A Usenet persona calling itself BCITORGB wrote:

Scott correctly observes:
===============
Children must be treated as INDIVIDUALS, and their INDIVIDUAL best
interests should be served by their parents, to the best of their
ability,
without regard for other students, whose educations are the
responsibility
of their parents.
==============

You are correct -- partially. Whereas the school system is mandated to
serve the individualized needs of pupils, it is also required to
protect the entire student body (the system) from the negative actions
of students who hinder the advancement of others. Just as in any
society, the INDIVIDUAL'S freedoms and rights stop where those rights
and freedoms interfere with the rights and freedoms of others. So it is
in schools as well.

That falsely presumes that merely because a particular person is
intellectually limited, that this constitutes an actionable "hindrance" of
the advancement of other students.

That's one of the conundrums of public schools: They have to serve everyone,
and cannot, by their nature, serve each one as they may need or deserve.
Sounds like what's needed is private schools...

--
Regards,
Scott Weiser

"I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend on
friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" TM

© 2005 Scott Weiser

Scott:
============
That falsely presumes that merely because a particular person is
intellectually limited, that this constitutes an actionable "hindrance"
of
the advancement of other students.
============

I made no such presumption. The context was a student (and many more
like her), who repeatedly interrupted classroom activities with violent
vocal and physical outbursts.

That's a hindrance!

frtzw906

A Usenet persona calling itself BCITORGB wrote:

Scott:
============
That falsely presumes that merely because a particular person is
intellectually limited, that this constitutes an actionable "hindrance"
of
the advancement of other students.
============

I made no such presumption. The context was a student (and many more
like her), who repeatedly interrupted classroom activities with violent
vocal and physical outbursts.

That's a hindrance!

Nope. It's an opportunity likely combined with a cry for help.
--
Regards,
Scott Weiser

"I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend on
friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" TM

© 2005 Scott Weiser

Scott:
==============
I made no such presumption. The context was a student (and many more
like her), who repeatedly interrupted classroom activities with
violent
vocal and physical outbursts.

That's a hindrance!

Nope. It's an opportunity likely combined with a cry for help
================

The other students got the point by day 2. Next opportunity please.

frtzw906

in article , Scott Weiser at
wrote on 4/5/05 5:28 PM:

A Usenet persona calling itself BCITORGB wrote:

Scott:
============
That falsely presumes that merely because a particular person is
intellectually limited, that this constitutes an actionable "hindrance"
of
the advancement of other students.
============

I made no such presumption. The context was a student (and many more
like her), who repeatedly interrupted classroom activities with violent
vocal and physical outbursts.

That's a hindrance!

Nope. It's an opportunity likely combined with a cry for help.

I agree with Scott.

The person is screaming "Why am I in this classroom with a curriculum that
has no relevance or consideration for my needs, where I am being humiliated
on a daily basis in front of the other kids who see that I am lost and full
of anxiety and I don't have one friend and only thing worse than this is
going to be when school is over for me and I haven't learned what I need to
learn to participate in the community and I will be alone in the basement of
my parent's house waiting to die for 50 years which is even worse than
sitting here and being humiliated."

KMAN:
===============
I made no such presumption. The context was a student (and many more
like her), who repeatedly interrupted classroom activities with
violent
vocal and physical outbursts.

That's a hindrance!

Nope. It's an opportunity likely combined with a cry for help.

I agree with Scott.

The person is screaming "Why am I in this classroom with a curriculum
that
has no relevance or consideration for my needs, where I am being
humiliated
on a daily basis in front of the other kids who see that I am lost and
full
of anxiety and I don't have one friend and only thing worse than this
is
going to be when school is over for me and I haven't learned what I
need to
learn to participate in the community and I will be alone in the
basement of
my parent's house waiting to die for 50 years which is even worse than
sitting here and being humiliated."
===============

Of course. It depends on perspective. And in these cases, there are
several, and each is valid. To the average kid in the classroom,
seemingly irrelevant oubursts are a hindrance.

I'm sympathetic to the fact that it may represent something quite
different to the person with disabilities.

frtzw906

in article , BCITORGB
at wrote on 4/6/05 12:03 AM:

KMAN:
===============
I made no such presumption. The context was a student (and many more
like her), who repeatedly interrupted classroom activities with
violent
vocal and physical outbursts.

That's a hindrance!

Nope. It's an opportunity likely combined with a cry for help.

I agree with Scott.

The person is screaming "Why am I in this classroom with a curriculum
that
has no relevance or consideration for my needs, where I am being
humiliated
on a daily basis in front of the other kids who see that I am lost and
full
of anxiety and I don't have one friend and only thing worse than this
is
going to be when school is over for me and I haven't learned what I
need to
learn to participate in the community and I will be alone in the
basement of
my parent's house waiting to die for 50 years which is even worse than
sitting here and being humiliated."
===============

Of course. It depends on perspective. And in these cases, there are
several, and each is valid. To the average kid in the classroom,
seemingly irrelevant oubursts are a hindrance.

I'm sympathetic to the fact that it may represent something quite
different to the person with disabilities.

frtzw906

That's really the only reasonable way to look at it.

If the non-disbabled kid was put in a class where the curriculum was
designed for kids with intellectual disabilities, it wouldn't take long for
that kid to share his displeasure. I doubt his complaints would be
considered in terms of how the kids with disabilities were being
inconvenienced by his behaviour.