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PG wrote: While I think I understand your admiration of the kibbutz culture, it takes a stongly ideological person to participate and make it work. I knew one person who had been part of the kibbutz, and while one data point doesn't constitute proof of anything, he gave me the feeling that he would be a good communist if he was so inclined, as his ideological fervor was almost religious in intensity. By contrast, the majority of people I come across in the North American context seem very unwilling to share, and although most pride themselves on being "good people", there is very little enthusiasm for restricting their own freedom (to do, to consume, to enjoy the fruits of their labor) in support of the common good. Part of my work involves getting into peoples' heads to understand how and why they make various decisions (purchase of goods, selection of a service provider, deciding how to earn their living), and I am continually amazed at the mental gymnastics many make to justify their attitudes and positions (this applies to all positions on the political/economic spectrum). Over the years, I've come to the conclusion that if an incentive system doesn't offer immediate gratification, it has little chance of success. Yes, there are always exceptions to the rule, and I've met many fine, principled and aware individuals who do the right thing, but they are unfortunately in the minority. It's not to say that the rest are "bad" people, but they are not convinced that the reduction or denial of their desires will bring about a better overall situation. So to answer your question, until it is in the immediate interest of most people to stop fouling the environment, taking the necessary steps (choices) to do it won't happen. Why should anyone give up their fun and enjoyment, when the whole mass culture is reinforcing the notion that "consumption" is good, and even necessary. Those who don't buy into this concept are abnormal, by definition. I'm OK with being different - it gives me the freedom to see things from a different reference frame. I noticed that you were admiring the system in Norway. I spend some time in Sweden and the culture there is tangibly different from North America. There is much more focus on "family" and "community", and by extension the environment. On the other hand, Sweden has been a relatively homogeneous society until recently, and the influx of immigrants with very different social values has created strains. A similar view is also apparently occuring in Holland, with people less willing to put up with the non-assimilation of immigrant populations. Ultimately, as a believer in democracy, we need to elect the right leaders, who can then start steering the ship of culture in a different direction. There is yet other aspect to consider. We talk as members of the western culture, but the majority of the world's population do not belong to this group. The effect of China, India, Russia, the countries of Africa and South America will have a tremendous impact on the well-being of the environment. It is true that the majority of energy consumption is by "western" nations, but the others are trying very hard to catch up, and even if we all stop doing bad stuff in North America, it may not be enough to save the planet. Again, it appears that technology will have to be the saviour, in providing cheap, non-polluting power to all. No, it doesn't exist yet, but when the pain becomes acute enough, necessity will provide incentive to invent. And if we fail, ... guess we weren't as smart as we thought we were. In that case, the world will have another example of an over-specialized species that couldn't cope with a changing environment. I better get out and enjoy the waters with my family. And while we're at it, pick up some garbage. Good idea about the garbage, but more like likely than not it'll be TOO LITTLE TOO LATE. The HUNGRY SHARK forces people to become predators of their own--small ones, big ones--until they devour each other. I bet you SARDINES want to remain sardines if they had a chance of survival by cooperating. Both the forces COMPETITION AND COOPERATION ARE PRESENT IN NATURE (yes, even predators cooperate) but cooperation is conspicuously absent in a jungle called capitalism. Well, the results are also conspicuous... Kalifornia Kritter wrote: Hey, the House of Mouse has done pretty well for central Florida. You have paved roads and a lot of infrastructure built up in what was once a mosquito-infested swamp. I remember what it looked like 40 years ago. Wall to wall bugs... When I returned to Kalifornia from Florida, I had a palmetto bug hitchhiker hiding under the seat of my Jaguar. I kept killing palmetto bugs and thought I'd got the last one, but there was always one more... Just like your posts, Donkey. Always one more. If you answer, for Dulcinea's sake, let that post be the last one! Dear Gawd, please make Donkey stop!!!! Yeah, all your polluting California stupid sprawl (read "Fast Food Nation")brought to Florida is 5 hurricanes in a year. Florida had a nice train to Key West and it went the way the of the trolleys in LA. Watch "Roger Rabbit" if you don't believe me. |
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