On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 16:14:30 -0500, DSK wrote:

Bobsprit wrote:

My list...while avoiding very, very old boats....

Bristol 27

Shucks, what about a Bristol 30? Or a Tartan 27?


Catalina 27

Malarkey. Not on anybody's list of "best" unless you gotta go with a
crowd. They are widely available and better than some.


Cape Dory 25 (70s model)
C&C 25 (70s)

Why not a newer 27?


Pearson 25

Too small. The Cape Dory 25 is barely a weekender. And rather than
avoiding "very very old" what you want to avoid is "poorly maintained"
boats. It would be better to have a properly kept 35 year old boat
than a beat-up and neglected 5 year old one. Of course, that assume
knowledge about such things...

Here's a nice little heavy displacement English design
http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/0/8/65557108.htm

A Seafarer... smaller sistership to one a friend of ours has
http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/2/0/66440920.htm

To call this boat 31' is a bit deceptive, IIRC about 5' of that is the
clipper bow. But they are really cool boats and capable small
cruisers.
http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/1/8/62482218.htm

Islander 30... a Bob Perry design, sails well and properly built
http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/7/6/33415976.htm

Bong! You are thinking of the Islander 28. I agree the 28 would be
worth looking at, though. Bob Finch designed the 30 and I enjoyed
that boat and there are quite a number of freshwater boats available.
I owned an Islander 30 for 9 years and had a lot of great times in
that boat, in spite of my limited math skills

My family had a protoype of one of these... now *this* is a great
boat... actually I'm bummed to see one pop up at this price...
http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/8/2/45636682.htm

Here's a boat I don't like all that much myself, but others have raved
about
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...oat_id=1189436

I was a little surprised to see a Sabre 28 pop up on the listings in
this price range. Also a Scampi 30 which is really a racing boat but
is certainly capable of being cruised.

There are a lot of great deals around on Sabre 28s. I know of one
that is about to come on the market in the Detroit area. 2 owner,
freshwater, recently repowered, in great shape for $23k. A LOT of
value for not much money.


Other boats that may pop up are the Morgan 30 (the CCA model, not the
OI) or for that matter, the Morgan 27 which I mentioned just the other
day. There are also Tanzers, Ericsons, Hughes, Rhodes, Paceship,
Dufour.... Any of these is likely to be better built and better
performing than a Catalina, Pearson, Cal, Columbia, or Hunter of
similar age & condition. IMHO the mass-produced boat are average, not
built for serious sailing (except for racing as one-designs), and
while many of them are nice boats, they are not "great."

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Islander 30... a Bob Perry design, sails well and properly built

felton wrote:

Bong! You are thinking of the Islander 28. I agree the 28 would be
worth looking at, though. Bob Finch designed the 30 and I enjoyed
that boat and there are quite a number of freshwater boats available.
I owned an Islander 30 for 9 years and had a lot of great times in
that boat, in spite of my limited math skills

Oops... sorry. It's hard to keep track of all the boats Bob Perry designed. I
apologize for the mistake, I certainly wasn't trying to take any credit away from
Bob Finch who also designed a lot of good boats... mostly racier ones like the
Mirages IIRC.

We have some friends who just finished up a fairly lengthy cruise on an Islander
30... and then went out and took second in class in a good size regatta. I'd
consider that credentials for being a 'great' boat!



I was a little surprised to see a Sabre 28 pop up on the listings in
this price range.

There are a lot of great deals around on Sabre 28s. I know of one
that is about to come on the market in the Detroit area. 2 owner,
freshwater, recently repowered, in great shape for $23k. A LOT of
value for not much money.

Yes, that's why I was surprised to see one for under $10K. I wonder if it's
trashed.

I just felt compelled to post a list of boats that would be quite good for
cruising, that one wouldn't necessarily be able to find 3 for sale within 5 miles
of ones house. That seems to be Boobsie's definition of 'great.' And Jax's
definition seems to be... well, I'm not sure but it seems to include being very
heavy, slow, and recommended by legions of salty-seeming wanna-bees.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

And Jax's
definition seems to be... well, I'm not sure but it seems to include being
very
heavy, slow,

I define "cruising" as being on large bodies of water, not motoring from one
anchorage to the next as might interest an owner of a spacious bay sailor.

and recommended by legions of salty-seeming wanna-bees.

few people think of John Vigor as a "salty-seeming wanna-bee", even though
motor/anchor/baysailors often define as such anyone who pulls sails up and
leave sight of land for more than 60 minutes.

JAXAshby wrote:

I define "cruising" as being on large bodies of water,

Good grief, that could include Boobsie...

not motoring from one
anchorage to the next as might interest an owner of a spacious bay sailor.

Until I got a motorboat I very rarely 'motored from one anchorage to the next.'
However you seem to have an irrational grudge against roomy comfortable boats.
Just one of many irrational things about you, prob'ly.




and recommended by legions of salty-seeming wanna-bees.

few people think of John Vigor as a "salty-seeming wanna-bee", even though
motor/anchor/baysailors often define as such anyone who pulls sails up and
leave sight of land for more than 60 minutes.

Uh, no. I would define a "salty-seeming wanna-be" a person such as yourself, who
raves about the seaworthiness of boats he's never sailed, and has ambitions to
sail long distances in rough weather to just prove how manly they are, and
somehow never actually goes sailing.

John Vigor isn't a wanna-be. But a lot of people who never leave their slips
rave about the seaworthiness of some boats, including Cape Dories. Not the boats
fault... but that doesn't make it any better either. I happen to like Cape
Dories... but since I have really sailed them, I recognize that 1- they are
quite small inside, with limited stowage and 2- they are slow. They are nice
looking boats and quite solidly built. But most of the folks I know who have
really cruised them (including a few passages) have sold them to get bigger
boats... oftne the next size bigger Cape Dory.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

I am familiar with the Folkboat, the Albin Vega and the Kigns Cruiser.

The Folkboats are great boats for what they are. They are not fast by
modern standards, but they sail very well. They are very seaworthy if
you consider the hull, but they don't have a selfbailing cockpit and
the bottom of companionway is almost level with the deep
cockpitfloor,. This makes the relation between the cockpit and the
cabin very good. The cabin is by modern standards rather small. For
costal cruising I think it is a nice boat if you can live with the
limitid acomodation. A nice boat for a 2 person 2 week cruise if the
sailors are youger than 50.
I like the boat.
Some versions have a selfbailing cockpit and a modified companionway
entrance. These modifications makes it a "go everywere boat" but it
doesent change the acomodation, and the freebord is a bit low for
oceansailing I think.

The IF (International Folkboat) is a GRP carvel folkboat with a
selfbailing cockpit. It has a "romier but more cramped" interior and a
aluminum mast with a larger foretriancle and a spinacer.

I also think that the vega is rather ugly, but for a cheap
masproduction boat of its's age it is actualy a fairly nice boat. I
does not have many vices, and if your looking for a cheap boat that
combines a certain practicallity with fairly predictable sailing
carecteristics It might be a good choise.

The Kings Cruiser 29 has more room than the former, but are small
compared to modern 29' cruisingboats. It could probably be sailed
almost anywere, but it is not a fast boat, just slightly faster or
than the Folkboat. I think they are fairly well build. A good
valur/price ratio I think, even if you probably could not get one over
here for 10,000 $. If you can get one for 10.000, and it is in decent
shape I think it would be a bargain (though i'm not very familiar with
US-prices).


"DSK" skrev i en meddelelse
...
Bobsprit wrote:

My list...while avoiding very, very old boats....

Bristol 27

Shucks, what about a Bristol 30? Or a Tartan 27?


Catalina 27

Malarkey. Not on anybody's list of "best" unless you gotta go with a
crowd. They are widely available and better than some.


Cape Dory 25 (70s model)
C&C 25 (70s)

Why not a newer 27?


Pearson 25

Too small. The Cape Dory 25 is barely a weekender. And rather than
avoiding "very very old" what you want to avoid is "poorly
maintained"
boats. It would be better to have a properly kept 35 year old boat
than a beat-up and neglected 5 year old one. Of course, that assume
knowledge about such things...

Here's a nice little heavy displacement English design
http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/0/8/65557108.htm

A Seafarer... smaller sistership to one a friend of ours has
http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/2/0/66440920.htm

To call this boat 31' is a bit deceptive, IIRC about 5' of that is
the
clipper bow. But they are really cool boats and capable small
cruisers.
http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/1/8/62482218.htm

Islander 30... a Bob Perry design, sails well and properly built
http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/7/6/33415976.htm

My family had a protoype of one of these... now *this* is a great
boat... actually I'm bummed to see one pop up at this price...
http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/8/2/45636682.htm

Here's a boat I don't like all that much myself, but others have
raved
about

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...il.jsp?boat_id
=1189436

I was a little surprised to see a Sabre 28 pop up on the listings in
this price range. Also a Scampi 30 which is really a racing boat but
is certainly capable of being cruised.

Other boats that may pop up are the Morgan 30 (the CCA model, not
the
OI) or for that matter, the Morgan 27 which I mentioned just the
other
day. There are also Tanzers, Ericsons, Hughes, Rhodes, Paceship,
Dufour.... Any of these is likely to be better built and better
performing than a Catalina, Pearson, Cal, Columbia, or Hunter of
similar age & condition. IMHO the mass-produced boat are average,
not
built for serious sailing (except for racing as one-designs), and
while many of them are nice boats, they are not "great."

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Camper Nicolson I think 28, Grampian 30, Erickson 27, J24, Ranger 28, Edel I
think 885 is the designation though they are rare. There are more if we
would just get a bit obscure
"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
My list...while avoiding very, very old boats....

Bristol 27
Catalina 27
Cape Dory 25 (70s model)
C&C 25 (70s)
Pearson 25


RB

You forgot the Seidelmann 30 .

SV

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
My list...while avoiding very, very old boats....

Bristol 27
Catalina 27
Cape Dory 25 (70s model)
C&C 25 (70s)
Pearson 25


RB

You forgot the Seidelmann 30 .



No, everyone else did. Just as they did the Yugo and International Scout.


RB

You're still so easy to hook. What's wrong with a Scout? They're great
little trucks.

SV

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
You forgot the Seidelmann 30 .



No, everyone else did. Just as they did the Yugo and International Scout.


RB

What's wrong with a Scout?

The passenger side outside door handle was an optional extra (fact).