Another quality boat manufacturer sells out.
 

Chuck Gould wrote:
On Nov 5, 2:51?am, HK wrote:

I'm sure Chuck will tell us of the virtues of balsa as a core material.
I wouldn't even consider buying a boat with a balsa core. I also don't
buy into the boat broker b.s. that osmosis blistering is no big deal.
Those guys will do anything to move used boats. I don't want a boat
whose bottom is as pustuled and pockmarked as a $3.00 whore.

In specific locations, balsa is a fine coring material. I don't like
to see it below the waterline. It has been used very successfully for
decks, cabin tops, etc. Balsa is rapidly being replaced by better
materials that won't absorb water, and some of the most respected
brand names core the entire hull. Cabin soles are commonly cored with
Nidacor these days, but that was an application where balsa was
commonly used and seldom a problem in the past.


You get water entry anywhere near balsa and the balsa starts to rot.
Simple as that. Got balsa under your fiberglass deck? Got a joint
anywhere that lets in water? Loose machine screw not properly sealed?
You got balsa rot under your fiberglass deck.


They overriding principle is that a boat should be well made, with
structural integrity that exceeds the most stringent demands ever
likely to be placed upon it.

Yeah, well, stuff happens out in the real world.



As for blisters, here are some comments from a marine surveyor who
hates brokers and the marine industry in general almost as much as you
do. :-)

As I said, if you want to buy a used boat with as many pustules and
pockmocks on her bottom as a $3 whore...go for it.

Another quality boat manufacturer sells out.
 

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
oups.com...


With crude oil well over $90/bbl and forecast to hit $100 by the end
of the year, we could easily see $4- $4-50 a gallon at gas stations
and
maybe $6 at fuel docks during next spring's annual gas gouge. If
boating is to survive as a pastime and if the manufacturers hope to
sell enough boats to survive, the industry has to get some weight out
of the boats without sacrificing strength. The solid, hand rolled
laminate hull is being supplanted with better alternatives, made
possible in part by vacuum infused molding.


Making boats lighter has more implications than saving a few bucks worth of
fuel.

Leave them heavy and drive slower, I say.

Eisboch

Another quality boat manufacturer sells out.
 

Eisboch wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
oups.com...

With crude oil well over $90/bbl and forecast to hit $100 by the end
of the year, we could easily see $4- $4-50 a gallon at gas stations
and
maybe $6 at fuel docks during next spring's annual gas gouge. If
boating is to survive as a pastime and if the manufacturers hope to
sell enough boats to survive, the industry has to get some weight out
of the boats without sacrificing strength. The solid, hand rolled
laminate hull is being supplanted with better alternatives, made
possible in part by vacuum infused molding.


Making boats lighter has more implications than saving a few bucks worth of
fuel.

Leave them heavy and drive slower, I say.

Eisboch




I love this line, since it is right out of the PR Department's
bullship-ometer:

"The solid, hand rolled laminate hull is being supplanted with better
alternatives..."

Right, of course.

Another quality boat manufacturer sells out.
 

Gene Kearns wrote:
On Mon, 5 Nov 2007 14:02:00 -0500, " JimH" ask penned the
following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

"Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in message
. ..
HK wrote:
Capt John wrote:
On Nov 3, 6:29 pm, HK wrote:
Just read that Albemarle was bought out by Brunswick. Another famous
line goes in the crapper. Cabo was sold last year. Sad to see the
independents disappearing, since they build the best boats.
I can't say I blame them, with the price of fuel, the future is very
cloudy. Powerboating was very much a middle class activity. Sure, the
really big boats are owned by the wealthy, but the vast majority of
boat owners are middle class. Crazy fuel prices are starting to push
the middle class out of boating.

If I owned a business that was very much dependant on middle class
incomes. And the business started to change, pushing the operating
cost of my product beyond that which my customer base can afford,
driving increasing numbers of those customers away. And someone came
along and offered me a good price for that business, I'd probably take
the money and run.

John

Oh, I don't *blame* Albemarle for selling out, but the likelihood is that
the product that emerges in the years to come will no longer be an
"Albemarle." It'll be the product of the MBAs and accountants, and
therefore the probability is, it will be crap, because that is what MBAs
and accountants produce.

Some decades ago, an ad and pr company I worked for had a client that, at
that time, was the largest and most successful FHA-VA mortgage banker in
the country. We liked the company and its management a lot, so much so
that the owner of the company and I (I was the chief account exec and
writer) bought some stock. It was traded O-T-C at the time, for about
$4.00 a share.

Lo and behold, a giant NY-based financial institution offer the founders
$35 a share for the stock. Too good an offer to turn down. We all cashed
in to the limits of our holdings, of course. I made a few bucks and was
happy to do so.

Well, the new owners simply didn't understand the market for the
acquisition and in a few years, it sold the company off to someone else,
after most of its value (which was mainly in good will and very competent
staff in about 20 U.S. markets). The company disappeared, along with the
service it had provided. The big institution's MBAs turned the mortgage
company into crap.

The family that started the mortgage company, the guys who cashed out,
stayed active in business. A large regional bank in our market was about
to be shut down by the FDIC, and the guys, over the course of ONE
weekend, put together enough cash to take over the bank with the FDIC's
blessing. Bank opened Monday with a new name and new management.
No MBAs involved.

Hatteras no longer is a premier manufacturer of top-end sportfishing
boats. Cabo no longer has its edge. Albemarle is going to become just
another nameplate.

Sad to see, whatever the reasons.


Who is the premier mfg'er of top-end sportfishing boats who has retained
it's edge.

Tiara

http://www.tiarayachts.com/Brix?pageID=168


It is sorta hard to take a "sportfisher" made in Michigan
seriously.... and from the number I see around here, I must not be the
only person to have that opinion.

Maybe it does great in Michigan... you just see very few of them
here....

Local boats are favored, because over the decades they have been honed
to perfection for local conditions and uses. Like Albemarle, corporate
boats are homogenized and rendered ho-hum by the bean counters that
are looking for the package most salable to the masses. The boats will
lose their local edge.

Most of us are local boaters or cruisers. If you cruise, you buy a
cruiser. If you trailer, unless you are the nut case that used to post
here that thought trailering 2000 miles each way was cool, you are
probably going to buy with respect to your local conditions.



I have a friend with a large Tiara. Damn nice boat, but not a sportfisher.

My first sailboat on the Bay was from the wonderful folks who brought us
Tiara. S2 9.2. Just under 30', and a wide-bodied slowpoke. But it was
easy to sail.

Another quality boat manufacturer sells out.
 

On Nov 5, 1:41 pm, HK wrote:
wrote:
On Nov 4, 7:30 am, HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Nov 3, 4:29?pm, HK wrote:
Just read that Albemarle was bought out by Brunswick. Another famous
line goes in the crapper. Cabo was sold last year. Sad to see the
independents disappearing, since they build the best boats.
Where have you been, Harry?
Brunswick has owned Albermarle for quite while now. Basically, they
are built by the same group that makes Hatteras. Many of the upper
tier
trademarks built by Brunswick are pretty darn good boats.
I'm sure they were better boats when the companies that built them were
independent. The newest model Albemarle, for example, is wider and with
less deadrise than the model it will be replacing. That's corporate
conglomerate think for you...take a line of fishing boats and turn them
into something less.

People often think that just because something is made by small
independents that it automatically means better craftmanship and
quality, but that just isn't always true. Larger companies have money
to use for R&D and testing, plus the tools to ensure quality control.

It's entirely dependent on the builder.

Yep, there are plenty of crappy small family owned manufacturers out
there.

The "larger companies" in the
boat business seem to blow their R&D and testing budgets on ways to make
their boats cheaper.

That's just not true or pure speculation.

I prefer fiberglass boats built in the old, traditional ways.

I like fiberglass just fine, but am also not afraid of other systems
of hull manufacter.

Proper
mold prep, hand layup of the proper cloths by experienced workers,
correct amounts of chemicals properly applied, enough time in the molds,

Bingo, and that's where a good computerized system can help a great
deal.

quality inspection by old guys who know what to look for,

I'd rather the inspection process involve being able to tell, for
instance, whether or not there are any voids in the hull material,
than rely on some old guy's poor vision.

heavy
hardware, heavy construction, et cetera.

Heavy doesn't always mean better, or stronger.


Hell, a Parker family member
personally took and forwarded to me photos of my boats every couple of
days while they were under construction.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And just what did that do for the quality of the boat?

Another quality boat manufacturer sells out.
 

On Nov 5, 11:30?am, "Eisboch" wrote:


Making boats lighter has more implications than saving a few bucks worth of
fuel.

Leave them heavy and drive slower, I say.

Eisboch


No problem for the trawler class- but as we know there is a point at
which slowing down a planing hull becomes less economical than staying
up on step. If the boat is slightly lighter it may be able to plane
more quickly and stay on plane more efficiently.

Offshore there is no replacement for displacement- but if the family
bow rider destined to zoom around Lake Whatchamacallit on warm summer
afternoons and in fair weather can be lightened up a few hundred
pounds without sacrificing structural integrty- that's probably a good
thing.

Another quality boat manufacturer sells out.
 

HK wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
HK wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
wrote:
On Nov 4, 7:30 am, HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Nov 3, 4:29?pm, HK wrote:
Just read that Albemarle was bought out by Brunswick. Another
famous
line goes in the crapper. Cabo was sold last year. Sad to see the
independents disappearing, since they build the best boats.
Where have you been, Harry?
Brunswick has owned Albermarle for quite while now. Basically, they
are built by the same group that makes Hatteras. Many of the upper
tier
trademarks built by Brunswick are pretty darn good boats.
I'm sure they were better boats when the companies that built them
were
independent. The newest model Albemarle, for example, is wider and
with
less deadrise than the model it will be replacing. That's corporate
conglomerate think for you...take a line of fishing boats and turn
them
into something less.

People often think that just because something is made by small
independents that it automatically means better craftmanship and
quality, but that just isn't always true. Larger companies have money
to use for R&D and testing, plus the tools to ensure quality control.


Of course you are correct. I personally would hate to pay for a one
off car. After watching American Hotrod, I would seriously
question the quality of some of these smaller builders. I would
assume it is very similar in with small boat builders.





I wouldn't buy a motorcycle from any of the televised "chopper" show
shops, because it is obvious that the builders are not overly
concerned with the vagaries of metallurgy. Small boat building among
the quality builders is an entirely different proposition; the
"flashboat" builders may change everything every year, but the
quality builders do not.

Parker has been building hulls for a long, long time. Most of the
hulls are very similar in design, no matter their length, and so are
the materials, though "thickness" varies. Same with hardware. Same
with assembly. Next year, Parker will introduce a 34-footer with twin
350-hp Yamahas. I suspect the boat will be very competent.




I don't think I have seen a Parker on my little body of water, but
Grady Whites are very common. While I would not consider them a small
boat builder, they are not part of a conglomerate. On the lake, they
have clubs who will haul their boats to the ocean for group fishing
tournaments.

By the same token, there are many conglomerate car mfg'ers including
BMW and Lexus who have managed to build a car to the masses and keep
quality at a very high level.




Gradys are great boats, very similar in construction if not in looks to
Parkers. I'd buy one, but they are just "too fancy" for my style of
feeeeshing. I have no idea why Gradys would be big sellers on Lake
Lanier or any other small inland lake.


i don't think many people who boat exclusively on Lake Lanier would buy
a Grady, but there are many people who boat on Lake Lanier who will
regularly trailer their boats 4 hours to the Georgia or SC coast.

Another quality boat manufacturer sells out.
 

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Nov 5, 11:30?am, "Eisboch" wrote:


Making boats lighter has more implications than saving a few bucks worth
of
fuel.

Leave them heavy and drive slower, I say.

Eisboch


No problem for the trawler class- but as we know there is a point at
which slowing down a planing hull becomes less economical than staying
up on step. If the boat is slightly lighter it may be able to plane
more quickly and stay on plane more efficiently.

Offshore there is no replacement for displacement- but if the family
bow rider destined to zoom around Lake Whatchamacallit on warm summer
afternoons and in fair weather can be lightened up a few hundred
pounds without sacrificing structural integrty- that's probably a good
thing.


Agreed. I thought we were talking about high end sportsfishing boats. To
me, that means an offshore boat, but I hear you.

I learned a lesson about the newer, lighter sportsfishing boats with the Egg
Harbor I had.
Beautiful boat ... well built ... but would loosen your fillings on a rough
outing unless you slowed way down.

I guess that's why I still like the Navigator. Not fast, but fast enough
for fuel efficient cruising (which is my interest) and a soft, comfortable
ride in some fairly heavy seas.

Eisboch

Another quality boat manufacturer sells out.
 

"Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in message
. ..


i don't think many people who boat exclusively on Lake Lanier would buy a
Grady, but there are many people who boat on Lake Lanier who will
regularly trailer their boats 4 hours to the Georgia or SC coast.


Just watched a news report. Not too many people boating on Lake Lanier ....
period.

Back to Gradys. They are very popular up here in the northeast. I think
there are more of them around than any other manufacturer including Boston
Whaler. There's a large Grady dealer here in my hometown who stocks and
sells a lot of them.

Eisboch

Another quality boat manufacturer sells out.
 

On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 10:28:39 -0500, Gene Kearns
wrote:

Albemarle and Hatteras were originally designed as sport fishers for
the North Carolina coast. Hatteras hasn't been Hatteras since the High
Point, NC factory closed and the "Hatteras Collection" has "evolved"
to the point that it has as much in common with sportfishing as a
metrosexual does with a salt water tackle box.

ROTFL!!!

You do make a good point though - the Hatteras line is definetly not
what it used to be in terms of style and function.

I don't know about NC, but there is a thriving business up in this
area with older sport fishers and the refurbishment of same.