I am a few weeks into Kayaking and want to buy my own Kayak. I am not very
interested in white water stuff. I see myself lazing or touring on canals,
steady rivers, lakes & lochs, estauries and calm-ish coastlines. I am 57,
5'8", about 130 lbs and affected by arthritis in all joints. I have maybe
a quarter of the strength of a normally fit person, but I have good
balance and usually do very well on activities that require hand-eye
co-ordination and other skills/techniques. I therefore want a lighter,
comfortable boat, that I can paddle easily at speed or gliding along. I
want to kayak partly FOR fitness. I like smart/classic looking, high tech,
high performance, high quality things that are also still high on
comfort/convenience aspects (think easy cockpit access/egress and good
seat design/adjustability) and manageable for someone as physically
limited as me. I have scoured the Kayak websites and would like advice on
what to go for? For now, I have narrowed my choice down to the P & H Vela
or the Prijon Catalina. I know these are different propositions. That's
the point. Could any of you look at my needs/brief and appraise me of the
respective merits of these two kayaks in meeting them, or would you
suggest something else, and if so why? Thankyou all, in anticipation :-)

I think (and I'm in no way an expert) you would be best going to a shop that
sells them and trying them. Sit in them and take them out if possible.

Charlie.

"Jayno55" wrote in message
lkaboutboats.com...
I am a few weeks into Kayaking and want to buy my own Kayak. I am not very
interested in white water stuff. I see myself lazing or touring on canals,
steady rivers, lakes & lochs, estauries and calm-ish coastlines. I am 57,
5'8", about 130 lbs and affected by arthritis in all joints. I have maybe
a quarter of the strength of a normally fit person, but I have good
balance and usually do very well on activities that require hand-eye
co-ordination and other skills/techniques. I therefore want a lighter,
comfortable boat, that I can paddle easily at speed or gliding along. I
want to kayak partly FOR fitness. I like smart/classic looking, high tech,
high performance, high quality things that are also still high on
comfort/convenience aspects (think easy cockpit access/egress and good
seat design/adjustability) and manageable for someone as physically
limited as me. I have scoured the Kayak websites and would like advice on
what to go for? For now, I have narrowed my choice down to the P & H Vela
or the Prijon Catalina. I know these are different propositions. That's
the point. Could any of you look at my needs/brief and appraise me of the
respective merits of these two kayaks in meeting them, or would you
suggest something else, and if so why? Thankyou all, in anticipation :-)

Jayno55 wrote:

what to go for? For now, I have narrowed my choice down to the P & H Vela
or the Prijon Catalina. I know these are different propositions. That's
the point. Could any of you look at my needs/brief and appraise me of the
respective merits of these two kayaks in meeting them, or would you
suggest something else, and if so why? Thankyou all, in anticipation :-)

If you're not sure of your needs (and no reason you should be after just
a few weeks), how did you narrow it down to 2 boats? How about the
Valley Avocet, the North Shore Mystral or Shoreline?

Best thing to do is try different boats out. Seated comfort will be
important for your particular needs, and you can't assess a paddling
position and seat from paper specs. Get in the boats that interest you
and try them out.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Thankyou Charlie and Peter,

Of course you are both correct that I need to sit in some possible kayaks
to see how they work for me. I intend to do just that, but I wanted to use
other criteria - and opinions/feedback from people like yourselves - to
narrow down my choices before I made arrangements with manufacturers or
retailers to both sit in and try out such kayaks. This will involve travel
and diary commitments.

To respond to Peter's point specifically, I picked out the Vela and the
Cat for their modest length (I want good tracking on the water, but also
maneouvrability in confined waters like canals etc and manageability for
dry carrying/loading) and size (advertised as suitable for smaller/lighter
paddlers, still sitting low in the water with a light paddler etc).
Obviously I also saw these two kayaks as able to bridge inland touring use
with some seagoing use. I liked their looks and what I have read elsewhere
about their quality. I also thought they were different enough in
construction materials used, form design and features, and rudder vs skeg
etc., to offer an axis for discussion on their relative merits.
Interesting you came back with a suggestion of Valley's Avocet - that is
probably the third kayak I would have included if I had written a longer
post.

I see Peter that you are involved in medical work: it was pleasing to see
your interest in the comfort/ergonomic needs thrown up by my
'differentabilities'. Working these things out on my own can feel like a
rather lonely pursuit. On the same line, I have recently bought Rocky
Snyder's excellent book 'Fit to Paddle: the paddler's guide to strength
and conditioning' but he writes for normally healthy folk, so I am still
going to have to see a Physiotherapist or something to get help with the
physical issues associated with arthritis and kayaking!

I'm still keen on learning from the comments of either of you two or any
other reader, so please keep 'em coming.

Just to let you know, I have similar concerns to yourself. I have problems
with my knees (OCD arthritis) and also with the same problem spreading to my
hips. To top it off I'm a 5ft tall 19 year old girl who (although I'm
cardiacly fit) lacks strength. I wanted something playful to take on the
beautiful sea in Aberystwyth where I live but also to run down rivers. I
chose an I:3 by Pyrahna. My main reason for choosing this one was that it
fitted me well. I went down to Eddy Lines in Llangollen and literally asked
them what they had in stock! I sat in a few daggers and a few others, but
the pyrahna was the one with the comfy outfitting. The seat is like sitting
in an armchair! Coupled with the hip pads and the thigh rests (which on me
are virtually knee rests) it's dead comfy.

Anyway, I'm rambling now. What I meant was, while you are still doing
research why not give a good shop a ring and ask what they have in stock.
If they have a few you think that you may be interested in then go down one
Sunday and just sit in them. It really helped me, and I've only been doing
this lark for about 5 months! The only thing I would say, is that you may
want to wait till a few more months have passed before buying it. It IS a
fair bit of money in the grand scheme of things, and I'm defiantly
regretting my choice. Mostly because they've just bought out the I:4 which
is apparently a billion times more comfy and stable! In retrospect I would
probably go for less of a play boat, but there you go! Right, I'm rambling
again.

I think before narrowing it down to two choices you should paddle with a
club and try out every type of boat they have. Then try out the members
boats. Then try out the ones you liked again. Then look at some specs and
phone the shops.

Don't forget, this is newbie advice from someone who is a newbie herself!
It's my thoughts from buying my own boat.

Charlie.

P.S. Don't forget storage space and gadgets to get in onto the roof of a
car! Factor it into the selling price!


"Jayno55" wrote in message
lkaboutboats.com...
Thankyou Charlie and Peter,

Of course you are both correct that I need to sit in some possible kayaks
to see how they work for me. I intend to do just that, but I wanted to use
other criteria - and opinions/feedback from people like yourselves - to
narrow down my choices before I made arrangements with manufacturers or
retailers to both sit in and try out such kayaks. This will involve travel
and diary commitments.

To respond to Peter's point specifically, I picked out the Vela and the
Cat for their modest length (I want good tracking on the water, but also
maneouvrability in confined waters like canals etc and manageability for
dry carrying/loading) and size (advertised as suitable for smaller/lighter
paddlers, still sitting low in the water with a light paddler etc).
Obviously I also saw these two kayaks as able to bridge inland touring use
with some seagoing use. I liked their looks and what I have read elsewhere
about their quality. I also thought they were different enough in
construction materials used, form design and features, and rudder vs skeg
etc., to offer an axis for discussion on their relative merits.
Interesting you came back with a suggestion of Valley's Avocet - that is
probably the third kayak I would have included if I had written a longer
post.

I see Peter that you are involved in medical work: it was pleasing to see
your interest in the comfort/ergonomic needs thrown up by my
'differentabilities'. Working these things out on my own can feel like a
rather lonely pursuit. On the same line, I have recently bought Rocky
Snyder's excellent book 'Fit to Paddle: the paddler's guide to strength
and conditioning' but he writes for normally healthy folk, so I am still
going to have to see a Physiotherapist or something to get help with the
physical issues associated with arthritis and kayaking!

I'm still keen on learning from the comments of either of you two or any
other reader, so please keep 'em coming.

Jayno55 wrote:

To respond to Peter's point specifically, I picked out the Vela and the
Cat for their modest length (I want good tracking on the water, but also
maneouvrability in confined waters like canals etc and manageability for
dry carrying/loading)

The simplest way to make carrying easier is to get somebody else to help
you. If you'll be going out to sea at all with limited experience then
that's another place where compnay is a Very Good Idea. Though "Less
Than 3 Shall Never Be" is a guideline rather than a rule cast in stone
there is a reason for it, and the reason is most pertinent with relative
inexperience.

I also thought they were different enough in
construction materials used, form design and features, and rudder vs skeg
etc., to offer an axis for discussion on their relative merits.

Relative merits are just that, and where some people love rudders others
find them an unnecessary complication, and for everyone who likes hard
chines someone else doesn't, and so on. I understand you want the most
informed choices possible but at the end of the day it's how /you/ like
the handling and so on.
I've been a sea paddler for 4 years now, and I still couldn't tell you
my ideal boat if I decided to buy a new one. I bought one second hand
having tried it and found it comfortable and stable, and knowing it
would do what I wanted (the seller passed his 5* sea assessment in it!).

I see Peter that you are involved in medical work: it was pleasing to see
your interest in the comfort/ergonomic needs thrown up by my
'differentabilities'.

It was in part concerning that, but only in part. I don't have any
particular joint problems but there are boats I'm very happy to sit in
and paddle for a couple of hours and boats where I feel I'll never walk
again after 10 minutes (playboats admittedly, but some sea boats I find
distinctly less comfortable than my own). There are various fiddles and
faddles you can do to make a boat fit you better, but something where
the default paddling position is one you find innately comfortable is
generally going to be better than something you need to hack to find
bearable. For me it's usually the angle my hips get turned out to brace
myself in that makes the most difference, and in my own boat (a Selkie)
the most comfortable position is also a good brace.

Working these things out on my own can feel like a
rather lonely pursuit. On the same line, I have recently bought Rocky
Snyder's excellent book 'Fit to Paddle: the paddler's guide to strength
and conditioning' but he writes for normally healthy folk, so I am still
going to have to see a Physiotherapist or something to get help with the
physical issues associated with arthritis and kayaking!

A good instructor should be aware of this sort of thing, especially one
with any experience of instruction for fully disabled paddlers. Good
clubs have access to good coaches, and also a pool of boats to try and
experience to tap, and people to paddle with while you get up to speed.

Another thing an instructor will do /much/ better than a book is get
your paddling as efficient as possible so you're using technique rather
than brute force. This is important anyway, but if you're behind the
curve for any reason it's even more important still. Developing a good
touring paddling technique is probably going to be more important than
honing muscles, not that that would be a bad thing.

I'm still keen on learning from the comments of either of you two or any
other reader, so please keep 'em coming.

With the above in mind, look up a good club with a touring bias and then
you'll be among kindred souls doing what you want with direct experience
and Toys to play with. It'll also give you a higher possibility of a
second hand boat which could save you a /lot/ of money, then maybe get a
new one in a year or 3 when you've more idea of your own Perfect Boat.
Another thing saving money will do is let you spend more on a better
paddle. Something like a Lendal touring paddle with a G1F shaft is less
stiff and thus less strain on your joints than a basic glass shaft, and
their carbon/nylon blades are substantially lighter than the standard
polypro or nylon ones, but they're also much, much more expensive. Some
people like cranked shafts finding they lead to less wrist problems,
others find they make things worse. Only way to be sure is try yourself.

This isn't to say you can't get a good boat with a bit of reading and a
few tries: one of the newer members of TSKC did just that (he got a
plastic Perception he seems happy with), but I don't see he's better off
than if he'd just used Club boats for a while until he could pin down
what he really wanted.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Charlie wrote:

Anyway, I'm rambling now. What I meant was, while you are still doing
research why not give a good shop a ring and ask what they have in stock.
If they have a few you think that you may be interested in then go down one
Sunday and just sit in them.

I don't know where the OP is, but the Scottish Paddlesports show is in a
couple of weekends and should probably give plenty of opportunity to sit
in a good selection of Shiny Toys.

http://www.scot-canoe.org/festival/index.htm

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

In article outboats.com,
Jayno55 URL:mailto
I am a few weeks into Kayaking and want to buy my own Kayak. I am not very
interested in white water stuff. I see myself lazing or touring on canals,
steady rivers, lakes & lochs, estauries and calm-ish coastlines. I am 57,
5'8", about 130 lbs and affected by arthritis in all joints. I have maybe
a quarter of the strength of a normally fit person, but I have good
balance and usually do very well on activities that require hand-eye
co-ordination and other skills/techniques. I therefore want a lighter,
comfortable boat, that I can paddle easily at speed or gliding along. I
want to kayak partly FOR fitness. I like smart/classic looking, high tech,
high performance, high quality things that are also still high on
comfort/convenience aspects (think easy cockpit access/egress and good
seat design/adjustability) and manageable for someone as physically
limited as me. I have scoured the Kayak websites and would like advice on
what to go for? For now, I have narrowed my choice down to the P & H Vela
or the Prijon Catalina. I know these are different propositions. That's
the point. Could any of you look at my needs/brief and appraise me of the
respective merits of these two kayaks in meeting them, or would you
suggest something else, and if so why? Thankyou all, in anticipation :-)

I might be slightly biased, but I think the best boat for you is the Cirrus -
a stable, sleek fast tourer (some would call it a stable racer). It's
pedigree and suitability is shown by the fact that it has been used to set a
cross-Channel record, and some spectacular performances on the Devizes to
Westminster Challenge (which includes the notorious Thames Tideway section).

Comfort? Certainly. With EZ-adjust footrest and seat.

Easy access / egress? Certainly, it has a racing cockpit.

Manoeuvrability? Absolutely, it has a rudder.

Weight? 12-13Kg or lighter with vac-bagged construction.


Let me know where you are based and I will try to put you in contact with a
current owner for trials etc.

advert over


Allan Bennett
Not a fan of misinformed choices


--

"Allan Bennett" wrote in message
...
In article
outboats.com,
Jayno55 URL:mailto I might be slightly biased, but I think the best boat for you is the
Cirrus -
a stable, sleek fast tourer (some would call it a stable racer). It's
pedigree and suitability is shown by the fact that it has been used to
set a
cross-Channel record, and some spectacular performances on the Devizes
to
Westminster Challenge (which includes the notorious Thames Tideway
section).

Comfort? Certainly. With EZ-adjust footrest and seat.

Easy access / egress? Certainly, it has a racing cockpit.

Manoeuvrability? Absolutely, it has a rudder.

Weight? 12-13Kg or lighter with vac-bagged construction.


Let me know where you are based and I will try to put you in contact
with a
current owner for trials etc.

advert over


Allan Bennett

You? Biased? Never!

Anyway, regarding your comments on the Cirrus:

Seconded. The Cirrus is the best boat I have ever paddled, one that I
don't promptly fall out of.
I stay dry in my Cirrus especially when I fit the spray deck. Falling
out into the canal is not one of the main attractions of paddling.
I think of it as a stable touring Kayak suitable for racing in the lower
divisions.
I have paddled mine mainly on canals, but also venture out on lakes and
slow rivers.
As it happens, I have a new Cirrus on order.
When the manufacturer gets his finger out and delivers it, I may want to
sell my original Cirrus.
I'm in the Midlands if the OP wants to try paddling my Cirrus on the
local canal.

Thinks - I wonder if there is a K2 version of the Cirrus?

David
Not a fan of slow coaches.

Hmmm. Interesting suggestion. Are you guys buying ready made-up Cirrus
kayaks, or kits; how much are they; and where do you get them from in the
UK?