I am a new paddler, and really want to learn to roll. I'm mostly comfortable
with submersion when wearing nose clips - but how to you get comfortable
with a nose full of water? I hate getting water up my nose, and I think this
fear is holding me back from being comfortable upside down under my boat,
which is where I want to learn to spend time calmly. What helps one get over
this fear?

Thistleback

On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 19:22:28 -0700, "Paula Johnson"
wrote:

I am a new paddler, and really want to learn to roll. I'm mostly comfortable
with submersion when wearing nose clips - but how to you get comfortable
with a nose full of water? I hate getting water up my nose, and I think this
fear is holding me back from being comfortable upside down under my boat,
which is where I want to learn to spend time calmly. What helps one get over
this fear?

I've had my head under water a lot when swimming in childhood and
during my brief flirtation with whitewater a few years ago. I do get
some water in the outer part of my nose, but never noticed that it got
filled. There are so many other things to think of and do when you're
under water that it just doesn't become an issue for me.

Just don't inhale and you should be fine. In white water you'll be
upside down and going with the current with your head down if it's
typical. Water won't be forcing itself up your nose. I _think_ it's
more like being drawn away from it.

The only time I recall getting a large amount of water up my nose was
as a teen, when one of the guys pulled my ankles out from under me as
I was standing in still water and pulled me backwards. I assume I was
inhaling at the time or the drag pressure did it.

The fear is pretty natural. Mine is a combination fear of pain
(getting things up your nose and down into your throat hurts (or vice
versa when you laugh or cough while drinking a beverage, something I'm
more familiar with)) and a fear of drowning. Drowning does involve
water up the nose, but it's not symmetrical. Water up the nose does
not equal drowning. And the pain is not all that awful. Not as bad
as the road rash that any kid gets when riding a bicycle and going
down. We all get back on the bikes and keep going. Kayaking is
enough fun that when you do finally get the dreaded water up the nose,
you'll right yourself, blow it out, and paddle on without being upset
(other than with your form on rolling, which you'll get over, too).
--
rbc: vixen Fairly harmless

Hit reply to email.
Though I'm very slow to respond.
http://www.visi.com/~cyli

"Paula Johnson" wrote in
:

I am a new paddler, and really want to learn to roll. I'm mostly
comfortable with submersion when wearing nose clips - but how to you
get comfortable with a nose full of water? I hate getting water up my
nose, and I think this fear is holding me back from being comfortable
upside down under my boat, which is where I want to learn to spend time
calmly. What helps one get over this fear?

Nose plugs help. I use the kind that has a stiff metal wire with a couple
of pieces of molded plastic on each end.

Coincidently, the most recent issue of Seakayaker magazine has an article on
breath control exercises.

in article , John Fereira at
wrote on 8/30/03 7:21 AM:

"Paula Johnson" wrote in
:

I am a new paddler, and really want to learn to roll. I'm mostly
comfortable with submersion when wearing nose clips - but how to you
get comfortable with a nose full of water? I hate getting water up my
nose, and I think this fear is holding me back from being comfortable
upside down under my boat, which is where I want to learn to spend time
calmly. What helps one get over this fear?

Nose plugs help. I use the kind that has a stiff metal wire with a couple
of pieces of molded plastic on each end.

Coincidently, the most recent issue of Seakayaker magazine has an article on
breath control exercises.


It's not un-natural to feel uncomfortable under water. Or even just near
water. It's not a place where humans were meant to be.

Maybe it's because I've been a "swimmer" since infanthood or maybe it's
because I'm a Cancer, but I've always been able to spend time under water
without it bothering my nose. Water does get into my nose but I've always
been able to flex certain muscles to prevent it from making its way into my
sinus openings. It is at that point that the water causes discomfort or
pain for people and in turn, a little fear and sometimes panic.

If you can learn to control those muscles, you should be able to calm down
and remain inverted under water while learing your technique. When you
successfully complete your roll (how did you manage learning a controlled
wet exit with this problem/fear?) remember to exhale through your nose to
clear out water that may be in there before taking your next breath or you
might suck the water in.

Have fun.

Dave

Well, I have a little turned-up nose that lets water right in. It's water in
my sinuses that hurts. I guess I'm built so that it just runs in and right
down my throat. I snort nose drops and stuff, and that doesn't bother me.
But when water runs way back to the sinuses is chokes me after I emerge and
try to breathe.

It happens when submerged if I tilt my head back especially. You know the
typical sinking in ;the bathtub position? You'd never see me doing that!
Face down is always fine. Upside down is not.

Thistleback

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 06:09:52 GMT, "Michael Daly"
wrote:

(snipped)

You could do this in the kayak if you hold onto
something so you can pull yourself back up - a dock in a lake or the side
of a pool will work. Start with short intervals, counting the seconds
and
stretch it as you get comfortable. You should get to the point where the
limit is how long you can hold your breath. Don't give up as that will
only
reinforce the fear. It might be good to do this with someone standing in
the water beside you to lend support.

Excellent point. Work on just the fear for a while.

You can do it even more easily without the kayak. Stand or sit in the
water and dip your head in. Hold it for increasing amounts of time.
Swim under water a bit (quiet lake is good for all this).

BTW, do you have this fear when taking a shower? I always get some
water in the lowest part of my nose when showering and just let it
drool right out again. Perhaps I shower incorrectly, but it's a
point.

If you learned to swim in a chlorinated pool, you've got a reason for
fearing water in your nose. That stuff is practically corrosive in
feeling on mucous tissues. Yuck.
--
rbc: vixen Fairly harmless

Hit reply to email.
Though I'm very slow to respond.
http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Paula Johnson wrote:

Well, I have a little turned-up nose that lets water right in. It's water in
my sinuses that hurts. I guess I'm built so that it just runs in and right
down my throat. I snort nose drops and stuff, and that doesn't bother me.
But when water runs way back to the sinuses is chokes me after I emerge and
try to breathe.

Always exhale forcibly when you get back to the surface. Think of a whale spout.
;-)

--
Regards

Brian

Paula Johnson wrote:

I am a new paddler, and really want to learn to roll. I'm mostly comfortable
with submersion when wearing nose clips - but how to you get comfortable
with a nose full of water? I hate getting water up my nose, and I think this
fear is holding me back from being comfortable upside down under my boat,
which is where I want to learn to spend time calmly. What helps one get over
this fear?

Let's not treat this as a psychological or moral failing, OK? You want
to learn to roll, fine, get the nose clips and go to it. If I'm
practicing rolls, or just hanging out under water, I always wear mine.
Not having had a childhood that included swimming lessons, I get water
up my nose and in my sinuses too, as you do.

Lots of people use nose clips. Watch the videos of the rodeo boaters.
They almost all wear them. I often do, too, when surfing in white water.
But never when running a rapid or surfing in the ocean, because I think
that wearing them then shows a bad attitude and fear of flipping.
Besides, I can't breathe.

But here's the neat part. When I flip and do a combat roll, I just do
it, and I rarely get any water in my nose at all.

Good luck!

--
Steve Cramer
Athens, GA

Thanks Steve - your post has made me feel much more "OK" with it.

Thistleback
AKA Paula

"Steve Cramer" wrote in message
...
Paula Johnson wrote:

I am a new paddler, and really want to learn to roll. I'm mostly
comfortable
with submersion when wearing nose clips - but how to you get comfortable
with a nose full of water? I hate getting water up my nose, and I think
this
fear is holding me back from being comfortable upside down under my
boat,
which is where I want to learn to spend time calmly. What helps one get
over
this fear?

Let's not treat this as a psychological or moral failing, OK? You want
to learn to roll, fine, get the nose clips and go to it. If I'm
practicing rolls, or just hanging out under water, I always wear mine.
Not having had a childhood that included swimming lessons, I get water
up my nose and in my sinuses too, as you do.

Lots of people use nose clips. Watch the videos of the rodeo boaters.
They almost all wear them. I often do, too, when surfing in white water.
But never when running a rapid or surfing in the ocean, because I think
that wearing them then shows a bad attitude and fear of flipping.
Besides, I can't breathe.

But here's the neat part. When I flip and do a combat roll, I just do
it, and I rarely get any water in my nose at all.

Good luck!

--
Steve Cramer
Athens, GA

"Paula Johnson" wrote in message ...
Thanks Steve - your post has made me feel much more "OK" with it.

Thistleback
AKA Paula

"Steve Cramer" wrote in message
...
Paula Johnson wrote:

I am a new paddler, and really want to learn to roll. I'm mostly
comfortable
with submersion when wearing nose clips - but how to you get comfortable
with a nose full of water? I hate getting water up my nose, and I think
this
fear is holding me back from being comfortable upside down under my
boat,
which is where I want to learn to spend time calmly. What helps one get
over
this fear?

Let's not treat this as a psychological or moral failing, OK? You want
to learn to roll, fine, get the nose clips and go to it. If I'm
practicing rolls, or just hanging out under water, I always wear mine.
Not having had a childhood that included swimming lessons, I get water
up my nose and in my sinuses too, as you do.

Lots of people use nose clips. Watch the videos of the rodeo boaters.
They almost all wear them. I often do, too, when surfing in white water.
But never when running a rapid or surfing in the ocean, because I think
that wearing them then shows a bad attitude and fear of flipping.
Besides, I can't breathe.

But here's the neat part. When I flip and do a combat roll, I just do
it, and I rarely get any water in my nose at all.

Good luck!

--
Steve Cramer
Athens, GA


I am a sea kayaker and put more time on the water than my wife and
family like. When learning to roll I would (and did) get a GOOD diving
mask and work on the roll without the pain. When the action becomes
reflexive or "muscle memory" then do it a few times in water with out
the mask if you must. I would look for a place with clean brackish
water (Salt and fresh mix) say in a close cove or behind a barichous.
Salt water does not bother me as much as fresh water.
Ocean salt water (about 3 % Salt) stings but it is nothing like
chlirine, Brackish water 2 % is closer to your bodys salt content and
is not painfull at all.
Once you have gone this far you can try to control your breath and
gently exhale all through a roll. This works for me in a pool showing
off but if I need to do a "combat" roll the gloves are off and i don't
notice my nose at all. I have only ever had to do two of them and I
have wet exited twice as well. All these were conciouse decisions,
rocks and the boat being dragged by waves with me attached was not a
good time to roll up.
I practice rolls all the time. Sea kayakers need then too, except we
need them less often; but when we need then we need them more urgently
that ww.
Oh, I can't swim...

Good Luck
Alex
It is good to have a couple of other tricks to get yourself back in
the boat as well.