"HK" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
I'll bet that Dicque Cheney is working right now with his "BIG OIL"
buddies to try to knock the price of gas down temporarily two weeks
before the November elections.


Sure he is Harry. Sure he is.

The blame for the price of oil doesn't reside with politicians, current
or past.
The blame resides with us.

Eisboch

I think a steep "excess profits tax" would tighten things up a hair, that
and members representing the public and responsible to it sitting on big
oil boards.

Try putting some value to the greenback would be more like it.

Jump interest rates to 15% to attract investment. Make the banks/owners
honor the sub-prime or fold. Big government prints money and bail outs are
just screwing the value of the USD on the world markets.

Say for example the USD currency was not so diluted by debt bail outs and so
forth, and 1/2 the dollars out there were not printed. The remaining
dollars would be twice as much and the cost of gasoline would go down to 1/2
of what it is. Or about $50 USD per barrel.

This problem of oil is a born in the USA issue, pure and simple. And if not
fixed, count on a big flush.

On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 21:48:00 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .

On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 20:25:28 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:



I don't know about that. There's nothing on the horizon to influence it
that way. I'd like to hear your reasoning.

It's pretty simple - it's a huge commodity bubble. There is absoutely
nothing, and I mean nothing, to support these levels in any sense of
the word. It's too much money chasing too little profit - a sort of
currency inflation if you will. If I'm right, and I'm pretty sure I
am, economic data will provide the catalyst for the crash - sometime
around the middle to the end of July.

Hmmmmm..... It sounds like you are basically in agreement with Doug.
Did hell just freeze over?

Well, obviously - six inches of snow last night and no open water
anywhere. :)

I'd add this - out of control information flow is also a function of
this - anything will move the market. If somebody sneezes in Nigeria,
another $.50 to $1. Fog in the Houston shipping channel - another
$.50 to a $1. And it happens more and more often - issues that
wouldn't have affected the price 10 years ago, now can cause 1-2%
changes in price instantly.

There is also the self-fullfilling prophecy aspect of this - goals are
set by people who have a vested interest making sure it happens and
the market does it's best to meet it.

That is classically a bubble - no other way around it.

And as fast as it went up, it will be faster coming down.

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"HK" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
I'll bet that Dicque Cheney is working right now with his "BIG OIL"
buddies to try to knock the price of gas down temporarily two weeks
before the November elections.


Sure he is Harry. Sure he is.

The blame for the price of oil doesn't reside with politicians, current
or past.
The blame resides with us.

Eisboch


I think a steep "excess profits tax" would tighten things up a hair, that
and members representing the public and responsible to it sitting on big
oil boards.

How will that affect the price of a barrel of oil here? Or in Japan? or
in China? or in Sweden? or in Great Britain? or in Germany? or Italy?

Eisboch

Tax would just be passed onto the consumer, the US average Joe filling up to
go to work.

Companies could not pass that tax on abroad for very long, making the US
company less competitive.

Gasoline has not increase in those countries you mentioned like it has in
the US.

The real answer is to get the Fed currency management on a tight leash.

"HK" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
I'll bet that Dicque Cheney is working right now with his "BIG OIL"
buddies to try to knock the price of gas down temporarily two weeks
before the November elections.

Sure he is Harry. Sure he is.

The blame for the price of oil doesn't reside with politicians, current
or past.
The blame resides with us.

Eisboch

I think a steep "excess profits tax" would tighten things up a hair,
that and members representing the public and responsible to it sitting
on big oil boards.


Excess profits in what terms? Straight dollars, or percentage? It really
wouldn't matter. Unlike the vast majority of businesses, crude oil is
priced by a gambling parlor. Even if you (and I mean YOU specifically)
could somehow control the profits of the oil companies, they still have
to buy crude at prices determined by sheer lunacy.

"Big Oil" helps set the price of the crude it buys. You think it doesn't
have "partners" sitting on the OPEC committees?

So if you (and millions of others) buy less, they need to buy less and the
prices fall.

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"HK" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
I'll bet that Dicque Cheney is working right now with his "BIG OIL"
buddies to try to knock the price of gas down temporarily two weeks
before the November elections.

Sure he is Harry. Sure he is.

The blame for the price of oil doesn't reside with politicians,
current or past.
The blame resides with us.

Eisboch

I think a steep "excess profits tax" would tighten things up a hair,
that and members representing the public and responsible to it sitting
on big oil boards.


Excess profits in what terms? Straight dollars, or percentage? It really
wouldn't matter. Unlike the vast majority of businesses, crude oil is
priced by a gambling parlor. Even if you (and I mean YOU specifically)
could somehow control the profits of the oil companies, they still have
to buy crude at prices determined by sheer lunacy.


"Big Oil" helps set the price of the crude it buys. You think it doesn't
have "partners" sitting on the OPEC committees?

Is that why we never see much of Cheney? Is he too busy attending OPEC
committee meetings, encouraging them to increase the price of oil?

Eisboch

Big government does like higher oil prices, bigger tax revenue when indexed
on the price as a percentage.

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"HK" wrote in message
...


"Big Oil" helps set the price of the crude it buys. You think it
doesn't have "partners" sitting on the OPEC committees?


I'm sure they do. But, there are also speculators at work, in the
exact same way speculators dick with the price of stocks to the point
where their prices are completely disconnected from physical &
financial reality.

Speculative nonsense:


Think back. Although laughable when compared to current values, the
price of oil quadrupled during the oil "shortage" crisis in the early
70's on Nixon's watch. Later that decade, under Carter it doubled
again in less than 12 months.

Neither had anything to do with Wall Street, Dick Cheney or secret "Big
Oil" meetings with OPEC.

Eisboch



That was then. This is now. And (separate issue), in this discussion,
I'm not concerned with any particular politician.

In the long list of things you buy regularly, can you think of 5 or 6
whose prices are determined by speculators, causing almost daily price
swings? I'm in the grocery biz, and I handle about 500 different
products. I don't see this happening.

How about shoes, or anything else you buy?


I am on a conservation kick. I go barefoot.

Seriously, at 100 bucks or so a barrel, I don't see daily price swings of
a few dollars per barrel as being very significant.
There's something more than speculators causing prices to more than
double in two years. I admit, I don't fully understand how oil prices
are "set" despite JimH's links. Seems to me that those who control the
goods determine the price.

Eisboch


It's all the factors working together. Demand is part of it, but not all
of it. The problem is that people will gamble on absolutely anything. If
we added chick pea futures to the other available via the commodities
exchanges, people would be gambling on chick peas.

And if they are wrong, they lose their shirts.

Supply and demand eventually wins.

"JimH" wrote in message
...

"Canuck57" wrote in message
news:4Jmyj.31064$w94.3216@pd7urf2no...

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 14:32:58 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

Everyone says 4 dollars... I will throw my prediction in, I think we
will test 5 dollars a gallon before the end of the year.

I'll take that bet. I'll say that gas will be back at $2.34/gal by
the end of the year.

And oil will be down around $60/bl.

What do you base that on?

Fantasy what?

If I knew you, I would gave you 3:1 odds against and an $10,000 wager you
are wrong.


I would up the odds to 4::1 on $100,000.

There is no way oil will drop to $60/barrel and gasoline drop to $2.34 by
the end of 2008, Presidential election year or not.

This series of posts is a keeper. ;-)

Hey, I was trying to make money on an almost assured bet, you undercut
me....

Will do 5:1?

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...

Supplies will rise due to decreased demand. Take this past week for
example - crude stocks are at six year highs and gas is at a four year
high - distilates are at normal levels - and every one of them
experienced a increase in price.

It's just not logical, sustainable or in any way makeing economic
sense. And when it doesn't make economic sense, it's a bubble.

Not really a bubble at all.

Say 1 barrel was worth one Kazoo dollar. The USD was worth $75 Kazoo
dollars.

The next day you woke up, the USD devalues by 33%, now takes $100 USD to by
$1 Kazoo. Still, $1 Kazoo per barrel.

That is what is happening for the most part. It isn't oil that is nuts, it
is the value, or lack of value in the currency. Hard to hear, but is what
is happening.

Look to monetary policy by the US Fed and congress. If I was a US citizen,
I wouldn't vote for my congress person.

wrote in message
...
On Mar 1, 8:13 pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 16:50:23 -0800 (PST),





wrote:
On Mar 1, 7:41 pm, "Canuck57" wrote:
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in
messagenews:38sjs3h82ded28g7gqgm79uq7djnd2ag6e@4ax .com...

On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 14:32:58 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

Everyone says 4 dollars... I will throw my prediction in, I think we
will test 5 dollars a gallon before the end of the year.

I'll take that bet. I'll say that gas will be back at $2.34/gal by
the end of the year.

And oil will be down around $60/bl.

What do you base that on?

Fantasy what?

If I knew you, I would gave you 3:1 odds against and an $10,000 wager
you
are wrong.

Holy crap, I was just going to bet him and the loser has to answer the
drunken dougies questions for a week

For you and you only.

If oil doesn't drop to around - say plus 5/minus4 - $60 by the end of
the year, *I will give you that boat I told you about a month or so
ago*.

There - right out in public. :)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Holy crap, bookmarked.....


What the 'ell!
Hope he wasn't talking about some 8' dinghy.

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"HK" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
I'll bet that Dicque Cheney is working right now with his "BIG OIL"
buddies to try to knock the price of gas down temporarily two weeks
before the November elections.

Sure he is Harry. Sure he is.

The blame for the price of oil doesn't reside with politicians,
current or past.
The blame resides with us.

Eisboch

I think a steep "excess profits tax" would tighten things up a hair,
that and members representing the public and responsible to it sitting
on big oil boards.


Excess profits in what terms? Straight dollars, or percentage? It really
wouldn't matter. Unlike the vast majority of businesses, crude oil is
priced by a gambling parlor. Even if you (and I mean YOU specifically)
could somehow control the profits of the oil companies, they still have
to buy crude at prices determined by sheer lunacy.


"Big Oil" helps set the price of the crude it buys. You think it doesn't
have "partners" sitting on the OPEC committees?

Is that why we never see much of Cheney? Is he too busy attending OPEC
committee meetings, encouraging them to increase the price of oil?

Eisboch

Speaking of that...do you still have a vice president down there? We never
hear of him up this way.