When would you board someone else's boat??
 

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:31:39 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

I don't have time right now to answer your longer questions, but let me ask
you one:

Do YOU let YOUR dog out of the house and let it roam the neighborhood
sometimes?


No, I don't as a rule. However, she has gotten off of her leash on
occasion, and I have had to chase her around the neighborhood, in
order to bring her back, which is not fun.

During the winter, I was just letting her out of the back door, since
she usually would stay within the confines of the back yard. Once the
snow melted, and she started to wander again, it was back to the rope.
Of course it's all a moot point now since I had her put down a few
months back. She was over 14 years old, and in failing health,
including incontinence. So I was doing a great deal of carpet
cleaning.

Dave

When would you board someone else's boat??
 

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 20:15:23 -0400, "Don"
wrote:


"Dave Hall" wrote
Right, which is why someone who is as concerned about crop damage as
you are, would be well advised to take preventative measure, such as
erecting a fence. Don't rely on everyone else to protect your
investment. You have as much (if not more) responsibility to keep your
valuables away from harm.

Was this clipped from the Marxist manifesto? Seriously.....LOL

You really need to study marxism and socialism. Seriously.......

If you think that personal responsibility is a socialist trait, you
are really out there......


Dave

When would you board someone else's boat??
 

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:49:30 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:21:47 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:



Who said anything about SENDING the dog over. Pardon the pun, but ****
happens. It's not the dog's fault that you live in its toilet.


If your answer is "yes", then you must also
believe I have the right to roll my trash barrel down to HIS property
and
dump it on his porch.

You are supposed to know better. A dog does not.

You're a piece of work, boy. The neighbor knows that he is doing wrong by
letting the dog roam.

Does he?

Let's make this simple, Dave. There are only two kinds of property: Yours,
and someone else's. If the dog ****s or destroys things on your property,
that's fine. If the dog leaves your property and ****s/destroys, it's doing
so on someone else's property. Now, please explain how any dog owner can see
his dog leave his property and say "I didn't know it was going to mess up
someone else's property".


Ok, if we stick to your binary view of property, you are either on
your property or someone else's. When you leave your property, am I to
assume that you are intending to damage someone else's property?

Assuming that a dog owner knows that the dog has left his property
(And many don't), while you may assume that they may mark some
territory along the way, many times they roam just to roam.
You seem to harbor this notion that dogs do nothing but destroy
things. A notion brought about from your hatred of dogs, no doubt.


Of course in reality, there are places where property is either public
or government owned. Not all property is private.

Dave

When would you board someone else's boat??
 

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 20:47:16 -0400, "Don"
wrote:

You're trying to debate with a socialist.
It's not possible to do so, they lack the intellect.
The best you can do is ridicule them.

Doug knows me well enough to know that I'm no socialist. You're
relatively new here. The only one who's being ridiculed is yourself
when you make obviously uninformed statements.

Doug may be somewhat off the mark, but he is at least intelligent
enough to research things. You would do well to follow that example
before running your fingers without your brain being fully engaged.

Dave

When would you board someone else's boat??
 

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:36:37 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:19:03 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:



And if I found a way to somehow occupy 20% of YOUR weekend time with
bull**** that annoyed you, and repeated this every weekend for the entire
summer, what would YOU do? Suffer with it in silence?

That would make you my wife ;-) . Oh, and I WOULD be ****ed off.
Don't get me wrong, I sympathize with your pain. I just don't agree
that you have the right to take the law into your own hands as a
solution.


Dave

I didn't ask for your opinion. I asked what you would do.

I'm not sure. I know what I wouldn't do and that's kill another living
being.

I tend to be more of a "defense" mentality, rather than an "offense"
mentality. If I found that there were "critters" doing damage to my
yard, I would most likely take steps to minimize their ability to
enter my yard. Rather than getting into a ****ing contest with my
neighbor (And remember we have to live here and maintaining civility
with the neighbors is important), I'd just put up a fence.

I believe in personal responsibility to the truest sense. I take
responsibility for things that I have direct control over. I don't
expect other people to clear the path for me, and I don't expect other
people to expect me to clear their path either.

I believe in taking steps to protect my own assets, I don't believe
that it's other people's responsibility to protect them for me. While
some people can be deliberately negligent, the line between what I
consider "gross" and "incidental" negligence is a bit foggy, and not
etched in stone. Dog poop on my yard though, falls squarely into the
"incidental" category. In the grand scheme of things, it's just not
that big of a deal to me.

Dave

When would you board someone else's boat??
 

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:36:02 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .


That is fair.
However, I went one step further, to insure your civility. We installed a
6'
high estate fence around our new home so that your dog will not cause you
to
get killed.
See how nice I am?

Funny that in all the posts that I've suggested the same to Doug, he
fails to consider it. I guess in his mind, he should not have to be
"burdened" with the chore of constructing a fence to keep the unwanted
out of his garden. He feels that it's everyone else's responsibility
to keep them out for him.

A fence would've shaded the garden and made it more difficult for my GOOD
neighbor and I to keep the lawn trimmed neatly.

It's called a "weed whacker". They work just fine.


We could've gotten around
the problem of shade by installing chain link, but we didn't like the looks
of those.

How much shade does a 4 or 5 foot fence provide? You could 've used a
post/rail fence with mesh attached. It's more aesthetically pleasing
and does not block sun.


repeatedly?

Why do you guys like to go to the extreme and out of the realm of
reality when trying top make points? Strawman arguments are easy to
pick apart because they do not reflect reality. I'm not suggesting
that you don't have the right to respond to inconsiderate neighbors. I
am saying that you are restricted by law to a measured response.

So, you're familiar with the law here in my town?

I'm familiar with the laws in general. Unless you live in six-gun
territory, it's likely that your laws are not much different.

Dave

When would you board someone else's boat??
 

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:02:12 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

I would challenge that you seem to be the one projecting the fixation
with dog poop. You are the one making the big deal about it. Most
other people just let nature take its course.

Dave

Let nature take its course? That's what I've been saying all along. But,
here's the difference: I acknowledge that nature sometimes works in ways
that are sad.

Nature does not include guns. Nor do animals kill for sport or
revenge. But a few weeks of rain will dissolve dog droppings.

I don't think it's funny when I see a lion kill a gazelle on
TV, but as you say, "**** happens".

Yes, and if you truly needed to hunt the neighbor's dog to provide
food for your family, it would be a different issue.


Usually, the gazelle which ends up as lunch
made some sort of mistake, not unlike some dogs.

Natural selection does not include revenge for an infraction.

Dave

When would you board someone else's boat??
 

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:57:30 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:56:11 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
Yeah...I got your behavioral psychology right here, Mr King. :-) Dr
Smith &
Dr Wesson. The best dog training tool money can buy.

But it only works on six dogs at a time. And bullets don't go around
corners ;)

I apologize if my posts have seemed to be more sympathetic to your
annoying neighbors than to your situation. That hasn't been my
intention. While I am definitely a "dog person" I don't like people who
let (or encourage) their dogs to cause problems.

DSK


I know. The average of all your posts in the past have kept you on my
Good
List, meaning I'd let you borrow my lawnmower. Not my boat, though. :-)


Hopefully he won't run over any "doggie donuts" when he borrows that
lawn mower...........

Dave

You keep returning to the word "donuts", Dave. Do you enjoy handling them?

That is the name that I coined to describe them to my daughter. I find
it to be a much better reference than the more typical vile forms.

I don't need to resort to vulgarity to make a point.

Dave

When would you board someone else's boat??
 

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:50:37 -0400, DSK wrote:

Dave Hall wrote:
... I guess in his mind, he should not have to be
"burdened" with the chore of constructing a fence to keep the unwanted
out of his garden. He feels that it's everyone else's responsibility
to keep them out for him.

Still refusing to take responsibility for your actions, eh Dave? Well a
leapord never changes his spots.

It *is* the responsibility of every pet owner to keep his pet out of
other peoples' yards.

Same as it *is* the responsibility of every boater to operate his vessel
safely, and it *is* the responsibility of every boater to not create a
large wake in places where it isn't wanted. Funny how you cannot grasp
the simple principles of responsibility & accountability.


I grasp it just fine. The difference is that you believe that personal
responsibility extends to cover things and situations that you have no
direct control over, or to events where you could not reasonably
predict an outcome.

I believe that each person is responsible to protect his own safety
and property irrespective of the actions of others. What this means in
black and white is that I don't expect others to make it "safe" for me
to boat, I take steps to protect myself. I don't expect other people
to keep their pets off of my lawn, if it means that much to me, I'll
put up a fence to keep them off.

If I get into an accident in my car because I hit an icy patch, I'm
not going to sue the tire manufacturer because the tire didn't hold.
Nor am i going to sue the town because they missed a spot with their
salt trucks. If my boat gets rocked and I spill my drink, I'm not
going to chase after the "offender" and make him clean up the mess.
Sometimes you have to understand that things happen, and take measures
on you own to minimize their effects. Going through life expecting
other people to acknowledge me, and my particular needs, is IMHO
irresponsible.

That doesn't mean that I'm giving people a pass on negligent behavior.
It's just that I hold the bar on what is considered "negligent" much
higher than you seem to.

What you consider "personal responsibility" is not personal
responsibility at all, but "societal responsibility", which is far
more at home in a socialist state than a democracy.

Dave

When would you board someone else's boat??
 

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:05:59 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Dave Hall wrote:
... I guess in his mind, he should not have to be
"burdened" with the chore of constructing a fence to keep the unwanted
out of his garden. He feels that it's everyone else's responsibility
to keep them out for him.

Still refusing to take responsibility for your actions, eh Dave? Well a
leapord never changes his spots.

It *is* the responsibility of every pet owner to keep his pet out of
other peoples' yards.

Same as it *is* the responsibility of every boater to operate his vessel
safely, and it *is* the responsibility of every boater to not create a
large wake in places where it isn't wanted. Funny how you cannot grasp
the simple principles of responsibility & accountability.

DSK


It's called "selective personal responsibility".

No, it's called personal responsibility as opposed to societal
responsibility.

Hey....here's a question for little Dave: The law in most towns says that if
you have a pool, you must have a fence with a gate that locks. Do you think
that's nonsense, and that it should be up to the neighbors to keep their
kids from drowning in your pool?

It's interesting you should bring this up. Using your mindset, parents
should make sure that their kids do not roam on to your lawn. It's
THEIR responsibility to protect the safety of their immature children.
I would tend to agree that it's a parent's responsibility to tend to
the well being of their kids.

I have mixed feelings about the pool/fence thing. On the one hand,
unauthorized people have no business trespassing on your yard, and any
problems they get into should be on them. On the other hand, since
many laws are made to protect the irresponsible, they transferred the
responsibility to everyone else when they require you to prevent kids
from wandering into your pool. But while I disagree with the law in
principle, the amount of effort to put up a fence is not that great,
and if it saves even one life, it's probably worth it.

For the record again Doug, I do not disagree with you that dog owners
should be more responsible with their dogs roaming habits. I just
don't agree that you have the right to kill the dog who gets away more
often than not.

Dave