On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 23:45:48 -0700, "jps" wrote:

Among the criteria for job satisfaction IMHO is admiring the engineering,
manufacture and assembly of the machinery. Finely crafted cars are a joy to
work on. I wouldn't have cared where the cars were manufactured or who
manufactured them. As it turned out, I worked on German cars. They were
infinitely more interesting, pleasing and rewarding to work on. And,
because it took more than an average Joe to work on them, I made more money
than those working on American cars.

As for mechanics, most of them are parts replacers. If you asked them to
solve a problem that didn't have a part # associated with it or a diagram
for assembly, most of 'em would throw up their hands. Automobile repair
used to be much more of a craft. There is great beauty in machines and the
more the mechanic is an admirer of the craft, the closer that person would
be to my own point of view. Mr. Goodwrench probably wouldn't fit my
expectation of a craftsman.

Some snipped.

jps, if the American mechanics saw your attitude, you'd be run right out of
liberaldom.

Having spent many years in Europe, during all of which I drove German
automobiles or Italian motorcycles, I had a lot of interaction with German auto
and motorcycle mechanics. It is true that becoming a 'certified' mechanic in
Germany requires a formal apprenticeship program under a master. However, it is
not true that the mechanics are all 'craftsmen'.

Auto mechanics generally make repairs by diagnosing the problem, then either
replacing a part or making an adjustment to a part. Very seldom does a mechanic
of any automobile craft a part to replace. Even German autos and Italian
motorcycles use parts with part numbers.

What makes a mechanic good is her/his ability to diagnose the problem and
efficiently repair it.

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

John, are you saying that you don't have to be a German Mechanic to be a
competant mechanic? Do you expect us to believe that a US mechanic is just
as qualified as a German Mechanic?

Next thing you will be telling us is that US management is not the reason
for the US not being competitive in the world marketplace. You sound like a
radical.


"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 23:45:48 -0700, "jps" wrote:

Among the criteria for job satisfaction IMHO is admiring the engineering,
manufacture and assembly of the machinery. Finely crafted cars are a joy
to
work on. I wouldn't have cared where the cars were manufactured or who
manufactured them. As it turned out, I worked on German cars. They were
infinitely more interesting, pleasing and rewarding to work on. And,
because it took more than an average Joe to work on them, I made more
money
than those working on American cars.

As for mechanics, most of them are parts replacers. If you asked them to
solve a problem that didn't have a part # associated with it or a diagram
for assembly, most of 'em would throw up their hands. Automobile repair
used to be much more of a craft. There is great beauty in machines and
the
more the mechanic is an admirer of the craft, the closer that person
would
be to my own point of view. Mr. Goodwrench probably wouldn't fit my
expectation of a craftsman.

Some snipped.

jps, if the American mechanics saw your attitude, you'd be run right out
of
liberaldom.

Having spent many years in Europe, during all of which I drove German
automobiles or Italian motorcycles, I had a lot of interaction with German
auto
and motorcycle mechanics. It is true that becoming a 'certified' mechanic
in
Germany requires a formal apprenticeship program under a master. However,
it is
not true that the mechanics are all 'craftsmen'.

Auto mechanics generally make repairs by diagnosing the problem, then
either
replacing a part or making an adjustment to a part. Very seldom does a
mechanic
of any automobile craft a part to replace. Even German autos and Italian
motorcycles use parts with part numbers.

What makes a mechanic good is her/his ability to diagnose the problem and
efficiently repair it.

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

snicker :-)




"Bill Cole" wrote in message
news:adxSa.105978$Ph3.13245@sccrnsc04...
We all are learning so much in rec.boats. Harry has observed that the
problem with the US Manufacturing lies in poor management and JPS has so
wisely observed that the problem lies in product design. Our auto
designers
are making cars that are too easy to repair. We need to design products
so
the mechanics have to be craftsman to repair a car. This achieves two
objectives, it provides job satisfaction for the mechanic and helps to
make
it more expensive to repair the car. Today, all a mechanic needs to do
to
repair a car is replace a part, but if we designed the car correctly, it
would take a "craftsman" to be able to solve the problem. Think of the
job
satisfaction the mechanic will receive by solving a problem that no one
else
was able to solve. Think about how much money he will be able to make
when
his skills are so much better than anyone else that he can charge twice
the
price than the other mechanics who are not as good as he is.

jps has not only come up with a solution to help the US become more
competitive in the world marketplace, but he has also found a way to
provide
increased enjoyment in the workplace.

Great job.
"jps" wrote in message
...
Among the criteria for job satisfaction IMHO is admiring the
engineering,
manufacture and assembly of the machinery. Finely crafted cars are a
joy
to
work on. I wouldn't have cared where the cars were manufactured or who
manufactured them. As it turned out, I worked on German cars. They
were
infinitely more interesting, pleasing and rewarding to work on. And,
because it took more than an average Joe to work on them, I made more
money
than those working on American cars.

As for mechanics, most of them are parts replacers. If you asked them
to
solve a problem that didn't have a part # associated with it or a
diagram
for assembly, most of 'em would throw up their hands. Automobile repair
used to be much more of a craft. There is great beauty in machines and
the
more the mechanic is an admirer of the craft, the closer that person
would
be to my own point of view. Mr. Goodwrench probably wouldn't fit my
expectation of a craftsman.

A good marine engine mechanic is far more likely to be a craftsman.

Next point: I don't think American workers are inferior. I think
they're
among the best in the world. Unfortunately, they have crappy (any Ford,
GM
or Chrysler) or boring (Honda Accord) products to work on. The
Americans
were the ones who came up with planned obsolescence and I wouldn't be
surprised if Detroit weren't the ones who paved the path.

Look at the fine workmanship in the aerospace industry. That's what
American workers are capable of.


"Bill Cole" wrote in message
et...
As a newbie to rec.boats, it is funny to read some of the posts and
not
know
the history behind the people, but it is reasonable to assume you hold
mechanics to be a lower life form when you make the following posts:
" I used to make a living turning wrenches when I was a
punk
too.
That was 25 years ago and I didn't waste my time working on boring US
trashmobiles. Had a whole dang box o' Snap On by the time I retired
from
grease monkeyhood."

It sounds like you don't like mechanics or US made cars. I suppose
you
are
one of those who think US workers are inferior too. Let's ship all of
our
production to Germany and Japan where they can make quality products.


"jps" wrote in message
...
I was a mechanic you simp.

I still find great pride in working with my hands. I found that
working
with my brain a more efficient trade for worldly resources.

I do all my own maintenance, including major overhauls. How about
you?


"Put Name Here" wrote in message
news:KDQRa.89913$H17.28358@sccrnsc02...

Wow, now you are putting down people who work with their hands,
you
limo
liberals are such hypocrites.

"Bill Cole" wrote in message
news:2PwSa.92123$GL4.25251@rwcrnsc53...

With genius like this so readily available, I am amazed we have any
problems
being competitive in the world market.

Don't you see? The problem is that all of the geniuses are here posting on
Usenet and not running the country or the corporations.

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 23:45:48 -0700, "jps" wrote:

As for mechanics, most of them are parts replacers.

Automobile repair used to be much more of a craft.

What makes a mechanic good is her/his ability to diagnose the problem and
efficiently repair it.

Read the statements above. The first says "most," that doesn't mean all. I
know it's hard for you conservatives to see anything other than black and
white.

The second says "used to be" which indicates past tense.

Once you and Bill learn reading comprehension, you're welcome to come back
and argue my points.

JPS,
Harry explained to us that the problem with US manufacturing has nothing to
do with labor unions, it is that management is poor. Is Harry one of the
people that I should listen to in the NG or is he one of the radical
conservatives?

Bill

"jps" wrote in message
...
"Bill Cole" wrote in message
news:nuESa.108124$Ph3.13834@sccrnsc04...
John, are you saying that you don't have to be a German Mechanic to be a
competant mechanic? Do you expect us to believe that a US mechanic is
just
as qualified as a German Mechanic?

Next thing you will be telling us is that US management is not the
reason
for the US not being competitive in the world marketplace. You sound
like
a
radical.

No one said anything about having to be German to be a good mechanic.
Although, in Germany, it normally takes some factory training or, as John
pointed out, an apprenticeship. That would indicate they're more serious
about the "craft."

What is your continuing point about management? Is there something you'd
like to say or is your point to be obnoxiously obtuse?

Explain the theory of planned obsolescence to us Bill. You seems to be
hiding so much inside information maybe you could edify us on the practice
in America's auto industry.

John,
I think what jps was trying to tell you is that any good mechanic would not
work on an American car. A good mechanic would chose to work on a German
Car. Why can't you understand the obvious.

Bill
"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 21:36:19 -0700, "jps" wrote:

"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 23:45:48 -0700, "jps" wrote:

As for mechanics, most of them are parts replacers.

Automobile repair used to be much more of a craft.

What makes a mechanic good is her/his ability to diagnose the problem
and
efficiently repair it.

Read the statements above. The first says "most," that doesn't mean all.
I
know it's hard for you conservatives to see anything other than black and
white.

The second says "used to be" which indicates past tense.

Once you and Bill learn reading comprehension, you're welcome to come
back
and argue my points.

Wow, a little touchy today, huh? When you were a mechanic you were as much
a
part replacer as any of the 'most' mechanics to which you refer. The fact
the
you replaced parts on German cars, after looking up the part number, makes
you
no more proficient than 'most' mechanics.

Diagnosis and efficiency are the keys to a good mechanic, whether it be on
European or American cars. Neither have a thing to do with part numbers,
which
have been around as long as you have been working on automobiles.

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"Joe" wrote in message
. ..

Here ya go Asslicker, here's a link to a pic of my ASE
certification,
and
one of my GM Certifications (have a few more, have to find them).
Sorry, but my Engineering Cert is not going through my roller
scanner. I
will be happy to post that also once I have access to flatbed
scanner.

http://photos.yahoo.com/recboats

there blank. nothing there.


Bull****.

So, Joe, you stated that you were an engineer. I ask, again, in WHAT
states are you a licensed professional engineer? Registration numbers?

Since it seems you cant read a thread, here it is again-

Licensed as an Engineer?

Not required nor available for Communications Engineering in FL or GA.
RCDD is the industry standard for communications engineering. 90% plus large
industry/government contracts require an RCDD stamped approval for all
communications design plans, and an RCDD onsite during installation for
QA/QC and PM.

But, since your an engineer yourself, you already knew that.
Didn't you?

"Joe" wrote in message news:C5TSa.47301
Licensed as an Engineer?

Not required nor available for Communications Engineering in FL or GA.
RCDD is the industry standard for communications engineering. 90% plus large
industry/government contracts require an RCDD stamped approval for all
communications design plans, and an RCDD onsite during installation for
QA/QC and PM.

But, since your an engineer yourself, you already knew that.
Didn't you?

Pure horse****, there Blow. If you practice engineering in the state
of GA, even use the word ENGINEER in your business name, reference to
yourself, etc., you MUST be licensed as a professional engineer.
Florida is very similar:

Professional Engineer - An individual who practices engineering in
Georgia, unless specifically exempted under the provisions of O.C.G.A.
43-15-29, must be licensed by the Board. As such, a registrant may
legally represent himself/herself to the public as an engineer, offer
consulting engineering services to private and public entities and
perform engineering design or construction on public works. A licensed
Professional Engineer must also adhere to the rules of professional
conduct established by the Board.


43-15-29. Exceptions to operation of chapter.
(a) Nothing in this chapter shall be construed as excluding a
qualified architect registered in this state from such engineering
practice as may be incident to the practice of his profession or as
excluding a professional engineer from such architectural practice as
may be incident to the practice of professional engineering.
(b) The following persons shall be exempt from this chapter:
(1) A person working as an employee or a subordinate of a person
holding a certificate of registration under this chapter or an
employee of a person practicing lawfully under Code Section 43-15-21,
provided such work does not include final design decisions and is done
under the supervision of, and responsibility therefor is assumed by, a
person holding a certificate of registration under this chapter or a
person practicing lawfully under Code Section 43-15-21;
(2) Officers and employees of the government of the United States
while engaged within this state in the practice of professional
engineering or land surveying for such government;
(3) All elective officers of the political subdivision of the state
while in the practice of professional engineering or land surveying in
the performance of their official duties; and
(4) Officers and employees of the Department of Transportation, except
as required by Title 46, while engaged within this state in the
practice of professional engineering or land surveying for such
department.
(c) This chapter shall not be construed as requiring registration for
the purpose of practicing professional engineering or land surveying
by an individual, firm, or corporation on property owned or leased by
such individual, firm, or corporation unless the same involves the
public safety or public health or for the performance of engineering
which relates solely to the design or fabrication of manufactured
products.
(d) This chapter shall not be construed to prevent or affect the
practice of professional engineering and land surveying with respect
to utility facilities by any public utility subject to regulation by
the Public Service Commission, the Federal Communications Commission,
the Federal Power Commission, or like regulatory agencies, including
its parents, affiliates, or subsidiaries; or by the officers and
full-time permanent employees of any such public utility, including
its parents, affiliates, or subsidiaries, except where such practice
involves property lines of adjoining property owners, provided that
this exception does not extend to any professional engineer or land
surveyor engaged in the practice of professional engineering or land
surveying whose compensation is based in whole or in part on a fee or
to any engineering services performed by the above-referenced utility
companies not directly connected with work on their facilities.
(e) This chapter shall not be construed to affect the lawful practice
of a person acting within the scope of a license granted by the state
under any other law.

[Top | Laws and Rules]

43-15-30. Unlawful acts.
(a) Any person who violates Code Section 43-15-7 shall be guilty of a
misdemeanor.
(b) Any person presenting or attempting to use as his own the
certificate of registration or the seal of another obtained under this
chapter shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
(c) Any person who gives any false or forged evidence of any kind to
the board or to any member thereof in obtaining a certificate or
certificate of registration shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
(d) Any person who falsely impersonates any other registrant or any
person who attempts to use an expired or revoked certificate of
registration shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
(e) Each day or occurrence shall be considered a separate offense.
(f) Any person offering services to the public who uses by name,
verbal claim, sign, advertisement, directory listing, or letterhead
the words "Engineer," "Engineers," "Professional Engineering,"
"Engineering," or "Engineered" shall be guilty of a misdemeanor unless
said person has complied with the provisions of this chapter.

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 16:13:10 -0500, Q
wrote:

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 05:41:45 GMT, "Joe" wrote:

Then why are you using Microsnort Outlook Express. That piece of crap
is riddled with security holes!!!


Renifleur d'âne

Shpx bss, qvpxjnq.

Hey engiener, no witty reply?

--
Q