it is that time of year again. I have a 25' four winns that I keep in
the water for 8 months or so. When it is not in the water it is at
some marine storage area. Since I don't own a trailor, I have my local
four winns people winterize it. Since I don't have a trailer, I must
get everything that needs to be done to it when it is out of the
water, done now.
I have a Garmin GPS/Sounder and a small round in-dash depth finder.
The built in round one hardly works and the Garmen works poorly at mid
to high speeds. My mechanic says that they all do that, but he suggest
replacing the in-dash one with a new one and new transducer, perhaps a
hummingbird. "Total cost for parts and labor around $400."

What do you poeple think?

On 14 Feb 2004 08:31:00 -0800,
(Richard Malcolm) wrote:

it is that time of year again. I have a 25' four winns that I keep in
the water for 8 months or so. When it is not in the water it is at
some marine storage area. Since I don't own a trailor, I have my local
four winns people winterize it. Since I don't have a trailer, I must
get everything that needs to be done to it when it is out of the
water, done now.
I have a Garmin GPS/Sounder and a small round in-dash depth finder.
The built in round one hardly works and the Garmen works poorly at mid
to high speeds. My mechanic says that they all do that, but he suggest
replacing the in-dash one with a new one and new transducer, perhaps a
hummingbird. "Total cost for parts and labor around $400."

What do you poeple think?

Where are the transducer's located? If it's through the hull or
hanging off the sterm, you need to make sure the transducer's are
shooting through a water column and not through air. Transducer
mounting is pretty clear - you need to have the transducer in
non-aerated water all the time for it to work properly at high speed.
If the transducers are located in the hull, make sure at plane that
their position is within the area of relatively undisturbed water -
same with a sterm mount.

By the way, tell your mechanic that they all don't do that - on both
my Contender and my Ranger, the transducers are mounted in hull, work
great and never miss a beat even at 50 mph.

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
----------

"Fisherman are born honest, but they get
over it." - Ed Zern

"Richard Malcolm"

Hey Rich!

I have a 25' four winns that I keep in the water for 8 months or so.

There's your problem. You should go back to boating 12 months
per year like you used to


hummingbird. "Total cost for parts and labor around $400."

I think stand-alone depth finders (that aren't also a GPS or integrated
to any other system) seem to be in the $120 to $220 range. Some are
more expensive but are specialized in some way. So if the unit is, say,
$200 and he's charging you some profit and some labor ... I'd say $400
seems a little high. Putting in a depth finder doesn't take that long.
Especially if you are having him to other work and are paying for storage
etc.


My mechanic says that they all do that, but he suggest replacing the
in-dash one with a new one and new transducer

I think it's more like "many of them do that" because it's so easy to
not install them correctly. It would make me nervous to spend $400
on that job and then if it doesn't work he'll just say, "Well, I told
you they all do that."

Not sure what you can do about it though. We could put one in ourselves
(I'm willing to help) which might give us more thought about where it's
placed
and save on any markup he's adding to the price. It the boat in MA or
RI? Is there an opportunity for us to work on it or would the yard not
allow that?

If you have him do it - maybe try to get more information from him about
where he'd place it and try to get him to commit more to a working unit.

So - it the current one a thru-hull, in-hull, or transom mount? What
about the new one he wants to install?


Gary



THRU-HULL: A hole is made in the hull and the transeiver is mounted into
that
hole. The transeiver actually comes into contact with the water.

IN-HULL: The transeiver sets inside the hull mounted in oil or some
epoxy-like
substance. The sound pulses actually shoot "through-the-hull". This works
on
fiberglass boats so long as there are no air-pockets between the transducer
and the water.

TRANSOM: Mounted on the transom.

"Gary Warner" wrote in message
...
"Richard Malcolm"

Hey Rich!

I have a 25' four winns that I keep in the water for 8 months or so.

There's your problem. You should go back to boating 12 months
per year like you used to


hummingbird. "Total cost for parts and labor around $400."

I think stand-alone depth finders (that aren't also a GPS or integrated
to any other system) seem to be in the $120 to $220 range. Some are
more expensive but are specialized in some way. So if the unit is, say,
$200 and he's charging you some profit and some labor ... I'd say $400
seems a little high. Putting in a depth finder doesn't take that long.
Especially if you are having him to other work and are paying for storage
etc.


My mechanic says that they all do that, but he suggest replacing the
in-dash one with a new one and new transducer

I think it's more like "many of them do that" because it's so easy to
not install them correctly. It would make me nervous to spend $400
on that job and then if it doesn't work he'll just say, "Well, I told
you they all do that."

Not sure what you can do about it though. We could put one in ourselves
(I'm willing to help) which might give us more thought about where it's
placed
and save on any markup he's adding to the price. It the boat in MA or
RI? Is there an opportunity for us to work on it or would the yard not
allow that?

If you have him do it - maybe try to get more information from him about
where he'd place it and try to get him to commit more to a working unit.

So - it the current one a thru-hull, in-hull, or transom mount? What
about the new one he wants to install?


Gary



THRU-HULL: A hole is made in the hull and the transeiver is mounted into
that
hole. The transeiver actually comes into contact with the water.

IN-HULL: The transeiver sets inside the hull mounted in oil or some
epoxy-like
substance. The sound pulses actually shoot "through-the-hull". This
works
on
fiberglass boats so long as there are no air-pockets between the
transducer
and the water.

TRANSOM: Mounted on the transom.





A 25' 4 winns is not the boat for a Humminbird! Decent, not great, inland
water depthfinder. If you have a through hull now, check that it is not
behind a thru-hull for something else. It may need a highspeed fairing
block, Talk to your local good marine electronics supplier. Since you
happen to be in Boston from your email, us Westerner's can not recommend
someone.
Bill

My first reaction is the wiring or the mounting; they don't all do that.
A poor electrical ground connection can cause anything to not work or be
erratic.
Transducers must be correctly mounted so that they are in clear, non
turbulent water.
$400 for parts and labor is not unreasonable, but I wouldn't pay your
mechanic to do a job that he doesn't think you should expect to work
reliably.

"Richard Malcolm" wrote in message
om...
it is that time of year again. I have a 25' four winns that I keep in
the water for 8 months or so. When it is not in the water it is at
some marine storage area. Since I don't own a trailor, I have my local
four winns people winterize it. Since I don't have a trailer, I must
get everything that needs to be done to it when it is out of the
water, done now.
I have a Garmin GPS/Sounder and a small round in-dash depth finder.
The built in round one hardly works and the Garmen works poorly at mid
to high speeds. My mechanic says that they all do that, but he suggest
replacing the in-dash one with a new one and new transducer, perhaps a
hummingbird. "Total cost for parts and labor around $400."

What do you poeple think?

IMOHO - Based on my experience with both, I would find out why the Garmin
isn't working properly. I would rather have a cheap Garmin than an expensive
Huminbird. Check your cable for frays/breaks but most importantly, check
your transducer installation. If you don't have a manual , you can probably
get it at http://www.garmin.com

--
Bill
Chesapeake, Va


"Richard Malcolm" wrote in message
om...
it is that time of year again. I have a 25' four winns that I keep in
the water for 8 months or so. When it is not in the water it is at
some marine storage area. Since I don't own a trailor, I have my local
four winns people winterize it. Since I don't have a trailer, I must
get everything that needs to be done to it when it is out of the
water, done now.
I have a Garmin GPS/Sounder and a small round in-dash depth finder.
The built in round one hardly works and the Garmen works poorly at mid
to high speeds. My mechanic says that they all do that, but he suggest
replacing the in-dash one with a new one and new transducer, perhaps a
hummingbird. "Total cost for parts and labor around $400."

What do you poeple think?

(Richard Malcolm) wrote in message . com...
it is that time of year again. I have a 25' four winns that I keep in
the water for 8 months or so. When it is not in the water it is at
some marine storage area. Since I don't own a trailor, I have my local
four winns people winterize it. Since I don't have a trailer, I must
get everything that needs to be done to it when it is out of the
water, done now.
I have a Garmin GPS/Sounder and a small round in-dash depth finder.
The built in round one hardly works and the Garmen works poorly at mid
to high speeds. My mechanic says that they all do that

Not true! Usually that poorer performance at mid to high speeds is an
indication of improper transducer placement. I have a hummingbird
fishfinder/depth finder, and it works fine at any speed.

Check your transducer placement. I have a similar setup and mine work
almost all the time. The small dash meters transducer is mounted on the
transom, and I mounted the garmin transducer in the bilge by making an
angled collar out of the top of a spray-paint can and putting the 'ducer
into it with some silicone glue. I guess your hull construction materials
will determine if a shoot-thru-the-hull method will work to your
satisfaction. Also, if your hull has chines that will funnel air bubbles
then you should avoid placing the transducer over those channels. The high
frequency sound has to pass through the plastic transducer, the mount
adhesive, the hull layers, and the water column......then back through them
all again to be received. Air is not a good conductor of this signal.
I have read about placing the transducer in an oil bath container, but don't
know if it works better. Most of the reccomendations I've read say to use
a harder epoxy-type mount, but I wanted to use silicone in case the bilge
location proved to be troublesome.
You would think that the manufacturers would have some side-by-side
comparison information on the efficacy of the various mounting methods and
transducer options.

(Richard Malcolm) wrote in message . com...
it is that time of year again. I have a 25' four winns that I keep in
the water for 8 months or so. When it is not in the water it is at
some marine storage area. Since I don't own a trailor, I have my local
four winns people winterize it. Since I don't have a trailer, I must
get everything that needs to be done to it when it is out of the
water, done now.
I have a Garmin GPS/Sounder and a small round in-dash depth finder.
The built in round one hardly works and the Garmen works poorly at mid
to high speeds. My mechanic says that they all do that, but he suggest
replacing the in-dash one with a new one and new transducer, perhaps a
hummingbird. "Total cost for parts and labor around $400."

What do you poeple think?

No, they don't all do that that, and yours shouldn't either. First,if
its a transom mount make sure the entire transducer ia at least 1/4"
below the bottom of the boat. On a V-hull this means the inner edge.
This is per the manual, which you can buy in original form or download
for free in pdf format from the Garmin site.

I have a Garmin that worked fine at speed for awhile but then began
cutting out at planing speed. Turns out the cheap plastic release
mechanism (and that's making it sound more complex then it is)that
allows the transducer to swing up if you hit something was relasing
with very little load - like the load applied at planing speeds.
Sometimes it would flop down when I slowed down, sometimes it
wouldn't. If it didn't I took the boat pole and pushed it back into
place. This year I'm going to add a little RTV on the flats between
the bracket and the transducer that should hold it in place unless
there's a big load, like a log.

FishFan

Hi Gary, perhaps you should have a look at JRC's offerings. Their
integrated system is the cat's meow, I am not sure how a Radome would look
on the Deliala though.

I am using a Paramount 3d, black and white display, with paddle wheel
speed and temp sensor, with a through the hull transducer. Note that I had
to level the area of hull it was being mounted in. I used marine-tex for
this and to "glue" the xducer down. (MAKE SURE to get the transducer level,
side to side, and fore to aft, before the marine-tex begins to set up.) This
allows the readings to be taken from near the centerline where the hull is
always in the water, and at its deepest point.(Just in front of the engine,
but behind the fuel.) It also avoids prop turbulance, and bubbles are at a
minimum in that area.
--
Capt. Frank

__c
\ _ | \_
__\_| oooo \_____
~~~~|______________/ ~~~~~
www.home.earthlink.net/~aartworks
"Gary Warner" wrote in message
...
"Richard Malcolm"

Hey Rich!

I have a 25' four winns that I keep in the water for 8 months or so.

There's your problem. You should go back to boating 12 months
per year like you used to


hummingbird. "Total cost for parts and labor around $400."

I think stand-alone depth finders (that aren't also a GPS or integrated
to any other system) seem to be in the $120 to $220 range. Some are
more expensive but are specialized in some way. So if the unit is, say,
$200 and he's charging you some profit and some labor ... I'd say $400
seems a little high. Putting in a depth finder doesn't take that long.
Especially if you are having him to other work and are paying for
storage
etc.


My mechanic says that they all do that, but he suggest replacing the
in-dash one with a new one and new transducer

I think it's more like "many of them do that" because it's so easy to
not install them correctly. It would make me nervous to spend $400
on that job and then if it doesn't work he'll just say, "Well, I told
you they all do that."

Not sure what you can do about it though. We could put one in ourselves
(I'm willing to help) which might give us more thought about where it's
placed
and save on any markup he's adding to the price. It the boat in MA or
RI? Is there an opportunity for us to work on it or would the yard not
allow that?

If you have him do it - maybe try to get more information from him about
where he'd place it and try to get him to commit more to a working unit.

So - it the current one a thru-hull, in-hull, or transom mount? What
about the new one he wants to install?


Gary



THRU-HULL: A hole is made in the hull and the transeiver is mounted
into
that
hole. The transeiver actually comes into contact with the water.

IN-HULL: The transeiver sets inside the hull mounted in oil or some
epoxy-like
substance. The sound pulses actually shoot "through-the-hull". This
works
on
fiberglass boats so long as there are no air-pockets between the
transducer
and the water.

TRANSOM: Mounted on the transom.