it is that time of year again. I have a 25' four winns that I keep in
the water for 8 months or so. When it is not in the water it is at
some marine storage area. Since I don't own a trailor, I have my local
four winns people winterize it. Since I don't have a trailer, I must
get everything that needs to be done to it when it is out of the
water, done now.
I have a Garmin GPS/Sounder and a small round in-dash depth finder.
The built in round one hardly works and the Garmen works poorly at mid
to high speeds. My mechanic says that they all do that, but he suggest
replacing the in-dash one with a new one and new transducer, perhaps a
hummingbird. "Total cost for parts and labor around $400."

What do you poeple think?

On 14 Feb 2004 08:31:00 -0800,
(Richard Malcolm) wrote:

it is that time of year again. I have a 25' four winns that I keep in
the water for 8 months or so. When it is not in the water it is at
some marine storage area. Since I don't own a trailor, I have my local
four winns people winterize it. Since I don't have a trailer, I must
get everything that needs to be done to it when it is out of the
water, done now.
I have a Garmin GPS/Sounder and a small round in-dash depth finder.
The built in round one hardly works and the Garmen works poorly at mid
to high speeds. My mechanic says that they all do that, but he suggest
replacing the in-dash one with a new one and new transducer, perhaps a
hummingbird. "Total cost for parts and labor around $400."

What do you poeple think?

Where are the transducer's located? If it's through the hull or
hanging off the sterm, you need to make sure the transducer's are
shooting through a water column and not through air. Transducer
mounting is pretty clear - you need to have the transducer in
non-aerated water all the time for it to work properly at high speed.
If the transducers are located in the hull, make sure at plane that
their position is within the area of relatively undisturbed water -
same with a sterm mount.

By the way, tell your mechanic that they all don't do that - on both
my Contender and my Ranger, the transducers are mounted in hull, work
great and never miss a beat even at 50 mph.

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
----------

"Fisherman are born honest, but they get
over it." - Ed Zern

"Richard Malcolm"

Hey Rich!

I have a 25' four winns that I keep in the water for 8 months or so.

There's your problem. You should go back to boating 12 months
per year like you used to


hummingbird. "Total cost for parts and labor around $400."

I think stand-alone depth finders (that aren't also a GPS or integrated
to any other system) seem to be in the $120 to $220 range. Some are
more expensive but are specialized in some way. So if the unit is, say,
$200 and he's charging you some profit and some labor ... I'd say $400
seems a little high. Putting in a depth finder doesn't take that long.
Especially if you are having him to other work and are paying for storage
etc.


My mechanic says that they all do that, but he suggest replacing the
in-dash one with a new one and new transducer

I think it's more like "many of them do that" because it's so easy to
not install them correctly. It would make me nervous to spend $400
on that job and then if it doesn't work he'll just say, "Well, I told
you they all do that."

Not sure what you can do about it though. We could put one in ourselves
(I'm willing to help) which might give us more thought about where it's
placed
and save on any markup he's adding to the price. It the boat in MA or
RI? Is there an opportunity for us to work on it or would the yard not
allow that?

If you have him do it - maybe try to get more information from him about
where he'd place it and try to get him to commit more to a working unit.

So - it the current one a thru-hull, in-hull, or transom mount? What
about the new one he wants to install?


Gary



THRU-HULL: A hole is made in the hull and the transeiver is mounted into
that
hole. The transeiver actually comes into contact with the water.

IN-HULL: The transeiver sets inside the hull mounted in oil or some
epoxy-like
substance. The sound pulses actually shoot "through-the-hull". This works
on
fiberglass boats so long as there are no air-pockets between the transducer
and the water.

TRANSOM: Mounted on the transom.

"Gary Warner" wrote in message
...
"Richard Malcolm"

Hey Rich!

I have a 25' four winns that I keep in the water for 8 months or so.

There's your problem. You should go back to boating 12 months
per year like you used to


hummingbird. "Total cost for parts and labor around $400."

I think stand-alone depth finders (that aren't also a GPS or integrated
to any other system) seem to be in the $120 to $220 range. Some are
more expensive but are specialized in some way. So if the unit is, say,
$200 and he's charging you some profit and some labor ... I'd say $400
seems a little high. Putting in a depth finder doesn't take that long.
Especially if you are having him to other work and are paying for storage
etc.


My mechanic says that they all do that, but he suggest replacing the
in-dash one with a new one and new transducer

I think it's more like "many of them do that" because it's so easy to
not install them correctly. It would make me nervous to spend $400
on that job and then if it doesn't work he'll just say, "Well, I told
you they all do that."

Not sure what you can do about it though. We could put one in ourselves
(I'm willing to help) which might give us more thought about where it's
placed
and save on any markup he's adding to the price. It the boat in MA or
RI? Is there an opportunity for us to work on it or would the yard not
allow that?

If you have him do it - maybe try to get more information from him about
where he'd place it and try to get him to commit more to a working unit.

So - it the current one a thru-hull, in-hull, or transom mount? What
about the new one he wants to install?


Gary



THRU-HULL: A hole is made in the hull and the transeiver is mounted into
that
hole. The transeiver actually comes into contact with the water.

IN-HULL: The transeiver sets inside the hull mounted in oil or some
epoxy-like
substance. The sound pulses actually shoot "through-the-hull". This
works
on
fiberglass boats so long as there are no air-pockets between the
transducer
and the water.

TRANSOM: Mounted on the transom.





A 25' 4 winns is not the boat for a Humminbird! Decent, not great, inland
water depthfinder. If you have a through hull now, check that it is not
behind a thru-hull for something else. It may need a highspeed fairing
block, Talk to your local good marine electronics supplier. Since you
happen to be in Boston from your email, us Westerner's can not recommend
someone.
Bill

Hi Gary, perhaps you should have a look at JRC's offerings. Their
integrated system is the cat's meow, I am not sure how a Radome would look
on the Deliala though.

I am using a Paramount 3d, black and white display, with paddle wheel
speed and temp sensor, with a through the hull transducer. Note that I had
to level the area of hull it was being mounted in. I used marine-tex for
this and to "glue" the xducer down. (MAKE SURE to get the transducer level,
side to side, and fore to aft, before the marine-tex begins to set up.) This
allows the readings to be taken from near the centerline where the hull is
always in the water, and at its deepest point.(Just in front of the engine,
but behind the fuel.) It also avoids prop turbulance, and bubbles are at a
minimum in that area.
--
Capt. Frank

__c
\ _ | \_
__\_| oooo \_____
~~~~|______________/ ~~~~~
www.home.earthlink.net/~aartworks
"Gary Warner" wrote in message
...
"Richard Malcolm"

Hey Rich!

I have a 25' four winns that I keep in the water for 8 months or so.

There's your problem. You should go back to boating 12 months
per year like you used to


hummingbird. "Total cost for parts and labor around $400."

I think stand-alone depth finders (that aren't also a GPS or integrated
to any other system) seem to be in the $120 to $220 range. Some are
more expensive but are specialized in some way. So if the unit is, say,
$200 and he's charging you some profit and some labor ... I'd say $400
seems a little high. Putting in a depth finder doesn't take that long.
Especially if you are having him to other work and are paying for
storage
etc.


My mechanic says that they all do that, but he suggest replacing the
in-dash one with a new one and new transducer

I think it's more like "many of them do that" because it's so easy to
not install them correctly. It would make me nervous to spend $400
on that job and then if it doesn't work he'll just say, "Well, I told
you they all do that."

Not sure what you can do about it though. We could put one in ourselves
(I'm willing to help) which might give us more thought about where it's
placed
and save on any markup he's adding to the price. It the boat in MA or
RI? Is there an opportunity for us to work on it or would the yard not
allow that?

If you have him do it - maybe try to get more information from him about
where he'd place it and try to get him to commit more to a working unit.

So - it the current one a thru-hull, in-hull, or transom mount? What
about the new one he wants to install?


Gary



THRU-HULL: A hole is made in the hull and the transeiver is mounted
into
that
hole. The transeiver actually comes into contact with the water.

IN-HULL: The transeiver sets inside the hull mounted in oil or some
epoxy-like
substance. The sound pulses actually shoot "through-the-hull". This
works
on
fiberglass boats so long as there are no air-pockets between the
transducer
and the water.

TRANSOM: Mounted on the transom.

thanks gary
I just got back from looking under and around the boat. It is in
quincy. it has 2 depth finders and one has a transom mount and I am
not sure but think that the other is thru hull. there is two things
off of the transom, one black box thing (garmin transducer)and another
clear or white plastic finger (maybe that is for the built in
speedometer) hee hee- the days before GPS. how funny
I think that we would have no problem working on the boat but I can
ask just to be sure. no one is around this week as they are moving
boats for the boats show

talk to you soon

My first reaction is the wiring or the mounting; they don't all do that.
A poor electrical ground connection can cause anything to not work or be
erratic.
Transducers must be correctly mounted so that they are in clear, non
turbulent water.
$400 for parts and labor is not unreasonable, but I wouldn't pay your
mechanic to do a job that he doesn't think you should expect to work
reliably.

"Richard Malcolm" wrote in message
om...
it is that time of year again. I have a 25' four winns that I keep in
the water for 8 months or so. When it is not in the water it is at
some marine storage area. Since I don't own a trailor, I have my local
four winns people winterize it. Since I don't have a trailer, I must
get everything that needs to be done to it when it is out of the
water, done now.
I have a Garmin GPS/Sounder and a small round in-dash depth finder.
The built in round one hardly works and the Garmen works poorly at mid
to high speeds. My mechanic says that they all do that, but he suggest
replacing the in-dash one with a new one and new transducer, perhaps a
hummingbird. "Total cost for parts and labor around $400."

What do you poeple think?

IMOHO - Based on my experience with both, I would find out why the Garmin
isn't working properly. I would rather have a cheap Garmin than an expensive
Huminbird. Check your cable for frays/breaks but most importantly, check
your transducer installation. If you don't have a manual , you can probably
get it at http://www.garmin.com

--
Bill
Chesapeake, Va


"Richard Malcolm" wrote in message
om...
it is that time of year again. I have a 25' four winns that I keep in
the water for 8 months or so. When it is not in the water it is at
some marine storage area. Since I don't own a trailor, I have my local
four winns people winterize it. Since I don't have a trailer, I must
get everything that needs to be done to it when it is out of the
water, done now.
I have a Garmin GPS/Sounder and a small round in-dash depth finder.
The built in round one hardly works and the Garmen works poorly at mid
to high speeds. My mechanic says that they all do that, but he suggest
replacing the in-dash one with a new one and new transducer, perhaps a
hummingbird. "Total cost for parts and labor around $400."

What do you poeple think?

On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:02:21 +0000, WRH wrote:

IMOHO - Based on my experience with both, I would find out why the Garmin
isn't working properly. I would rather have a cheap Garmin than an expensive
Huminbird. Check your cable for frays/breaks but most importantly, check
your transducer installation. If you don't have a manual , you can probably
get it at http://www.garmin.com

While I don't agree about the brand issue (I have two Humminbirds and they
both work great), I WOULD agree that you should find out why your existing
setup isn't working. Most "mid to high speed" problems are associated with
the transducer, and all the sounders have basically the same ones. I'd
hate to put out $400 and end up with the same problem...

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36

(Richard Malcolm) wrote in message . com...
it is that time of year again. I have a 25' four winns that I keep in
the water for 8 months or so. When it is not in the water it is at
some marine storage area. Since I don't own a trailor, I have my local
four winns people winterize it. Since I don't have a trailer, I must
get everything that needs to be done to it when it is out of the
water, done now.
I have a Garmin GPS/Sounder and a small round in-dash depth finder.
The built in round one hardly works and the Garmen works poorly at mid
to high speeds. My mechanic says that they all do that

Not true! Usually that poorer performance at mid to high speeds is an
indication of improper transducer placement. I have a hummingbird
fishfinder/depth finder, and it works fine at any speed.