A Usenet persona calling itself BCITORGB wrote:

Scott cites:
=============
The average Canadian family pays about 48 percent of its income in
taxes
each year,
=============

And, Scott, exactly how much tax does the average American pay?

The author didn't say. However, the point is that *I* don't have to pay a
major portion of my income for *your* bad health habits. Nor do you have to
pay for mine. That incentivizes me to stay healthy, since I know if I get
sick, I have to pay for it or die. In Canada, there's no impetus to care for
onesself because if you get sick, the government pays for everything...by
taking from everyone else to cover your bad health.

That's wrong. Personal responsibility is the best way, always.


But more to the point, it would be useful if you just put out the
comparative data, without an editorial, so that people could reac
decisions based on data alone.

Doing so might violate copyrights. It's the commentary that makes the
excerpts fall under the Fair Use exception. Besides, I like to comment, and
nothing prevents you from reaching a decision independent of my commentary
based on the data provided.


Here's my source: Social and Cultural Planning Office, The Hague,
September 2004

NOTE: The SCP used primarily OECD and World Bank data.

Let's check out the data, and then reach a conclusion based on data,
shall we? In each category, Canada is mentioned first, then the USA (as
in, Canada vs USA).

Total current expenditure on health ca percentage of GDP, 2000: 8.5%
vs 13%

Americans spend more on better, more available health care, and they do it
voluntarily.

Total current health expenditure per capita, 2000: 2400€ vs 4100€

Cheapskate Canadian health care system.

Out-patient expenditure as percentage of gdp: 2.7% vs 5.9%

Americans get better care on demand.

In-patient expenditure as percentage of GDP: 2.8% vs 3.9%

Canadians get shorted when they go into the hospital because funds are
short.

Inpatient ca beds per 1000 inhabitants, 2000: 3.9 vs 9.8

Three times as many beds available in the US.

Total health employment per 1000 inhabitants, 2001 (FTE): 37 vs 38

U.S. Healthcare is much more efficient, as it provides much better, more
available service with virtually the same percentage of health care workers.
Canadian health care is stuffed with straphangers and sinecured government
employees.

Physicians: number per 1000 inhabitants, 2001: 2.1 vs 2.8

More, and more efficient physicians available in the US to anyone who cares
to seek them out. Canadians get stuck in the waiting line for years.

Nurses: number per 1000 inhabitants, 2001: 9.8 vs 8.1

More nurses required in Canada because there are fewer doctors and more
inefficient health care.

Inpatient ca admissions per 1000 inhabitants, 2000: 100 vs 125

Fewer Canadians are able to get inpatient care, and often have to wait years
to get it at all.

Acute ca number of patient days per capita, 2000: 0.85 vs 0.68

U.S. Hospitals treat acute illnesses aggressively and cure their patients
more quickly. Canadians don't get acute care as easily, thus they get sicker
and take longer to treat.

Non-acute inpatient ca number of patient days per capita, 2000: 0.15
vs 2.25

Canada kicks out anybody who isn't deathly ill to make room for other,
sicker people.

Outpatient consultations of physicians: number per capita, 2001: 6.1 vs
6.0

If Canadians live long enough...no data on the delays is provided.

General practitioners per 1000 inhabitants: 1.0 vs 0.8

We have lots of specialists down here, which results in better, more focused
care.

Acute ca occupancy rate: 87% vs 68%

You have to get really damned sick in Canada before they'll admit you, and
by then, you end up staying a lot longer.

Number of consultations per practising physician, 2000: 3050 vs 2020

Doctors in Canada are overworked and underpaid.

Life expectancy at birth, 2001: 80 vs 78
Healthy life expectancy: 70 vs 67.5
Infant mortality in deaths per 1000 live births, 2001: 5 vs 6.5

Sometimes you die. Sometimes Canadians die waiting for treatment.

Health status index, 2001: 5.6 vs 4.7 (higher is better)
Cost-effectiveness of health care, 2001: Compare health status index
with expenditure per person (Canada wins)
Rankings of countries by type of health index -
*Health status index 2001: 8th vs 19th
*SCP composite index 2001: 13th vs 18th
*WHO composite - index 1997: 4th vs 12th


On some fairly critical factors such as life expectancy, healthy life
expectancy, infant mortality, and a variety of health indices, Canada
out-performs the USA. At substatially less expenditure.

Until you get sick. In Canada, you're stuck waiting for treatment and the
government won't even allow you to find and pay for your own treatment.
Canadians who are really sick and need care come to the US where they can be
treated immediately.


So, Scott, instead of dealing in editorials from newpapers, why not
deal in real data. What do you make of this data?

None of it matters a whit in a country that forbids a private individual
from obtaining private medical insurance and forces them into the public
system. That's the essence of uncaring socialism.

I'll stick with the US system, thanks. At least here, I can get whatever
health care I need when I need it, without asking the permission of the
government.

--
Regards,
Scott Weiser

"I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend on
friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" TM

© 2005 Scott Weiser

"Scott Weiser" wrote in message
...
A Usenet persona calling itself BCITORGB wrote:

Scott cites:
=============
The average Canadian family pays about 48 percent of its income in
taxes
each year,
=============

And, Scott, exactly how much tax does the average American pay?

The author didn't say. However, the point is that *I* don't have to pay a
major portion of my income for *your* bad health habits.

BWAHAHAHAHA

That's right, the insurance company doesn't make generalizations in setting
your premium, they just look at you as Scotty Weiser and set a special rate
based on the fact that you don't eat a lot of potato chips.

That incentivizes me to stay healthy, since I know if I get
sick, I have to pay for it or die. In Canada, there's no impetus to care
for
onesself because if you get sick, the government pays for everything...by
taking from everyone else to cover your bad health.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA

That's right, Canadians are deliberately unhealthy because they know they
can see a doctor without going bankrupt. In fact, I'm working on damaging my
liver right now so that one day I will have the chance for surgery on the
government health plan!!!

That's wrong. Personal responsibility is the best way, always.

That's why Americans are the healthiest people on the planet and obesity has
been all but eliminated there.

None of it matters a whit in a country that forbids a private individual
from obtaining private medical insurance

That's odd. Because the private medical insurance business does pretty well
here. I wonder how they stay in business?

and forces them into the public
system. That's the essence of uncaring socialism.

Yup, very uncaring, trying to ensure that everyone has access to good
quality health care.

I'll stick with the US system, thanks. At least here, I can get whatever
health care I need when I need it, without asking the permission of the
government.

We are all (at least those of us up north) thrilled to hear that!

"Scott Weiser" wrote in message
...
=============
The average Canadian family pays about 48 percent of its income in
taxes
each year,

The author didn't say. However, the point is that *I* don't have to pay a
major portion of my income for *your* bad health habits.
That incentivizes me to stay healthy, since I know if I get
sick, I have to pay for it or die. In Canada, there's no impetus to care
for
onesself because if you get sick, the government pays for everything...by
taking from everyone else to cover your bad health.
That's wrong. Personal responsibility is the best way, always.
None of it matters a whit in a country that forbids a private individual
from obtaining private medical insurance
and forces them into the public
system. That's the essence of uncaring socialism.
I'll stick with the US system, thanks. At least here, I can get whatever
health care I need when I need it, without asking the permission of the
government.

What a MAROON!

Mark

A Usenet persona calling itself Mark H. Bowen wrote:


"Scott Weiser" wrote in message
...
=============
The average Canadian family pays about 48 percent of its income in
taxes
each year,

The author didn't say. However, the point is that *I* don't have to pay a
major portion of my income for *your* bad health habits.
That incentivizes me to stay healthy, since I know if I get
sick, I have to pay for it or die. In Canada, there's no impetus to care
for
onesself because if you get sick, the government pays for everything...by
taking from everyone else to cover your bad health.
That's wrong. Personal responsibility is the best way, always.
None of it matters a whit in a country that forbids a private individual
from obtaining private medical insurance
and forces them into the public
system. That's the essence of uncaring socialism.
I'll stick with the US system, thanks. At least here, I can get whatever
health care I need when I need it, without asking the permission of the
government.

What a MAROON!

Er, no, I've never been a slave, much less an escaped slave of the Spanish.
--
Regards,
Scott Weiser

"I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend on
friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" TM

© 2005 Scott Weiser

"Scott Weiser" wrote in message
...
A Usenet persona calling itself Mark H. Bowen wrote:

What a MAROON!

Er, no, I've never been a slave, much less an escaped slave of the
Spanish.

What an idiot.

Wolfgang

A Usenet persona calling itself Wolfgang wrote:


"Scott Weiser" wrote in message
...
A Usenet persona calling itself Mark H. Bowen wrote:

What a MAROON!

Er, no, I've never been a slave, much less an escaped slave of the
Spanish.

What an idiot.

You certainly are. You're ignorant too.
--
Regards,
Scott Weiser

"I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend on
friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" TM

© 2005 Scott Weiser

"Scott Weiser" wrote in message
...
A Usenet persona calling itself Wolfgang wrote:


"Scott Weiser" wrote in message
...
A Usenet persona calling itself Mark H. Bowen wrote:

What a MAROON!

Er, no, I've never been a slave, much less an escaped slave of the
Spanish.

What an idiot.

You certainly are. You're ignorant too.

Har, har! That's what I love about this place.......every time you turn
around it's another totally unexpected original one and only one of a kind
surprise!

Wolfgang
how DO you guys do it?

A Usenet persona calling itself KMAN wrote:


"Scott Weiser" wrote in message
...
A Usenet persona calling itself BCITORGB wrote:

Scott cites:
=============
The average Canadian family pays about 48 percent of its income in
taxes
each year,
=============

And, Scott, exactly how much tax does the average American pay?

The author didn't say. However, the point is that *I* don't have to pay a
major portion of my income for *your* bad health habits.

BWAHAHAHAHA

That's right, the insurance company doesn't make generalizations in setting
your premium, they just look at you as Scotty Weiser and set a special rate
based on the fact that you don't eat a lot of potato chips.

Well, yes, in large part they do. It's called "cherry picking."


That incentivizes me to stay healthy, since I know if I get
sick, I have to pay for it or die. In Canada, there's no impetus to care
for
onesself because if you get sick, the government pays for everything...by
taking from everyone else to cover your bad health.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA

That's right, Canadians are deliberately unhealthy because they know they
can see a doctor without going bankrupt. In fact, I'm working on damaging my
liver right now so that one day I will have the chance for surgery on the
government health plan!!!

Facts are facts. Canadians are famous for over-indulgence with beer, which
is bad for your liver.



That's wrong. Personal responsibility is the best way, always.

That's why Americans are the healthiest people on the planet and obesity has
been all but eliminated there.

I did not suggest that personal responsibility results in good health, only
that it doesn't shove off the costs of poor health habits onto others. Every
person is entitled to preserve or destroy their health however they choose.
What they're not entitled to do is expect someone else to pay for trying to
heal them when they screw up.


None of it matters a whit in a country that forbids a private individual
from obtaining private medical insurance

That's odd. Because the private medical insurance business does pretty well
here. I wonder how they stay in business?

By soaking dumb Canucks for insurance premiums they would be better advised
to put in the bank.


and forces them into the public
system. That's the essence of uncaring socialism.

Yup, very uncaring, trying to ensure that everyone has access to good
quality health care.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Just ask Stalin's victims.


I'll stick with the US system, thanks. At least here, I can get whatever
health care I need when I need it, without asking the permission of the
government.

We are all (at least those of us up north) thrilled to hear that!

I thought you might be.
--
Regards,
Scott Weiser

"I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend on
friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" TM

© 2005 Scott Weiser

in article , Scott Weiser at
wrote on 3/21/05 7:49 PM:

A Usenet persona calling itself KMAN wrote:


"Scott Weiser" wrote in message
...
A Usenet persona calling itself BCITORGB wrote:

Scott cites:
=============
The average Canadian family pays about 48 percent of its income in
taxes
each year,
=============

And, Scott, exactly how much tax does the average American pay?

The author didn't say. However, the point is that *I* don't have to pay a
major portion of my income for *your* bad health habits.

BWAHAHAHAHA

That's right, the insurance company doesn't make generalizations in setting
your premium, they just look at you as Scotty Weiser and set a special rate
based on the fact that you don't eat a lot of potato chips.

Well, yes, in large part they do. It's called "cherry picking."


That incentivizes me to stay healthy, since I know if I get
sick, I have to pay for it or die. In Canada, there's no impetus to care
for
onesself because if you get sick, the government pays for everything...by
taking from everyone else to cover your bad health.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA

That's right, Canadians are deliberately unhealthy because they know they
can see a doctor without going bankrupt. In fact, I'm working on damaging my
liver right now so that one day I will have the chance for surgery on the
government health plan!!!

Facts are facts. Canadians are famous for over-indulgence with beer, which
is bad for your liver.

Wow, that's brilliant, and it proves your theory that Canadians are
deliberately unhealthy because they have access to health care!

That's wrong. Personal responsibility is the best way, always.

That's why Americans are the healthiest people on the planet and obesity has
been all but eliminated there.

I did not suggest that personal responsibility results in good health, only
that it doesn't shove off the costs of poor health habits onto others. Every
person is entitled to preserve or destroy their health however they choose.
What they're not entitled to do is expect someone else to pay for trying to
heal them when they screw up.

LOL. There are societal consequences to such a "screw you" approach. No
wonder you are a gun nut. Your utopia would obviously be everyone living in
a self-sustaining dwelling with a giant electrified fence to protect them
from having to be in contact with other people or even - gasp - where people
might care about each other.

None of it matters a whit in a country that forbids a private individual
from obtaining private medical insurance

That's odd. Because the private medical insurance business does pretty well
here. I wonder how they stay in business?

By soaking dumb Canucks for insurance premiums they would be better advised
to put in the bank.

?

First you say private medical insurance is forbidden, and hext you say
Canadians are paying to much for it?

and forces them into the public
system. That's the essence of uncaring socialism.

Yup, very uncaring, trying to ensure that everyone has access to good
quality health care.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Just ask Stalin's victims.

Ah, yes, clearly Canada is just a slip away from Stalinist Russia! You are
such a joke, LOL!

I'll stick with the US system, thanks. At least here, I can get whatever
health care I need when I need it, without asking the permission of the
government.

We are all (at least those of us up north) thrilled to hear that!

I thought you might be.

Still dancing!

A Usenet persona calling itself KMAN wrote:

in article , Scott Weiser at
wrote on 3/21/05 7:49 PM:

A Usenet persona calling itself KMAN wrote:


"Scott Weiser" wrote in message
...
A Usenet persona calling itself BCITORGB wrote:

Scott cites:
=============
The average Canadian family pays about 48 percent of its income in
taxes
each year,
=============

And, Scott, exactly how much tax does the average American pay?

The author didn't say. However, the point is that *I* don't have to pay a
major portion of my income for *your* bad health habits.

BWAHAHAHAHA

That's right, the insurance company doesn't make generalizations in setting
your premium, they just look at you as Scotty Weiser and set a special rate
based on the fact that you don't eat a lot of potato chips.

Well, yes, in large part they do. It's called "cherry picking."


That incentivizes me to stay healthy, since I know if I get
sick, I have to pay for it or die. In Canada, there's no impetus to care
for
onesself because if you get sick, the government pays for everything...by
taking from everyone else to cover your bad health.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA

That's right, Canadians are deliberately unhealthy because they know they
can see a doctor without going bankrupt. In fact, I'm working on damaging my
liver right now so that one day I will have the chance for surgery on the
government health plan!!!

Facts are facts. Canadians are famous for over-indulgence with beer, which
is bad for your liver.

Wow, that's brilliant, and it proves your theory that Canadians are
deliberately unhealthy because they have access to health care!

That's wrong. Personal responsibility is the best way, always.

That's why Americans are the healthiest people on the planet and obesity has
been all but eliminated there.

I did not suggest that personal responsibility results in good health, only
that it doesn't shove off the costs of poor health habits onto others. Every
person is entitled to preserve or destroy their health however they choose.
What they're not entitled to do is expect someone else to pay for trying to
heal them when they screw up.

LOL. There are societal consequences to such a "screw you" approach.

Indeed. Liberty, self-reliance, prosperity, individual responsibility,
mutual respect...yep, lots of consequences.

No
wonder you are a gun nut. Your utopia would obviously be everyone living in
a self-sustaining dwelling with a giant electrified fence to protect them
from having to be in contact with other people or even - gasp - where people
might care about each other.

I see. Respecting other people's right to live their lives as they wish
without having the government or one's nosy neighbors interfere is anathema
to you?

My "utopia" is a land where people get to do what they want, so long as they
don't harm others, and other people neither interfere with them nor do they
require them to subsidize the equal exercise of liberty rights by others,
even when such exercise results in some ill effects. This does not preclude
anyone from offering assistance of their own free will, but it does preclude
the "community" from extracting "caring" by force of law from those who do
not choose to be "caring" for one reason or another.



None of it matters a whit in a country that forbids a private individual
from obtaining private medical insurance

That's odd. Because the private medical insurance business does pretty well
here. I wonder how they stay in business?

By soaking dumb Canucks for insurance premiums they would be better advised
to put in the bank.

?

First you say private medical insurance is forbidden, and hext you say
Canadians are paying to much for it?

Yeah, Canadians are *really* stupid that way...buying something they can't
use and don't need. Sheesh.

--
Regards,
Scott Weiser

"I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend on
friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" TM

© 2005 Scott Weiser