Sure, but then you have to have a genset... and then the weight can add up.
And, it's not just about weight. The nice looking lounge seat is nice while
your sitting on your anchor, but it doesn't contribute much when actually
sailing. Lots of people forgo that kind of feature.

You're right, that we're both making too many generalities. I was responding
to bob's bs post about stuff he knows nothing about.

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
Gee, I made it off the dock and I had plenty of creature comforts. I
think
you're both making too many generalities here. With a boat bigger than
27 feet
it isn't an "either/or" issue. You can add a "boatload" of toys to a boat
for
only a few hundred extra pounds. How much does a DVD player weigh? Or an
MP3
disk? Cruisers make decision about these things not based on weight, but
on
what type of lifestyle that want when on board. I have cousins that
cruise
Maine & Nova Scotia each summer and never have had a TV or fridge on
board. I
also have liveaboard friends that carry a large array of comfort stuff -
TV,
VCR, high power computer, full woodworking shop, dive gear, etc. - all the
more
impressive because they live dirt cheap. (It was worse 15 years ago -
they
carried an HP Laserjet II, plus a small genset to power it, on their 32
footer!)

As for racers, I remember going aboard DuraCell, the 50 footer Mike Plant
built
for the '89 Vendee and the '90 BOC. He had removed the toilet seat to
save
weight. And, of course, the head was in the middle of the main cabin.



"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
I never said that a cruiser would opt for pipe berths, etc.
What I did say was that a real cruiser would carefully
weigh what is important and what isn't. In my experience,
those who opt for creature comforts over function, never
make it off the dock.

"felton" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 12:41:08 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote:

Most people who buy these sorts of boats never do a lot of sailing
on them. That's a fact. In addition, neither are they cruised on the
ocean
or in protected waters for the most part. Mostly, their owners sit on
them
and entertain.

You need to get out more. Just about every serious cruiser I've ever
spoken
with or whose boat I've seen are very, very particular about what
they
pack
and what they jetison. The ones who aren't particular either don't go
anywhere
and thus aren't really serious or they end up dumping a lot of their
crap
very
quickly.

I can't imagine a "cruiser" opting for pipe berths and a stripped out
interior. Most cruising boats are designed with lots of tankage and
storage capacity for the carrying of provisions, ground tackle, tools,
spares and all the rest. It would seem to me that ignoring basic
creature comforts in a cruising boat would be pretty short sighted.
While I think that some boat builders spend a disproportionate amount
of time/money/energy on the aesthetics of the interiors, I would be a
bit concerned if the interior looked poorly constructed or thought
out. I notice even the volume production builders are putting in
higher dollar hardware in the interiors than they used to. Gone are
the days of cheap light fixtures crappy upholstery Of course, boats
cost a lot more than they used to. I suspect the weakening dollar
will have quite an effect on the European boats.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Most people who buy these sorts of boats never do a lot of sailing
on them. Sure, they're great boats, but they're not usually raced
on the ocean or in protected waters.

Raced? I'm talking cruising, Jonathan. The Valiant 40, Gardener
ketch
at
my
club sail to warm waters every year. They don't have spartan
interiors.
Every
serious cruiser I ever saw or read about had plenty of "home"
packed
into
the
boat. Nothing spartan.

RB