No doubt, but I'm not really talking about a harbor
liveaboard. I like the camel analogy.

"felton" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 14:34:09 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote:

I never said that a cruiser would opt for pipe berths, etc.
What I did say was that a real cruiser would carefully
weigh what is important and what isn't. In my experience,
those who opt for creature comforts over function, never
make it off the dock.

Well, there is no doubt that many a "cruising boat" never leaves the
dock,
but I read a long time ago that if one is struggling with the
compromises of a particular "cruising" boat, it is important to
remember that most cruisers spend more time living aboard than
actually under sail, so it is best to consider the boat from a
"liveaboard" viewpoint. Everyone has their own set of priorities. A
friend of mine spent what I thought was a princely sum on an aluminum
spade anchor for his Catalina 36 because he "didn't want too much
weight on the bow." Of course, he had a big honking electric windlass
up there.. As my old dear departed grandma used to say.."he would
gag on a gnat and swallow a camel."

I am not sure of what most of your cruiser friends are foregoing. The
weight of the tankage, ground tackle, BIG battery banks, gensets,
inverters all weigh a lot and most are considered almost standard
these days.


"felton" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 12:41:08 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote:

Most people who buy these sorts of boats never do a lot of sailing
on them. That's a fact. In addition, neither are they cruised on the
ocean
or in protected waters for the most part. Mostly, their owners sit on
them
and entertain.

You need to get out more. Just about every serious cruiser I've ever
spoken
with or whose boat I've seen are very, very particular about what they
pack
and what they jetison. The ones who aren't particular either don't go
anywhere
and thus aren't really serious or they end up dumping a lot of their
crap
very
quickly.

I can't imagine a "cruiser" opting for pipe berths and a stripped out
interior. Most cruising boats are designed with lots of tankage and
storage capacity for the carrying of provisions, ground tackle, tools,
spares and all the rest. It would seem to me that ignoring basic
creature comforts in a cruising boat would be pretty short sighted.
While I think that some boat builders spend a disproportionate amount
of time/money/energy on the aesthetics of the interiors, I would be a
bit concerned if the interior looked poorly constructed or thought
out. I notice even the volume production builders are putting in
higher dollar hardware in the interiors than they used to. Gone are
the days of cheap light fixtures crappy upholstery Of course, boats
cost a lot more than they used to. I suspect the weakening dollar
will have quite an effect on the European boats.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Most people who buy these sorts of boats never do a lot of sailing
on them. Sure, they're great boats, but they're not usually raced
on the ocean or in protected waters.

Raced? I'm talking cruising, Jonathan. The Valiant 40, Gardener
ketch
at
my
club sail to warm waters every year. They don't have spartan
interiors.
Every
serious cruiser I ever saw or read about had plenty of "home" packed
into
the
boat. Nothing spartan.

RB