Another quality boat manufacturer sells out.
 

Another quality boat manufacturer sells out.
 

"Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in message
...

Eisboch wrote:

Jim Smith

http://www.jimsmithboats.net/HOME.HTML

Eisboch

While these are really nice (and out of my league) boats, are they really
better than a similar equipped Hatteras?

In a word .... yes.

Eisboch

Another quality boat manufacturer sells out.
 

HK wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
HK wrote:

Hatteras no longer is a premier manufacturer of top-end
sportfishing boats. Cabo no longer has its edge. Albemarle is going
to become just another nameplate.

Sad to see, whatever the reasons.



Who is the premier mfg'er of top-end sportfishing boats who has
retained it's edge.



There are top-end sportfishing boats in just about every size
category. If I were in the market for a large Atlantic Ocean
"battlewagon," though, I'd be visiting the independent Carolina
builders.

There are some builders in the Maritime Provinces of Canada who build
some really serious fishing boats.

Are these custom boats or do they have a model line up of different
size sportfishing boats that one can see online or at a boat show?
The reason I ask is I normally think custom boats are more expensive
than similar boats using an existing mold and design.


In the larger sizes, most of the boats are pretty much custom even if an
existing mold is used or stretched or modified. And not all the boats
come out of molds.


There's a relatively new builder of larger custom glass boats...Mirage
something or other. Forty to 60 footers, with Bertram-like hulls in
their lineage. Lots of custom features, very nice. There's a fellow on a
boat discussion board who is having one built for him, and he's posted a
zillion good photos. I'd have to say they are the best looking (from
photos, anyway) glass battlewagons I have seen lately.

Most of the custom builders will have a lineup at the Miami show. Their
customers are glad to help them, so you'll see several owner boats
included at the show.

If you are a serious fisherman, you cannot evaluate a boat by seeing its
photos or specs on line. Even on a bitty boat like my new Parker,
showroom visits alone were not enough, at least not for me. I got the
dealer to arrange a "demo" with a customer who bought the identical hull
and engine combo a year earlier, and from that demo I concluded I did
not want the forward vee-seating he opted for. Fortunately, Parker is a
manufacturer who, within reason, will semi-custom its stock boats to
some degree.




I have always purchased a boat from a dealer who had the boats already
in the water for a demo or they could easily get them to the water for a
test ride. I thought it was normal for a test ride until I heard Chuck
and others talking about not having a test ride until your signature was
on the contract. I never asked for a test ride, unless I was seriously
considering the boat, but whenever i asked it for a demo, was never a
big deal.

Another quality boat manufacturer sells out.
 

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
wrote:
On Nov 4, 7:30 am, HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Nov 3, 4:29?pm, HK wrote:
Just read that Albemarle was bought out by Brunswick. Another famous
line goes in the crapper. Cabo was sold last year. Sad to see the
independents disappearing, since they build the best boats.
Where have you been, Harry?
Brunswick has owned Albermarle for quite while now. Basically, they
are built by the same group that makes Hatteras. Many of the upper
tier
trademarks built by Brunswick are pretty darn good boats.
I'm sure they were better boats when the companies that built them were
independent. The newest model Albemarle, for example, is wider and with
less deadrise than the model it will be replacing. That's corporate
conglomerate think for you...take a line of fishing boats and turn them
into something less.

People often think that just because something is made by small
independents that it automatically means better craftmanship and
quality, but that just isn't always true. Larger companies have money
to use for R&D and testing, plus the tools to ensure quality control.


Of course you are correct. I personally would hate to pay for a one off
car. After watching American Hotrod, I would seriously question the
quality of some of these smaller builders. I would assume it is very
similar in with small boat builders.





I wouldn't buy a motorcycle from any of the televised "chopper" show
shops, because it is obvious that the builders are not overly concerned
with the vagaries of metallurgy. Small boat building among the quality
builders is an entirely different proposition; the "flashboat" builders
may change everything every year, but the quality builders do not.

Parker has been building hulls for a long, long time. Most of the hulls
are very similar in design, no matter their length, and so are the
materials, though "thickness" varies. Same with hardware. Same with
assembly. Next year, Parker will introduce a 34-footer with twin 350-hp
Yamahas. I suspect the boat will be very competent.

Another quality boat manufacturer sells out.
 

Eisboch wrote:
"Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in message
...

Eisboch wrote:
Jim Smith

http://www.jimsmithboats.net/HOME.HTML

Eisboch
While these are really nice (and out of my league) boats, are they really
better than a similar equipped Hatteras?

In a word .... yes.

Eisboch



Could you please cut to the chase, you are beginning to sound like Chuck
with your verbose reply.

Another quality boat manufacturer sells out.
 

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
HK wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
HK wrote:

Hatteras no longer is a premier manufacturer of top-end
sportfishing boats. Cabo no longer has its edge. Albemarle is
going to become just another nameplate.

Sad to see, whatever the reasons.



Who is the premier mfg'er of top-end sportfishing boats who has
retained it's edge.



There are top-end sportfishing boats in just about every size
category. If I were in the market for a large Atlantic Ocean
"battlewagon," though, I'd be visiting the independent Carolina
builders.

There are some builders in the Maritime Provinces of Canada who
build some really serious fishing boats.

Are these custom boats or do they have a model line up of different
size sportfishing boats that one can see online or at a boat show?
The reason I ask is I normally think custom boats are more expensive
than similar boats using an existing mold and design.


In the larger sizes, most of the boats are pretty much custom even if
an existing mold is used or stretched or modified. And not all the
boats come out of molds.


There's a relatively new builder of larger custom glass boats...Mirage
something or other. Forty to 60 footers, with Bertram-like hulls in
their lineage. Lots of custom features, very nice. There's a fellow on
a boat discussion board who is having one built for him, and he's
posted a zillion good photos. I'd have to say they are the best
looking (from photos, anyway) glass battlewagons I have seen lately.

Most of the custom builders will have a lineup at the Miami show.
Their customers are glad to help them, so you'll see several owner
boats included at the show.

If you are a serious fisherman, you cannot evaluate a boat by seeing
its photos or specs on line. Even on a bitty boat like my new Parker,
showroom visits alone were not enough, at least not for me. I got the
dealer to arrange a "demo" with a customer who bought the identical
hull and engine combo a year earlier, and from that demo I concluded I
did not want the forward vee-seating he opted for. Fortunately, Parker
is a manufacturer who, within reason, will semi-custom its stock boats
to some degree.




I have always purchased a boat from a dealer who had the boats already
in the water for a demo or they could easily get them to the water for a
test ride. I thought it was normal for a test ride until I heard Chuck
and others talking about not having a test ride until your signature was
on the contract. I never asked for a test ride, unless I was seriously
considering the boat, but whenever i asked it for a demo, was never a
big deal.



Well, it may be a problem on "broker" boats, but I've never had a
problem arranging a demo on a new boat. Even with the one I just boat,
the dealer did not have one in stock, but made a call and arranged a
ride with an owner. Even better, because the boat was a season old and I
could see how it was doing.

Another quality boat manufacturer sells out.
 

HK wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
wrote:
On Nov 4, 7:30 am, HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Nov 3, 4:29?pm, HK wrote:
Just read that Albemarle was bought out by Brunswick. Another famous
line goes in the crapper. Cabo was sold last year. Sad to see the
independents disappearing, since they build the best boats.
Where have you been, Harry?
Brunswick has owned Albermarle for quite while now. Basically, they
are built by the same group that makes Hatteras. Many of the upper
tier
trademarks built by Brunswick are pretty darn good boats.
I'm sure they were better boats when the companies that built them were
independent. The newest model Albemarle, for example, is wider and with
less deadrise than the model it will be replacing. That's corporate
conglomerate think for you...take a line of fishing boats and turn them
into something less.

People often think that just because something is made by small
independents that it automatically means better craftmanship and
quality, but that just isn't always true. Larger companies have money
to use for R&D and testing, plus the tools to ensure quality control.


Of course you are correct. I personally would hate to pay for a one
off car. After watching American Hotrod, I would seriously question
the quality of some of these smaller builders. I would assume it is
very similar in with small boat builders.





I wouldn't buy a motorcycle from any of the televised "chopper" show
shops, because it is obvious that the builders are not overly concerned
with the vagaries of metallurgy. Small boat building among the quality
builders is an entirely different proposition; the "flashboat" builders
may change everything every year, but the quality builders do not.

Parker has been building hulls for a long, long time. Most of the hulls
are very similar in design, no matter their length, and so are the
materials, though "thickness" varies. Same with hardware. Same with
assembly. Next year, Parker will introduce a 34-footer with twin 350-hp
Yamahas. I suspect the boat will be very competent.




I don't think I have seen a Parker on my little body of water, but Grady
Whites are very common. While I would not consider them a small boat
builder, they are not part of a conglomerate. On the lake, they have
clubs who will haul their boats to the ocean for group fishing
tournaments.

By the same token, there are many conglomerate car mfg'ers including BMW
and Lexus who have managed to build a car to the masses and keep quality
at a very high level.

Another quality boat manufacturer sells out.
 

Gene Kearns wrote:
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 13:46:48 -0500, HK penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:


I wouldn't buy a motorcycle from any of the televised "chopper" show
shops, because it is obvious that the builders are not overly concerned
with the vagaries of metallurgy.

....and their impassioned love affair with bondo...


I just love the way they torch those frames, and bang on them with the
hammers if stuff doesn't fit just right, or grind off a support if it is
in the way. Chain doesn't line up properly? Use a spacer.

No thanks.

Another quality boat manufacturer sells out.
 

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
HK wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
wrote:
On Nov 4, 7:30 am, HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Nov 3, 4:29?pm, HK wrote:
Just read that Albemarle was bought out by Brunswick. Another famous
line goes in the crapper. Cabo was sold last year. Sad to see the
independents disappearing, since they build the best boats.
Where have you been, Harry?
Brunswick has owned Albermarle for quite while now. Basically, they
are built by the same group that makes Hatteras. Many of the upper
tier
trademarks built by Brunswick are pretty darn good boats.
I'm sure they were better boats when the companies that built them
were
independent. The newest model Albemarle, for example, is wider and
with
less deadrise than the model it will be replacing. That's corporate
conglomerate think for you...take a line of fishing boats and turn
them
into something less.

People often think that just because something is made by small
independents that it automatically means better craftmanship and
quality, but that just isn't always true. Larger companies have money
to use for R&D and testing, plus the tools to ensure quality control.


Of course you are correct. I personally would hate to pay for a one
off car. After watching American Hotrod, I would seriously question
the quality of some of these smaller builders. I would assume it is
very similar in with small boat builders.





I wouldn't buy a motorcycle from any of the televised "chopper" show
shops, because it is obvious that the builders are not overly
concerned with the vagaries of metallurgy. Small boat building among
the quality builders is an entirely different proposition; the
"flashboat" builders may change everything every year, but the quality
builders do not.

Parker has been building hulls for a long, long time. Most of the
hulls are very similar in design, no matter their length, and so are
the materials, though "thickness" varies. Same with hardware. Same
with assembly. Next year, Parker will introduce a 34-footer with twin
350-hp Yamahas. I suspect the boat will be very competent.




I don't think I have seen a Parker on my little body of water, but Grady
Whites are very common. While I would not consider them a small boat
builder, they are not part of a conglomerate. On the lake, they have
clubs who will haul their boats to the ocean for group fishing tournaments.

By the same token, there are many conglomerate car mfg'ers including BMW
and Lexus who have managed to build a car to the masses and keep quality
at a very high level.




Gradys are great boats, very similar in construction if not in looks to
Parkers. I'd buy one, but they are just "too fancy" for my style of
feeeeshing. I have no idea why Gradys would be big sellers on Lake
Lanier or any other small inland lake.

Another quality boat manufacturer sells out.
 

On Nov 5, 2:51?am, HK wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 20:32:58 -0800, Tim wrote:

Does that high transom, dead transmission RV of yours have wood in its
hullsides or bottom? Well, hopefully if it does, it isn't balsa
"Balsa" = "Bayliner"

Quite a few supposedly high quality sailboats have also been built
with balsa cored hulls. Many of them have turned into expensive
junk.

I'm sure Chuck will tell us of the virtues of balsa as a core material.
I wouldn't even consider buying a boat with a balsa core. I also don't
buy into the boat broker b.s. that osmosis blistering is no big deal.
Those guys will do anything to move used boats. I don't want a boat
whose bottom is as pustuled and pockmarked as a $3.00 whore.

In specific locations, balsa is a fine coring material. I don't like
to see it below the waterline. It has been used very successfully for
decks, cabin tops, etc. Balsa is rapidly being replaced by better
materials that won't absorb water, and some of the most respected
brand names core the entire hull. Cabin soles are commonly cored with
Nidacor these days, but that was an application where balsa was
commonly used and seldom a problem in the past.

They overriding principle is that a boat should be well made, with
structural integrity that exceeds the most stringent demands ever
likely to be placed upon it. You encounter competing theories about
how best to go about this, but it is certainly possible to use more
than a single material and more than a single technique to manufacture
a quality hull.

(One of the more humorous marketing stories locally includes two firms
who go after one another tooth and nail pretty regularly. One of the
firms offers boats with a cored hull, the other does not.....*except*
the very largest boat built by the second firm, something retailing
for between $1-2mm does include a cored hull. The salespeople at the
primarily non-cored dealership are quick to condemn cored hulls as
unsafe, unseaworthy, and likely to require catastrophic expense to
maintain and repair- after all 99% of their business is on the smaller
boats and not the flagship. The salespeople at the dealership offering
boats with cored hulls simply keep a few copies of their competitor's
brochure for the megayacht model and when the customers show up and
begin remarking how the guys at Brand X condemned cored hulls, they
simply produce the brochure and say, "If it's good enough for their
top of the line model, it's good enough for all of our customers
regardless of what they decide to budget for a boat.")


With crude oil well over $90/bbl and forecast to hit $100 by the end
of the year, we could easily see $4- $4-50 a gallon at gas stations
and
maybe $6 at fuel docks during next spring's annual gas gouge. If
boating is to survive as a pastime and if the manufacturers hope to
sell enough boats to survive, the industry has to get some weight out
of the boats without sacrificing strength. The solid, hand rolled
laminate hull is being supplanted with better alternatives, made
possible in part by vacuum infused molding.

As for blisters, here are some comments from a marine surveyor who
hates brokers and the marine industry in general almost as much as you
do. :-)

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/BuyingBlisterBoat.htm


It's fine to say you personally prefer to avoid a blistered boat. You
are unlikely to ever have blisters, as you buy your boats new and the
last one logged less than 120 hours in the water over a four year
period of time. But if you want to insist that the common industry
consensus that cosmetic blistering doesn't particularly effect the
structural inegrity of a hull is incorrect, something stronger than
dismissing that consensus as mere "broker BS" would be in order.

By the way, the use of one of the non-glass fiber components in modern
layups ( a layer of vinylester roving under the gelcoat) has
significantly reduced the propensity for most boats to blister.