BoatBanter.com - When would you board someone else's boat??

In article , (Bob D.) wrote:

In article . net,
(Henry Blackmoore) wrote:

In article ,
(Bob D.) wrote:

I don't agree with Doug's specific comments about ignoring distress calls,
or watching a boat burn, but then again, I'm not taking what he says
literally as much reading in stating two underlying points:

Why not take them literally? He means them literally and he even says so.

I did not take Doug literally because I chose not to take Doug
literally. IMHO there is OFTEN a difference in what someone says what
they intend to do out of the emotion of a heated discussion, and what
they do when faced wth the reality of the situation. If Doug said he
watched a boat sink, or refused to aid in a distress call based upon a
previous experience with the boat's owner, then yes, I would have no
choice but to take his statements literally. He didn't. Even if he did,
that was HIS choice, and even if I don't agree with that choice I have to
consider that he did not go out of his way to cause harm, and I do not
know all the details of his decision; therefore, I cannot conclude he is a
person completely without redeeming qualities as you seem to be
suggesting.

If you cannot conclude that a person who would ignore a boater's distress
and actually help to sink their boat along with some of the other sick
and disturbing statements along the lines of revenge and vigilantism and
you can't come to a few simple conclusions (like such a person not
being worthy of being called a "boater" or a "seaman") then you are
quite the simpleton.

I really think you need to lighten up, Henry. Look at the general
viewpoint not just keywords. Neither Doug or myself have aimed any
personal attack against you.

Really? Do you wear blinders or are you just a Dougie groupie and a chump to
boot? How about READING his posts?

Yet you seem to be pretty nasty, on a
personal level, in voicing your dissent.

If everyone took every single
post word for word and not the INTENT of the author

Doug made his positions very clear and even reiterated them a several times.
Again, how about reading his threads? Hello?

then the bickering
would never end. Though it's beginning to look like some of us just like
to "play mean" in our little sandbox for the sake of "playing mean"
doesn't it?

That's right, read a few selective posts and jump right in judging the
situation when you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

1. It takes so little effort and time to show consideration for other
people.
2. You can't go through life not giving a **** about the people
around you,
while carrying expectations that everyone should give a ****
about you.

later sock puppet....

When people forget or ignore these simple truisms, which IMHO are needed
for society to function, all bets are off. Forget them and antagonize
someone who is having a bad day, and bad things can happen. When bad
things do happen to the social offender, while the punishment might not
fit the crime, I have a hard time considering them to be the victim, so in
an effort to avoid these "bad things" I would suggest:

3. Never assume somone's inconsideration towards you is a deliberate
act.

I personally will act with goodwill and assume the person committing their
offense to me is goodhearted but oblivious as to their actions. As such,
I will ignore it if it is the first time the offense occurred with that
party, if the action could be deemed as non-deliberate, AND the action
doesn't persist for a great deal of time. If those criteria are not met,
I will tactfully talk with them in hopes of reaching a solution.
Sometimes the solution consists only of hearing a reasonable explanation
as to why the offending behavior is occuring.

Should these steps fail, I'm moving further into Doug's camp.

Doug is a mentally unstable vigilante type. You are of that persuasion too?

Doug may be a "mentally unstable vigilante type" I don't presume to know
either way. Once again I don't agree with Doug "word for word" but I do
share Doug's opinions of "personal responsibility" and "reaping what you
sow". Add to this the fact that I always give people the benefit of the
doubt, believing that their hurtful actions were unintentional, until I
have proof otherwise. I'd say in a nutshell portrays me a tolerant and
reasonable person, who seeks to resolve differences through
communication. If those difference cannot be discussed reasonably then I
will stick up for what I believe in and take a harder line, preferably
within the law, but if the behavior is bad enough (e.g raping my mother,
girlfriend, daughter), I'd have to admit I'm not evolved enough to claim I
would never stray outside the law.

As for calling "mental stability" to question, you've never interacted
with me, met me in person, you've probably read only a handful of my post,
and what you've read you blatantly out of context in a very self-serving
manner. And while most people can tell I need to take a typing class or
use a spell-checker, you seem to suggest that you can actually infer my
mental health from my agreements on points of somone you take issue with?
With undergrad majors in psychology and sociology, take what I say
serioulsly when I say you have rare gift indeed....

Oh I won't
ignore that distress call or refuse to help save their boat, but when I
help them, I'll be reminding them who I was and how they offended me,

So somebody is drowning and their boat sinking and you will be bringing
up petty ass bull**** and rubbing it in while you are helping to rescue
them?
Maybe you are in Doug's "camp" after all?

Hmmmm.... who said "petty ass bull****?", Henry. Who said "sinking",
Henry? Who says that I will lecture them the moment I rescue them from
drowning? YOU DID, NOT ME! Please, don't make up a situation in such
absolute terms than use it to put words in my mouth, it does a disservice
to both of us.

To clarify, I'm not taking about someone who just accidently ****ed me off
one time. I'm talking about flamming assholes who have repeatedly blast
their stereo at 3 am after they staggered back to their boat from the
bars, or parties who repeatedly decided they should rev their unmuffled
engines at 4am so they can impress the girls they picked up. I'm talking
about people who ELECT to do these things, despite posted rules, and
repeated requests to stop. At 3am or 4am deeming this as blatantly rude
behavior is not a "subjective" standard as you allude to, therefore the
request to stop is a VERY reasonable one (not a ****y one), so what is
wrong with being outraged when then request is repeatedly ignored?

While the circumstance hasn't happened, so I can't state with 100%
certainty, should the assholes in those vessels need my assistance, I'm
guessing that I would take a certain satisfaction at their situation. In
an effort to be open and reasonable with you, I'll even concede your point
that the satisfaction I take is a character flaw of me personaly and not a
indicative of human nature in general. In fact, I will freely admit I am
far from perfect. I'm sure a select few people can provoke "my bad side"
to the point of retaliation, but that would take a very deliberate act to
invoke the response on their part, with my consequences coming with ample
warning.

Since you felt the need to fault my weakness in taking this satisfaction,
if you can honestly say that you would not derive ANY satisfaction from
seeing someone who intentionally made you miserable get kicked by karma,
if you can honestly say that you can NEVER be provoked to retaliation,
then at least within the confines of this discussion, you are a bigger and
better person than I am. Unfortunately, any statement you would make,
putting you in a better light would, IMHO, be overshadowed by the cheap
shots, name calling, judgemental, and narrow-minded absolute statements
coming from posts with YOUR name on them.

How I'd love for you to prove me wrong, about your being a bigger person,
Henry. Actions speak louder than words, and I have always been moved to
learn from the good example of others. If I had my way, I'd send the
aforementioned assholes to your marina. After you've worked your ass off
all week for a relaxing weekend, you can demonstrate to me your more
evolved sensibility as they excercise their god given right to disturb
their neighbors at all hours without any comment or retaliation. It
would be worth losing a few nights sleep to witness someone with such an
evolved sensibility, and be proven wrong.

smiling, knowing there's a little divine justice in my small corner of the
world. In addition, should they continue their actions, I'll do whatever
is necessary to lessen their action's impact upon me, stop their actions,
or teach them consideration, regardless of the consequences, as I have
absolutely no desire to live in a world where inconsideration for others
becomes an acceptable behavior.

So you in effect are using "inconsideration for others" to fight
inconsideration for others and damn any laws? Your perceived
standards of acceptable behavior becomes the basis for your anti-social
and unacceptable (acceptable to you) behavior towards others. That is
pretty deep. Have you sought help for this yet?

Once again Henry, except for the circumstances Doug outlined, where did I
specifically say I would be inconsiderate? Did I EVER say that this is
EVER my first course of action. No,, Henry. In fact, in my previous
post, I carefully spelled out that I have ALWAYS made attempts to reason
with someone who was being inconsiderate, and work within the law. Yet
you repeatedly ignore this fact and take exception to the fact that I will
take a stand when all else fails, using your keen insight to declare me a
vigilante and suggest I need to seek help? Excuse me, but I have to ask,
what are your credentials? Assuming your a therapist, what methods to
you use to get your patients to acquiesce to the systematic victimization
that we should all be excercising?

Perhaps you have never had stand up for your beliefs and take matters into
your own hands, which is not necessarily a bad thing. Once again, I may
have to concede you are a bigger person than myself. However, judging by
your juvenille postings, I'm guessing it more likely you either lacked the
fortitude, or were blessed with the luck of not being in a situation bad
enough, to be provoked out of your "evolved" state of mind, rather than
attributing your tolerance to any strength of character.

In the case Doug presented, should I go through all the actions he
described: Tolerance, communication, inaction from the authorities, then
being told to screw myself. It will come down to three choices for the
inconsidrate *******. Fix your exhaust. Compromise with me and learn to
leave quickly and get use to being a little less comfortable on your drive
to work in the winter, or be alot less comfortable changing tires in that
same winter climate.

Are you a Dougie sock puppet?

Ha Ha Ha... yippeee! More name calling! Have you sufficiently entertained
yourself, Henry?

For those who think "rubbing their nose in their own mess" is wrong for
dogs or people, I've trained several dogs, and many people (when I had
to) that way, and they seemed to learn the intended lesson just fine.

Dogs have very short attention spans. You have to catch them in the act to
correct any errant behavior. The only thing that they will learn by rubbing
their noses in their own **** is that want him to eat feces. The dog will
also learn to be afraid of you and also to be afraid of eliminating in
your presence. Only an ignorant lout would train a dog the way you have
described. Do you advocate hitting your dogs too?

With your abhorrent dog-training skills I shudder to think about your ability
to handle & deal with people.

Well I guess dogs aren't the only ones with short attention spans eh
Henry? Okey Dokey, Henry. Since you insist on listing pointless nits and
derailing the subject (an excellent indication of a weak argument, IMHO),
I'll indulge you just this once!

My abhorrent dog training skills have worked for me. The several dogs
I've had were affectionate, playful, happy, and, despite what your
"extensive knowledge on canine behavior" says, NEVER CONSTIPATED. The
dogs I have had have lived very long and pampered lives and were adored by
me as loving faithful companions, but in the interest of a greater good,
they have had boundries and consequences for violating those boundries.
Yes I'll smack a dog, Henry, if that's what's needed to make the dog stop
an objectionable behavior. Henry, I'll even use corporeal l punishment on
my kids as well. My God, what an unenlightened lout I am! Please note:
There is a difference in correcting and abusing. I normally wouldn't cite
this, but based upon your responses, your of olympic caliber in the
conclusion jump....

I love animals and children, adults, and the world in general. As such
tough choices have to be made to make a better environment for everyone.
Often that choice involves dicipline. If my dog ****es, ****s, or chews
funiture in a house, they will not be welcome in the homes of my friends
and family and therefore their quality of life ultimately suffers for
them. If my dog jumps out of the boat and runs away, humps or bites the
children in the marina, or if I am not diligent in cleaning up after them,
then the dog will have to be locked in my boat's cabin when I leave. My
reasonable, and consistent discipline results in a well behaved dog I can
take with me more often and have subject to less restraint in familair
places (at the consent of others, of course). As such, the two dogs I had
as an adult lived to be 13 and 14, spending less than three weeks of that
time in a kennel. My current dogs behavior indicates that she will never
know a kennel she is that loved in the places we visit. So if I have to
occasionally rub a dogs nose in **** or slap their nose or behind for this
greater good, then I'll happily plead guilty to your accusations of being
a lout as charged.

As for my daughter, it's the same thing. I personally feel too many
people want to take the "hands off" approach or be "more creative" in
their parenting. My experience has been this lack of consistent and
absolute consequences often results in spoiled kids that will face a far
harsher discipline from the world when they go through life never having
learned consideration for others, reasoning, or working and compromising
to get what they want. I should know, my mom was to busy to instill what
I needed to learn, and I had a harder time as an adult than I would ever
care to have any kid go through, let alone my own. I'm fortunate that
I've only have to spank the point across to my daughter a few times, but
in my effort to raise a woman who is able to cope and thrive in the real
world, I'll do whatever it takes, regardless of how some arrogant outsider
with limited information on the situation perceives my actions.

When it comes to people, I'm the same way. I'm very good with people from
all social classes and all walks of life. Although I am a little
reserved, at the slightest goodwill, I will extend my warmest
hospitality. It's one of the reasons I love boating so much, it an
enviroment that encourages social behavior. Being imperfect, I have many
faults. I tend to be less friendly with abusive people, those who see
the everything in absolute "this is right" "this is wrong" terms, with no
shades of gray, those who are arrogant or self boastful, those who
"posture" in a social situations, those who don't take the time to
consider other peoples feelings, or people who take liberties at the
expense of others, and those who would rather argue a point at all cost
rather than be open to reason.

I've learned that I can be wrong about my assessment of someone character
and to keep my mouth shut. I'm always re-learning I need to distance
myself from people I don't like. If I can't distance myself and their
behavior is that objectionable, I've leaarned to approach them with
respect and tact, and work to resolve the issue. If they are reasonable,
I often make a new friend and both parties are richer for the experience.
Since I believe coutesy is for everyone, not just the other guy, I think
tactfully saying whats on your mind and pointing out inconsiderate
behavior benefits us all. If we all took time to consider how our
actions impacted others the world would be a better place. Of course
feel free to disagree with me here.

For
those who spout asserting my beliefs will eventually lead me to be
victimized by a CCW, it is noted. But then again, I may have a CCW too
and *I might* just be a quicker and better shot than the inconsiderate
******* I'm trying to reason with, so I hope any inconsiderate *******s
take note as well :^)

CCW or not. If you insist on acting out on your vigilante fantasies one
day the pigeons will come home to roost. One reaps what they sow
in life.

Bob D.

Very interesting. Just in this post alone, I've read how you took my
remarks completely out of context, without any provocation retorted to
name calling, called my character into question, hurled nasty remarks
about my mental stability, called to question my ability to deal with the
animals and people in my life that you've never met, then insist (despite
my posts to the contrast) upon continuing to take my words of my post out
of context use those select words to arrive at the conclusion that I am
hell bent on acting out "vigilante fantasies"? Then you have the nerve to
preach to me: "hoping I reap what I sow"?

You sir, are entertaining!

Yes Henry, I am a bit of an idealist. I do believe in personal
responsibility , and reaping what one sows. I have gotten knocked on my
ass for doing the wrong thing, and walked away smarter. I HAVE gotten
knocked on my ass for standing on my principles, but I'll do it again
because I truly believe that SOMEHOW people have to know when their making
others miserable and learn consideration. I wholeheartedly believe that
excercising and instilling politeness and courtesy not just for the "other
guy". Leaving others to deal when the inconsiderate assholes when heads
down the road, is avoiding responsibility. If one chooses to ignore truly
inconsiderate behavior one, is just as responsible for it occurrence.
Obviosly (to most people) like anything else I've stated this is flexible
with the circumstances.

As I have in the past, I'll stand up any day and reap what I sow. Henry,
will you stand up next to me and reap the efforts of your bickering,
finger pointing, name calling, and general hatred that you've sowed
today? Your post speaks volumes about your online personality. I only
hope that it is just that, an anonymous online personality of someone who
needs to provocatively lash out at online blow off some real world
steam. If this is the case, have fun continuing your nasty little
remarks. I'll rest easy thinking hurtful little troll on rec.boats is
probably a nicer person in the real world.

Sincerely,

Bob Dimond