When would you board someone else's boat??
 

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:45:09 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 15:56:38 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .

Some people bitch a bit too much. Learn to cut some slack and deal
with it.

We both know why you jumped into THIS particular discussion, don't we,
Dave?
:-)


No, why don't you tell us?

Dave

No, Dave. It's not my job to help you with these things.


You're the one who posed the supposedly rhetorical question. By your
act of doing so, you are then taking on the role of "all-knowing".
Consequently, I gave you the chance to validate your statement, by
further imparting your wisdom on us. Since you chose not to, I'll have
to correct my earlier assumption.......

Dave
http://home.ptd.net/~n3cvj

Enjoy the assumption, Dave.

When would you board someone else's boat??
 

True. But if someone's inside your home, you don't need to feel ANYTHING.
You're entitled to shoot. It's always wiser not to, though. The paperwork is
outrageous and the police don't clean up the mess for you.

"John Smith" wrote in message
news:8H7ic.9827$w96.1023873@attbi_s54...
What you said was "....The *law* says that if you touch my stuff, I am
required to shoot your
stupid ass in the face. Get it?"

What the law really says is you can not use deadly force unless a
reasonable
man would feel in danger of his life. If you shot someone because they
touched your stuff, you would be charged with murder.



"Don" wrote in message
...
John, you better straighten up your act or you will be sent to the
corner
for contemplation.
Where in my single sentence below did I mention dogs?

"John Smith" wrote in message
news:vr%hc.5371$YP5.524839@attbi_s02...
Don,
Again, I am confused, are you saying if your neighbors dog takes a
crap
in
your lawn, you are required by law to shot him in the face?


"Don" wrote in message
...
"Henry Blackmoore" wrote
Show me where the laws in a suburban area in this country have
been
interpreted to allow a homeowner to hide under the guise of
growing
"food
crops" while killing his neighbors dog or cats? Garden be damned.

The *law* says that if you touch my stuff, I am required to shoot
your
stupid ass in the face. Get it?

When would you board someone else's boat??
 

"John Smith" wrote in message
news:nU7ic.10331$IW1.713713@attbi_s52...
I have no idea if it is legal to shot a dog because he comes into your
garden, but I know I could never kill a dog for that reason. If a dog was
running free and crapping in my garden I would call animal control and
have
the dog picked up. If the neighbor was being unreasonable and was not
honoring my request to keep his animal off of my property, I would file a
suit with small claims court.

I can't believe that two people in this small group, would advocate
killing
a defense animal due to their neighbors neglect.

Yours and Don's statements say more about who you are, than anything I or
anyone else could say.

Unlike Henry, you sound like a guy who has the mental capacity to mull over
a hypothetical situation. In fact, this is based on reality. Here goes:

1) The animal control person fails to do his job after 15 phonecalls. The
excuses are absurd.

2) The neighbor promises to improve the situation, but does absolutely
nothing.

3) You go to court and are told that it's not a small claims issue.

4) It's the middle of May, and you've put 200 hours of work into the
vegetable garden so far. It's literally being destroyed by a dog which digs
there.

Now what?

When would you board someone else's boat??
 

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 03:41:03 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


I'm simply helping him understand laws he is 100% unfamiliar with. The
same
laws I've become 100% familiar with in order to enjoy the simple pleasure
of
a vegetable garden in the midst of a few neighbors who don't care.


How do you manage that, when you've stated not that long ago, that you
live in an apartment complex?

Dave

One last time, Dave. Write this down and don't ask again.

1) I owned a home until 2 years ago when I got divorced. I lived in it for
close to 20 years.
2) I have lived in an apartment from the time I left the home until now.
3) I am voraciously shopping for another home right now.

Got it?

PS: In my apartment is a tenant whose dog craps all over the small grassy
area that's supposed to be shared by everyone. The crap on the lawn makes it
seem like she was trying to create a perfect grid, with a pile every 2 feet
or so in every direction. The landlord is clueless as to how to handle it.

Dogs are universal. It doesn't matter where you live.

When would you board someone else's boat??
 

Doug Kanter wrote:
... In my apartment is a tenant whose dog craps all over the small grassy
area that's supposed to be shared by everyone. The crap on the lawn makes it
seem like she was trying to create a perfect grid, with a pile every 2 feet
or so in every direction. The landlord is clueless as to how to handle it.

Here's a suggestion... write a polite note and tape it to the dog
owner's door. Suggest that he clean up after his dog. Give him two days,
or until the very next time he doesn't clean up. Then (this is the
unpleasant part) you get a trash bag, and using it inside out so as to
minimize unpleasantness, gather all the deposits. Now tape the bag to
the neighbor's door.

Another option is to explain to scout around for a dog-free place to
live, and tell the landlord that if he doesn't fix the situation you are
going to move and hold him responsible for your expenses since he has
violated your lease terms.

About being polite... good manners always improve any situation.
Besides, if fuming & cussing is your default mode, how can people tell
when you're *really* mad? For example, 2 cultures, Southerners &
Japanese, are both very polite... and they are also both very dangerous
to have ****ed off at you.



Dogs are universal. It doesn't matter where you live.

It's not the dog that's the problem.

DSK

When would you board someone else's boat??
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message news:XL8ic.2312
Unlike Henry, you sound like a guy who has the mental capacity to mull over
a hypothetical situation. In fact, this is based on reality. Here goes:

1) The animal control person fails to do his job after 15 phonecalls. The
excuses are absurd.

2) The neighbor promises to improve the situation, but does absolutely
nothing.

3) You go to court and are told that it's not a small claims issue.

4) It's the middle of May, and you've put 200 hours of work into the
vegetable garden so far. It's literally being destroyed by a dog which
digs
there.

Now what?



At this point I probably would pick up the dog's **** and place it on the
hood of his car.

When would you board someone else's boat??
 

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...

I'm simply helping him understand laws he is 100% unfamiliar with. The
same
laws I've become 100% familiar with in order to enjoy the simple pleasure
of
a vegetable garden in the midst of a few neighbors who don't care.


Well, I can remember a case that I saw on one of those TV court shows
(I know, not the best forum) where a neighbor had problems with a cat
or dog tearing up their garden, and after finally having enough, set
out some rat poison. The neighbor's pet ate it and died. The pet
owner figured out what happened and sued the "killer" and was awarded
damages for her loss.

Two things: First of all, the guy who killed the pet didn't finish the job.
He should wrapped it in a trash bag and taken it to a dumpster. Either way,
he was rid of the problem. Second: It's highly likely that the pet owner
learned to keep her next animal where it belonged.


The laws you referenced were put into place to cover wild animals
destroying commercial crops, not domestic pets invading a vegetable
garden.

The law here does not specify animals by species. Any uncontrolled animal is
"wild". And, answer a question which I posed to one of the Patsy Twins: How
large do YOU think a vegetable garden has to be before YOU consider it a
food source which, if threatened, is the same as someone sticking a knife in
your face and demanding your wallet?

In an earlier post, you remarked about the intrinsic "value"
of crops versus that of destructive animals as some sort of
justification for killing them. In the case of wild animals, the
"value" of commercial crops would seem to exceed the "value" of
rabbits, deer, or other indigenous wildlife.

Commercial crops? Who are YOU to determine the monetary value of the food I
grow? One year, I got a 20x40 area to crank out what we estimated to be over
$800.00 worth of food.


But pets are another
matter. People place a high "value" on their pets, and as such, they
are not as arbitrary and subject to the same considerations WRT
intrinsic value versus a wild animal.

Correction: ***SOME*** people place a high value on their pets. The ones who
let dogs roam the neighborhood do NOT. Those people have clearly
demonstrated that they want their dogs to be hit by cars. Otherwise, they
would not let them roam. Got it?


Do you have a right to kill a wild rabbit who invades your garden?
What if it was your neighbor's prized poodle? What if it was the
neighbor's kid? Where do you draw the line? I'm curious to hear your
justification.

Rabbit: 99% of the time, no. Bugs and rabbits sometimes eat 10% of your
crops. I plant 10% extra. It works out nicely. Rabbits may eat some lettuce,
but they don't dig up a 1x1 square every time they take a crap. One
particularly bold rabbit became coniglio con aglio, rosmarino & pomodori,
served with buckwheat polenta. Delicious.

Poodle: If it fits the necessary criteria and diplomatic efforts to stop the
problem have failed, the dog is in trouble. Incidentally, you've chosen or
pretended to miss the difference between a rabbit and a dog. The rabbit's
doing what it's supposed to do. The dog belongs to a person who is
pretending not to know that you cannot destroy your neighbor's property.

Neighbor's kids: Don't be stupid. That's a human being, easily dealt with
via the standard laws of civil trespass. Call the cops. In reality, every
single kid I knew enjoyed visiting the garden. They were, without exception,
fascinated by seeing where their food came from. They were free to come get
vegetables any time they wanted, as long as they were shown how each thing
needed to be picked so the plant wouldn't be hurt. A couple of kids asked if
they could grow something they liked, so I added a few more feet to the
garden and designated it as the "kid zone", where *I* had to ask *them* if
it was OK to have some of what THEY grew. The net result of all this was
that the kids were eating vegetables that their parents had been trying to
get them to eat for years. The immediate neighbor shut off her stupid
ChemLawn service rather than contaminate the source of her daughter's
snacks.

Anything else you need to be taught today?

When would you board someone else's boat??
 

"John Smith" wrote in message
news:X38ic.10395$IW1.715397@attbi_s52...
I was wondering if Doug was as out of control as you were. I completely
agree that you should treat your neighbor as you would like to be treated.
What you fail to realize is you do not have the right to break the law, by
damaging or taking your neighbors property, in retaliation to his breaking
the law.

If, by "property", you are including a neighbor's dog, your argument holds
no water. If a neighbor lets the dog roam, he doesn't care what happens to
it. The minute it leaves HIS property, it's a wild animal. If it's garbage
day, your neighbor is throwing out some scrap lumber, and you grab a piece,
it's the same thing. He didn't want it any more.

When would you board someone else's boat??
 

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...

Not only does the machine cost money, but the dog owner has stolen 3-4
hours
of my precious time. If I apply my working rate to my weekend hours, that
time is worth between $500 and $10,000.00. The dog owner has stolen that
from me.

An extreme exaggeration meant, no doubt, to attach some sort of
inflated value to your time,

Really? In the last 45 minutes, I sold 7 trucks of cereal to a large
midwestern grocery chain. I have 3 more to go. The profit will amount to
around $9000.00. Don't question what my time is worth, boy. Matter of fact,
don't question what ANYONE'S time is worth, except your own.

When would you board someone else's boat??
 

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...

Perhaps you need to surround your garden with a fence. Killing a pet
is an excessive response, and shows a general irresponsibility and
reckless disregard for other people's rights.

Rights? Are you saying that a neighbor has the RIGHT to send his dog over to
my yard and litter it with ****? If your answer is "yes", then you must also
believe I have the right to roll my trash barrel down to HIS property and
dump it on his porch.