Keenan Wellar wrote:
in article ,
Steve
Cramer at wrote on 1/15/05 7:44 PM:

Tinkerntom wrote:
Michael Daly wrote:

On 15-Jan-2005, Melissa
wrote:

.... snip

FYI...Tinkerntom often gives a pill a headache.

Well hello Keenan, glad to see that you are still hanging around the
old haunts. I saw your post earlier, and chose not to post to you in
the spirit of our previous communication. The last thing I said was
that I would not bother you any more unless you first directed a
comment at me. Well this sounds like you said Hi, so I hope that all is
well with you and your family. Hopefully you can get over the headache,
I got over mine! TnT

On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 06:34:48 GMT, "Michael Daly"
wrote:

On 15-Jan-2005, Galen Hekhuis wrote:

I don't think there is a "drysuit certification"
anyway, at least I haven't heard of it, but like I say, I don't dive.

There is drysuit certification. Since you use your drysuit instead of
BC for bouyancy control, you have to learn the ins and outs of the
drysuit. There are also issues wrt making sure the air in the drysuit
doesn't go into the legs etc.

Clearly I was wrong. I would have been more accurate if I had said that
there was no certification requirement to use a drysuit like there is for
getting SCUBA tanks filled with air. It is very difficult to get a SCUBA
tank filled if you cannot show proof of training from some agency, there is
no such restriction on donning a drysuit.

BTW dive drysuits that I've seen are much tougher than paddling
suits. They tend to be aimed at pro or very serious divers
(since the average rec diver avoids cold water) and are made
to last.

All the drysuits that I've seen have been owned by local divers, and, while
they don't think of themselves as being professional, they do consider
themselves rather serious about cave diving (though sometimes not about
other things). I don't know what you consider cold, but a lot of divers
I've talked to consider decompressing in 73 degree water to be rather
chilly, considering it may be some time of doing virtually nothing. In any
event, most of what I hear them complain about is little leaks as opposed
to tears and rips. While drysuits used by kayakers may be of lighter
construction, they aren't made of flimsy material either. Unless one is
completely submerged, it is difficult (though not beyond the realm of
possibility) for me to imagine a circumstance in which a kayaker might have
their drysuit flood to the point of becoming a hazard in itself.

What I know about immersion protection could be put in an ant's brain and
it would roll around like a B-B in a boxcar, which is one of the reasons I
generally stick to the warm waters of Florida. I don't have to deal with
shoveling snow out of the driveway, either.

Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA
Guns don't kill people, religions do

Or get another bigger boat and take them with you! TnT

Granted, and hopefully they listen to the advise, as Sparks apparent
has. I am not saying avoid cold, but avoid stupid! To quote Forrest
Gump, " Stupid is, as stupid does!"

I love being a newbie, because as a newbie, I can't make any mistakes
except not asking questions. The problem is that once I ask the
questions, and then go out and get some experience, I am no longer just
a newbie. At best I can be a wiser newbie, maybe a stupid newbie, and
hopefully not a dead newbie! TnT

Granted, and hopefully they listen to the advise, as Sparks apparent
has. I am not saying avoid cold, but avoid stupid! To quote Forrest
Gump, " Stupid is, as stupid does!"


I love being a newbie, because as a newbie, I can't make any mistakes
except not asking questions. The problem is that once I ask the
questions, and then go out and get some experience, I am no longer just
a newbie. At best I can be a wiser newbie, maybe a stupid newbie, and
hopefully not a dead newbie!

The worst scenario, is a bunch of newbies going off and doing the
newbie thing, and getting a dose of reality altogether when they were
altogether unprepared for that reality. TnT

....stuff deleted

All the drysuits that I've seen have been owned by local divers, and, while
they don't think of themselves as being professional, they do consider
themselves rather serious about cave diving (though sometimes not about
other things). I don't know what you consider cold, but a lot of divers
I've talked to consider decompressing in 73 degree water to be rather
chilly, considering it may be some time of doing virtually nothing. In any
event, most of what I hear them complain about is little leaks as opposed
to tears and rips. While drysuits used by kayakers may be of lighter
construction, they aren't made of flimsy material either. Unless one is
completely submerged, it is difficult (though not beyond the realm of
possibility) for me to imagine a circumstance in which a kayaker might have
their drysuit flood to the point of becoming a hazard in itself.


The shop I dove with (I haven't been diving in quite a while) provided
dry suit certification with each sale of product. If you were not
associated with the shop, you did not have a card on file. If so, you
were asked what certifications you had prior to renting equipment and
were required to provide (at the very least) your NAUI or PADI card.
While these did not indicate dry suit certification, they did suggest
the level of achievement of the diver and made them feel as though they
followed reasonable process in case of liability.

Here in the west, the ocean is seldom above 55F (in Monterey, the
temperatures don't fluctuate much due to the cold water upwellings) and
drop to mid to low forties as you go deeper (70-100 ft). This is fine
for wetsuits (6mm), even during decom stops, though those who dive "dry"
tend to be happier afterward (grin).

What I know about immersion protection could be put in an ant's brain and
it would roll around like a B-B in a boxcar, which is one of the reasons I
generally stick to the warm waters of Florida. I don't have to deal with
shoveling snow out of the driveway, either.


It really isn't that much different, you just need to dress
appropriately (which often means too warmly since it can be quite warm
out here 3 seasons of the year). Often this means lots of rolling or
rescue practice to cool off.

Rick

in article , Tinkerntom
at wrote on 1/16/05 3:53 AM:


Keenan Wellar wrote:
in article ,
Steve
Cramer at wrote on 1/15/05 7:44 PM:

Tinkerntom wrote:
Michael Daly wrote:

On 15-Jan-2005, Melissa
wrote:

... snip

FYI...Tinkerntom often gives a pill a headache.

Well hello Keenan, glad to see that you are still hanging around the
old haunts. I saw your post earlier, and chose not to post to you in
the spirit of our previous communication. The last thing I said was
that I would not bother you any more unless you first directed a
comment at me. Well this sounds like you said Hi, so I hope that all is
well with you and your family. Hopefully you can get over the headache,
I got over mine! TnT

I actually meant to say you'd give an aspirin a headache. Sorry.

in article , Tinkerntom
at wrote on 1/16/05 7:06 PM:

Granted, and hopefully they listen to the advise, as Sparks apparent
has. I am not saying avoid cold, but avoid stupid! To quote Forrest
Gump, " Stupid is, as stupid does!"


I love being a newbie, because as a newbie, I can't make any mistakes
except not asking questions. The problem is that once I ask the
questions, and then go out and get some experience, I am no longer just
a newbie. At best I can be a wiser newbie, maybe a stupid newbie, and
hopefully not a dead newbie!

The worst scenario, is a bunch of newbies going off and doing the
newbie thing, and getting a dose of reality altogether when they were
altogether unprepared for that reality. TnT

Questions:

How many people die each year while sea kayaking?

What percentage of those are actually beginners?

Keenan Wellar wrote:
....Snip
I actually meant to say you'd give an aspirin a headache. Sorry.

Sorry I caused you so much discomfort! Try Advil, it works better than
aspirin to relax and relieve inflamation. 1/2 Aspirin a day, works if
you are having heart problems, supposedly acts as a blood thinner. I
keep both in my survival pack, cause you never know when you may need
some. Like now! :-)TnT

"Tinkerntom" wrote in message
oups.com...

Keenan Wellar wrote:
....Snip
I actually meant to say you'd give an aspirin a headache. Sorry.

Sorry I caused you so much discomfort! Try Advil, it works better than
aspirin to relax and relieve inflamation.

I try to avoid all use of drugs. In this case, totally unecessary anyway.
The problem is solved by simply changing one's approach to the source of the
headache. I could sense the high level of discomfort in others discovering
the Tinkerntom phenomenon for the first time, and thus my comment.