Scott informs:
============
Most high schools are little more than a 4 year holding pattern wherein
children go through puberty and learn social skills.
============

That perhaps explains why the USA lags behind most industrialized
nations in school performance. Too much socializing (and football and
cheerleading,) and not enough math.

frtzw906

Scott compassionately asserts:
====================
No, it's a game of compassion and diversity that every child needs to
learn,
if for no other reason than the "there but by the grace of God go I"
lesson.
==============

Except, as Scott has said in response to what started this sub-thread,
if you are wealthy enough to send your kid to private school where
there are no children with intellectual disabilities.

frtzw906

Scott:
===============
Well, thanks for at least clearing up the acronym issue.

Can you point me to any such published or verifiable remarks?
==============

Yes, we were having a beer while watching fireworks. When I enquired
about the brighter girl being at private school, that's the reason
given. Good enough for you?

frtzw906

Scott:
============
That falsely presumes that merely because a particular person is
intellectually limited, that this constitutes an actionable "hindrance"
of
the advancement of other students.
============

I made no such presumption. The context was a student (and many more
like her), who repeatedly interrupted classroom activities with violent
vocal and physical outbursts.

That's a hindrance!

frtzw906

Scott says:
=============
I say it's an opportunity. Besides, you're stereotyping all "disabled
children" with the broad brush.
===============

First, I established the nature of the disability and the nature of the
interruptions, so there was no broad brush -- I was specific.

As an opportunity it wears thin real fast.... oh.... after about 2
days.

frtzw906

Scott scoffs:
==============
who, I might add, also have a
right to an education individualized so as to maximize THEIR
learning.

In a PUBLIC school? BWAHAHAHAHAHAH!
===============

Likely a reflection of the poor job being done in the USA.

Notwithstanding some difficulties, Canada, as you've been informed,
does quite well in international comparisons. So scoff if you will, but
keep your scoffing to references to the USA, OK?

frtzw906

Scott asserts (incorrectly):
=============
I'm sympathetic to the socialization argument. To a point. Once the
socialzation becomes an undue burden to the teachers and other pupils
(when their freedoms are being violated), then, I think, we've had
enough.

Well, there may be a limit, but you generalize far too much and try to
use
it as an argument not to mainstream disabled students. As I said
before,
each student is different, and will need different assistance.
=============

I've made NO argument not to mainstream. I've made arguments that there
are times when it is *not* appropriate.

frtzw906

Scott recommends:
============
Hire another teacher or put the disabled students in a Grade 1 math
class.
============

Oh yeah, I totally forgot about the budget surplus.

frtzw906

Scott:
===========
I said they were, in some instances, a burden on the learning
environment in classrooms.

Well, now that you're finally *qualifying* your statement by admitting
that
you're positing worst-case scenearios.
==============

Not "worst-case" at all insofar as they are "worst" but they are also
quite common -- to be encountered in almost *every* school.

frtzw906

The warm and fuzzy Scott opines:
===============
I will agree with the statement "in rare instances." For the most part,
most
"disabled" children can be successfully mainstreamed, in combination
with
additional special education. This is true because the profoundly
disabled,
who are the likely "pecker pullers" comprise only a small component of
the
disabled student population. The vast majority of students with
disabilities
both need and can benefit from mainstreaming. In those rare instances
where
it simply doesn't work out, some other plan is needed.
============

We agree.

This sub-thread started however, with the tale of two sisters, one of
whom was what you characterized as a "worst-case" scenario. The
subsequent discussion revolved around the hypocrisy of the parents,
leaving the "worst-case" scenario in the public school, for
less-wealthy pupils do deal with, while they took their brighter
daughter out of that environment and into a private school.

frtzw906