finch designed the 30 and I enjoyed
that boat and there are quite a number of freshwater boats available.
I owned an Islander 30 for 9 years and had a lot of great times in
that boat, in spite of my limited math skills

My family had a protoype of one of these... now *this* is a great
boat... actually I'm bummed to see one pop up at this price...
http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/8/2/45636682.htm

Here's a boat I don't like all that much myself, but others have raved
about
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...oat_id=1189436

I was a little surprised to see a Sabre 28 pop up on the listings in
this price range. Also a Scampi 30 which is really a racing boat but
is certainly capable of being cruised.

There are a lot of great deals around on Sabre 28s. I know of one
that is about to come on the market in the Detroit area. 2 owner,
freshwater, recently repowered, in great shape for $23k. A LOT of
value for not much money.


Other boats that may pop up are the Morgan 30 (the CCA model, not the
OI) or for that matter, the Morgan 27 which I mentioned just the other
day. There are also Tanzers, Ericsons, Hughes, Rhodes, Paceship,
Dufour.... Any of these is likely to be better built and better
performing than a Catalina, Pearson, Cal, Columbia, or Hunter of
similar age & condition. IMHO the mass-produced boat are average, not
built for serious sailing (except for racing as one-designs), and
while many of them are nice boats, they are not "great."

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Islander 30... a Bob Perry design, sails well and properly built

felton wrote:

Bong! You are thinking of the Islander 28. I agree the 28 would be
worth looking at, though. Bob Finch designed the 30 and I enjoyed
that boat and there are quite a number of freshwater boats available.
I owned an Islander 30 for 9 years and had a lot of great times in
that boat, in spite of my limited math skills

Oops... sorry. It's hard to keep track of all the boats Bob Perry designed. I
apologize for the mistake, I certainly wasn't trying to take any credit away from
Bob Finch who also designed a lot of good boats... mostly racier ones like the
Mirages IIRC.

We have some friends who just finished up a fairly lengthy cruise on an Islander
30... and then went out and took second in class in a good size regatta. I'd
consider that credentials for being a 'great' boat!



I was a little surprised to see a Sabre 28 pop up on the listings in
this price range.

There are a lot of great deals around on Sabre 28s. I know of one
that is about to come on the market in the Detroit area. 2 owner,
freshwater, recently repowered, in great shape for $23k. A LOT of
value for not much money.

Yes, that's why I was surprised to see one for under $10K. I wonder if it's
trashed.

I just felt compelled to post a list of boats that would be quite good for
cruising, that one wouldn't necessarily be able to find 3 for sale within 5 miles
of ones house. That seems to be Boobsie's definition of 'great.' And Jax's
definition seems to be... well, I'm not sure but it seems to include being very
heavy, slow, and recommended by legions of salty-seeming wanna-bees.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

And Jax's
definition seems to be... well, I'm not sure but it seems to include being
very
heavy, slow,

I define "cruising" as being on large bodies of water, not motoring from one
anchorage to the next as might interest an owner of a spacious bay sailor.

and recommended by legions of salty-seeming wanna-bees.

few people think of John Vigor as a "salty-seeming wanna-bee", even though
motor/anchor/baysailors often define as such anyone who pulls sails up and
leave sight of land for more than 60 minutes.

JAXAshby wrote:

I define "cruising" as being on large bodies of water,

Good grief, that could include Boobsie...

not motoring from one
anchorage to the next as might interest an owner of a spacious bay sailor.

Until I got a motorboat I very rarely 'motored from one anchorage to the next.'
However you seem to have an irrational grudge against roomy comfortable boats.
Just one of many irrational things about you, prob'ly.




and recommended by legions of salty-seeming wanna-bees.

few people think of John Vigor as a "salty-seeming wanna-bee", even though
motor/anchor/baysailors often define as such anyone who pulls sails up and
leave sight of land for more than 60 minutes.

Uh, no. I would define a "salty-seeming wanna-be" a person such as yourself, who
raves about the seaworthiness of boats he's never sailed, and has ambitions to
sail long distances in rough weather to just prove how manly they are, and
somehow never actually goes sailing.

John Vigor isn't a wanna-be. But a lot of people who never leave their slips
rave about the seaworthiness of some boats, including Cape Dories. Not the boats
fault... but that doesn't make it any better either. I happen to like Cape
Dories... but since I have really sailed them, I recognize that 1- they are
quite small inside, with limited stowage and 2- they are slow. They are nice
looking boats and quite solidly built. But most of the folks I know who have
really cruised them (including a few passages) have sold them to get bigger
boats... oftne the next size bigger Cape Dory.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

most of the folks I know who have
really cruised them (including a few passages) have sold them to get bigger
boats... oftne the next size bigger Cape Dory.

this is true of most every boat owner who feels he has cruised his boat, except
Hunter owners. They give up the life or get a different boat. Hunter 19
owners never cruise at all.

btw dougies, wanna tell us how much more space a Hunter 19 has compared to a
Folkboat? How about passage miles difference between the two?

JAXAshby wrote:

btw dougies, wanna tell us how much more space a Hunter 19 has compared to a
Folkboat?

Actually, the H-19 does have more room. Probably about the same stowage.
Here's a test... go aboard a Folkboat and invite two couples (average sized
adults) to sit in the salon and have hot drinks. If you can lean back, relax, and
not have somebody elses elbows or knees jutting into you, then the room is at least
comparable.

However, I've been in a Folkboat and I don't see this happening...


How about passage miles difference between the two?

I calculated a few years back that we'd sailed 960 miles in the Hunter, and made a
rough figure that we'd trailered it 15,000. We've probably at least doubled that
since.

But of course, by your definition Hunter 19s never cruise. Which of course leaves
on wondering how you explain this

http://community.webshots.com/album/37908878jiBMxv

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

there have it folks, another owner of a flyweight baysailor proclaiming to one
and all that space, space, space and more space defines a boat's capability to
sail.

btw dougies, wanna tell us how much more space a Hunter 19 has compared to
a
Folkboat?

Actually, the H-19 does have more room. Probably about the same stowage.
Here's a test... go aboard a Folkboat and invite two couples (average sized
adults) to sit in the salon and have hot drinks. If you can lean back, relax,
and
not have somebody elses elbows or knees jutting into you, then the room is at
least
comparable.

However, I've been in a Folkboat and I don't see this happening...


How about passage miles difference between the two?

I calculated a few years back that we'd sailed 960 miles in the Hunter, and
made a
rough figure that we'd trailered it 15,000. We've probably at least doubled
that
since.

But of course, by your definition Hunter 19s never cruise. Which of course
leaves
on wondering how you explain this

http://community.webshots.com/album/37908878jiBMxv

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

You will also have trouble finding a folkboat under $10,000 that isn't junk.
"DSK" wrote in message
...
JAXAshby wrote:

btw dougies, wanna tell us how much more space a Hunter 19 has compared
to a
Folkboat?

Actually, the H-19 does have more room. Probably about the same stowage.
Here's a test... go aboard a Folkboat and invite two couples (average
sized
adults) to sit in the salon and have hot drinks. If you can lean back,
relax, and
not have somebody elses elbows or knees jutting into you, then the room is
at least
comparable.

However, I've been in a Folkboat and I don't see this happening...


How about passage miles difference between the two?

I calculated a few years back that we'd sailed 960 miles in the Hunter,
and made a
rough figure that we'd trailered it 15,000. We've probably at least
doubled that
since.

But of course, by your definition Hunter 19s never cruise. Which of course
leaves
on wondering how you explain this

http://community.webshots.com/album/37908878jiBMxv

Fresh Breezes- Doug King