A Usenet persona calling itself BCITORGB wrote:

Scott demonstrates that he's never spent any time in a school classroom
as an adult:
====================
And mainstreaming also places an undue and, at times, unfair burden
on
teachers and classmates.

Only if you believe that providing a proper educational and social
environment for someone who is already facing an enormous uphill battle
just
to survive is an "undue burden." Most people, and certainly most
socialist
egalitarianists, believe that helping the disabled is not an "undue
burden"
but is rather a mitzvah and a gift, and an opportunity to show charity
and
love and empathy and concern for those less fortunate, and a teachable
moment particularly for children (as well as ignorant, bigoted adults)
wherein the intrinsic value of every human being can be demonstrated
and the
rewards of altruistic service to others taught to impressionable youth.

====================

Scott, if you're trying to teach a lesson in arithmetic to a class of
Grade 3 pupils and are repeatedly disrupted by random vocal and
physical outbursts the, yes, that's an undue burden.

I say it's an opportunity. Besides, you're stereotyping all "disabled
children" with the broad brush.

A burden on the
teachers

That's what they get paid the big bucks for.

and the majority of the pupils,

They'll just have to learn to deal with it. That's what they're there to do,
isn't it?

who, I might add, also have a
right to an education individualized so as to maximize THEIR learning.

In a PUBLIC school? BWAHAHAHAHAHAH!


You pose an interesting dilemma. You veer away from the line taken by
most right-wing critics of the educational system. Most such critics
make the case that far too much time is taken up with mamby-pamby, soft
stuff like socialization, and that not enough hard-core maths, science,
reading et al are taught. So, we need to decide, during math class,
should the primary focus be on the teaching of maths or should we
repeatedly take time out for "socializing" whenever we get a random,
irrelevant outburst?

No reason it can't be both. I simply don't agree with your implied thesis
that "normal" students are incapable of working through distractions.


I'm sympathetic to the socialization argument. To a point. Once the
socialzation becomes an undue burden to the teachers and other pupils
(when their freedoms are being violated), then, I think, we've had
enough.

Well, there may be a limit, but you generalize far too much and try to use
it as an argument not to mainstream disabled students. As I said before,
each student is different, and will need different assistance.


--
Regards,
Scott Weiser

"I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend on
friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" TM

© 2005 Scott Weiser

Scott says:
=============
I say it's an opportunity. Besides, you're stereotyping all "disabled
children" with the broad brush.
===============

First, I established the nature of the disability and the nature of the
interruptions, so there was no broad brush -- I was specific.

As an opportunity it wears thin real fast.... oh.... after about 2
days.

frtzw906

A Usenet persona calling itself BCITORGB wrote:

Scott says:
=============
I say it's an opportunity. Besides, you're stereotyping all "disabled
children" with the broad brush.
===============

First, I established the nature of the disability and the nature of the
interruptions, so there was no broad brush -- I was specific.

No, you weren't. You have been extremely vague about the *specific* student,
but you have been attempting to tar *all* disabled students with that
particular brush during a discussion of general policy.


As an opportunity it wears thin real fast.... oh.... after about 2
days.

Only for the intellectually and compassion challenged.

--
Regards,
Scott Weiser

"I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend on
friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" TM

© 2005 Scott Weiser

Scott scoffs:
==============
who, I might add, also have a
right to an education individualized so as to maximize THEIR
learning.

In a PUBLIC school? BWAHAHAHAHAHAH!
===============

Likely a reflection of the poor job being done in the USA.

Notwithstanding some difficulties, Canada, as you've been informed,
does quite well in international comparisons. So scoff if you will, but
keep your scoffing to references to the USA, OK?

frtzw906

Scott asserts (incorrectly):
=============
I'm sympathetic to the socialization argument. To a point. Once the
socialzation becomes an undue burden to the teachers and other pupils
(when their freedoms are being violated), then, I think, we've had
enough.

Well, there may be a limit, but you generalize far too much and try to
use
it as an argument not to mainstream disabled students. As I said
before,
each student is different, and will need different assistance.
=============

I've made NO argument not to mainstream. I've made arguments that there
are times when it is *not* appropriate.

frtzw906

A Usenet persona calling itself BCITORGB wrote:

Scott asserts (incorrectly):
=============
I'm sympathetic to the socialization argument. To a point. Once the
socialzation becomes an undue burden to the teachers and other pupils
(when their freedoms are being violated), then, I think, we've had
enough.

Well, there may be a limit, but you generalize far too much and try to
use
it as an argument not to mainstream disabled students. As I said
before,
each student is different, and will need different assistance.
=============

I've made NO argument not to mainstream. I've made arguments that there
are times when it is *not* appropriate.

And yet you apply your arguments to the broader issues by omission and
implication. I don't deny that in extraordinary cases, a particular child
may not be able to successfully integrate into school society, but every
child deserves the *chance* to try.

I'm not going to argue a specific case with you because it's pointless to do
so. This is a discussion of general policies and ideas.

--
Regards,
Scott Weiser

"I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend on
friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" TM

© 2005 Scott Weiser