Bill Cole wrote:



It sounds like you don't like mechanics or US made cars. I suppose you are
one of those who think US workers are inferior too. Let's ship all of our
production to Germany and Japan where they can make quality products.


If US cars are crappy, and some of them truly are, it isn't the fault of
the workers. They assemble what they are given to assemble. Recently, I
rented a Pontiac four-door sedan for a couple of days from Avis. The car
was almost new. While it wasn't falling apart, it certainly was a
p.o.s., badly engineered, with a lousy ride, so-so brakes and an engine
ill-matched to its transmission. Nothing about the car was related to
the assembly line workers.


--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.

OK, so the US workers are all first class, but US management suck, I guess
it does make sense to ship all our production overseas, since the workers
can not do any better than the product, management gives them. Should we
ship our production to Japan or Germany?


Well that does not sound any better than someone saying
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Bill Cole wrote:



It sounds like you don't like mechanics or US made cars. I suppose you
are
one of those who think US workers are inferior too. Let's ship all of
our
production to Germany and Japan where they can make quality products.


If US cars are crappy, and some of them truly are, it isn't the fault of
the workers. They assemble what they are given to assemble. Recently, I
rented a Pontiac four-door sedan for a couple of days from Avis. The car
was almost new. While it wasn't falling apart, it certainly was a
p.o.s., badly engineered, with a lousy ride, so-so brakes and an engine
ill-matched to its transmission. Nothing about the car was related to
the assembly line workers.


--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.

Should we
ship our production to Japan or Germany?



No. Japan and Germany are far too expensive. As a result much of our industrial
production is shifting to China,
India, Malayasia and anywhere else people will work for $100 US a week. Or
less.

Skilled engineeers and professionals are going (literally) begging in the
former Soviet Union, and many will work for about 10% of the cost of employing
a American in a similar capacity.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Bill Cole wrote:



It sounds like you don't like mechanics or US made cars. I suppose you
are
one of those who think US workers are inferior too. Let's ship all of
our
production to Germany and Japan where they can make quality products.


If US cars are crappy, and some of them truly are, it isn't the fault of
the workers.

Your right for once. It has much to due with the UAW tactics.

From Time.com-

Warmer Labor Relations

Contrary to popular belief, workers' wages and benefits at the transplant
factories - none of which are unionized except for joint ventures with
Detroit - are comparable to those at factories organized by the United Auto
Workers (UAW). Assembly-line workers, regardless of their location, earn
about $45,000 to $100,000 a year (depending on experience and overtime).
Bonuses are typically tied to profitability, and health-care and pension
benefits vary only slightly.

But job classifications at transplant factories are broader. Line workers
are trained in a variety of tasks - say, spot welding as well as interior
assembly - and they rotate jobs frequently. They're less susceptible to
boredom and repetitive-stress injuries. They're also trained to do
preventive maintenance. At Toyota plants, every assembly-line worker has the
authority to stop the line if he or she spots, say, a flaw in a windshield.
More important, workers are encouraged by management to do so.

The long and often bitter relationship between the Big Three and the UAW
means that their work practices are rooted not in mutual trust but in a
system of sometimes picky rules. A "skilled tradesman" may be required to
change a fuse in an assembly-line machine, a task that an assembly worker
could easily be trained to perform. Work rules differ from plant to plant
because agreements are negotiated with local union leaders. If a tradesman
notices a line worker fiddling with equipment, he may file a grievance,
claiming that his job is being undercut by a lower-paid employee.

A flexible work force is especially critical for maintaining line speed if
the model mix changes frequently. After a switch, a worker who formerly
needed two minutes to help install a wiring harness might need only 90
seconds, meaning he or she could do another job - if allowed. But at some
Big Three plants, assigning a new task to a worker requires consulting the
local union leader, who might approve the extra job but insist on a quid pro
quo - say, extra break time. Such complications can make it more costly to
adjust the vehicle mix - leading to unsold vehicles and requiring more
profit-eating 0% financing.

Since the early 1980s, the UAW has mounted campaigns to organize the
transplants' hourly workers, but they have consistently voted against
joining, in part because of strong community support for the manufacturers
and a sense of mutual loyalty. "Nissan takes care of its employees, and if
the union tries to organize us, I'll probably oppose it," says Murphy
Wilson, 27, a newly hired technician in Canton. The UAW has tried four times
to win over Nissan's Smyrna work force but was voted down 2 to 1 in its last
try in 2001. "We have not given up on the transnationals," says UAW
president Ron Gettelfinger, who claims that "fear, intimidation and threats
hold workers back" from inviting unions into transplant factories. In 2001
some organizers publicly accused Nissan managers of strong-arming employees
in Smyrna.

In the next round of national labor negotiations this summer, the Big Three
are expected to demand benefit cuts and broader job classifications. Griping
has already begun. "They want us to do more and more and offer us less and
less," says Bill Parker, president of UAW Local 1700 in Detroit and head of
a Chrysler work force. In theory, Detroit could emulate the transplants and
set up nonunionized shops in the South, but the UAW would probably bring
assembly operations to a halt.

http://www.time.com/time/globalbusin...451002,00.html

Then why are you using Microsnort Outlook Express. That piece of crap
is riddled with security holes!!!


Renifleur d'âne

Regards

Joe

Among the criteria for job satisfaction IMHO is admiring the engineering,
manufacture and assembly of the machinery. Finely crafted cars are a joy to
work on. I wouldn't have cared where the cars were manufactured or who
manufactured them. As it turned out, I worked on German cars. They were
infinitely more interesting, pleasing and rewarding to work on. And,
because it took more than an average Joe to work on them, I made more money
than those working on American cars.

As for mechanics, most of them are parts replacers. If you asked them to
solve a problem that didn't have a part # associated with it or a diagram
for assembly, most of 'em would throw up their hands. Automobile repair
used to be much more of a craft. There is great beauty in machines and the
more the mechanic is an admirer of the craft, the closer that person would
be to my own point of view. Mr. Goodwrench probably wouldn't fit my
expectation of a craftsman.

A good marine engine mechanic is far more likely to be a craftsman.

Next point: I don't think American workers are inferior. I think they're
among the best in the world. Unfortunately, they have crappy (any Ford, GM
or Chrysler) or boring (Honda Accord) products to work on. The Americans
were the ones who came up with planned obsolescence and I wouldn't be
surprised if Detroit weren't the ones who paved the path.

Look at the fine workmanship in the aerospace industry. That's what
American workers are capable of.


"Bill Cole" wrote in message
et...
As a newbie to rec.boats, it is funny to read some of the posts and not
know
the history behind the people, but it is reasonable to assume you hold
mechanics to be a lower life form when you make the following posts:
" I used to make a living turning wrenches when I was a punk
too.
That was 25 years ago and I didn't waste my time working on boring US
trashmobiles. Had a whole dang box o' Snap On by the time I retired from
grease monkeyhood."

It sounds like you don't like mechanics or US made cars. I suppose you
are
one of those who think US workers are inferior too. Let's ship all of our
production to Germany and Japan where they can make quality products.


"jps" wrote in message
...
I was a mechanic you simp.

I still find great pride in working with my hands. I found that working
with my brain a more efficient trade for worldly resources.

I do all my own maintenance, including major overhauls. How about you?


"Put Name Here" wrote in message
news:KDQRa.89913$H17.28358@sccrnsc02...

Wow, now you are putting down people who work with their hands, you
limo
liberals are such hypocrites.

It's more likely to go to Mexico.

"Bill Cole" wrote in message
news:s3gSa.100425$H17.30337@sccrnsc02...
OK, so the US workers are all first class, but US management suck, I guess
it does make sense to ship all our production overseas, since the workers
can not do any better than the product, management gives them. Should we
ship our production to Japan or Germany?


Well that does not sound any better than someone saying
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Bill Cole wrote:



It sounds like you don't like mechanics or US made cars. I suppose
you
are
one of those who think US workers are inferior too. Let's ship all of
our
production to Germany and Japan where they can make quality products.


If US cars are crappy, and some of them truly are, it isn't the fault of
the workers. They assemble what they are given to assemble. Recently, I
rented a Pontiac four-door sedan for a couple of days from Avis. The car
was almost new. While it wasn't falling apart, it certainly was a
p.o.s., badly engineered, with a lousy ride, so-so brakes and an engine
ill-matched to its transmission. Nothing about the car was related to
the assembly line workers.


--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.

jps wrote:

It's more likely to go to Mexico.

"Bill Cole" wrote in message
news:s3gSa.100425$H17.30337@sccrnsc02...
OK, so the US workers are all first class, but US management suck, I guess
it does make sense to ship all our production overseas, since the workers
can not do any better than the product, management gives them. Should we
ship our production to Japan or Germany?


Well that does not sound any better than someone saying
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Bill Cole wrote:



It sounds like you don't like mechanics or US made cars. I suppose
you
are
one of those who think US workers are inferior too. Let's ship all of
our
production to Germany and Japan where they can make quality products.


If US cars are crappy, and some of them truly are, it isn't the fault of
the workers. They assemble what they are given to assemble. Recently, I
rented a Pontiac four-door sedan for a couple of days from Avis. The car
was almost new. While it wasn't falling apart, it certainly was a
p.o.s., badly engineered, with a lousy ride, so-so brakes and an engine
ill-matched to its transmission. Nothing about the car was related to
the assembly line workers.



Perhaps it is just manufacturing management that needs to be replaced, eh?





--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.

Yeah, that's the ticket. We need to get rid of all of manufacture
management. We could go to Japan and Germany and hire the best managers
and that will solve our problems.

With genius like this so readily available, I am amazed we have any problems
being competitive in the world market.


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
jps wrote:

It's more likely to go to Mexico.

"Bill Cole" wrote in message
news:s3gSa.100425$H17.30337@sccrnsc02...
OK, so the US workers are all first class, but US management suck, I
guess
it does make sense to ship all our production overseas, since the
workers
can not do any better than the product, management gives them. Should
we
ship our production to Japan or Germany?


Well that does not sound any better than someone saying
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Bill Cole wrote:



It sounds like you don't like mechanics or US made cars. I suppose
you
are
one of those who think US workers are inferior too. Let's ship all
of
our
production to Germany and Japan where they can make quality
products.


If US cars are crappy, and some of them truly are, it isn't the fault
of
the workers. They assemble what they are given to assemble. Recently,
I
rented a Pontiac four-door sedan for a couple of days from Avis. The
car
was almost new. While it wasn't falling apart, it certainly was a
p.o.s., badly engineered, with a lousy ride, so-so brakes and an
engine
ill-matched to its transmission. Nothing about the car was related to
the assembly line workers.



Perhaps it is just manufacturing management that needs to be replaced, eh?





--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.

We all are learning so much in rec.boats. Harry has observed that the
problem with the US Manufacturing lies in poor management and JPS has so
wisely observed that the problem lies in product design. Our auto designers
are making cars that are too easy to repair. We need to design products so
the mechanics have to be craftsman to repair a car. This achieves two
objectives, it provides job satisfaction for the mechanic and helps to make
it more expensive to repair the car. Today, all a mechanic needs to do to
repair a car is replace a part, but if we designed the car correctly, it
would take a "craftsman" to be able to solve the problem. Think of the job
satisfaction the mechanic will receive by solving a problem that no one else
was able to solve. Think about how much money he will be able to make when
his skills are so much better than anyone else that he can charge twice the
price than the other mechanics who are not as good as he is.

jps has not only come up with a solution to help the US become more
competitive in the world marketplace, but he has also found a way to provide
increased enjoyment in the workplace.

Great job.
"jps" wrote in message
...
Among the criteria for job satisfaction IMHO is admiring the engineering,
manufacture and assembly of the machinery. Finely crafted cars are a joy
to
work on. I wouldn't have cared where the cars were manufactured or who
manufactured them. As it turned out, I worked on German cars. They were
infinitely more interesting, pleasing and rewarding to work on. And,
because it took more than an average Joe to work on them, I made more
money
than those working on American cars.

As for mechanics, most of them are parts replacers. If you asked them to
solve a problem that didn't have a part # associated with it or a diagram
for assembly, most of 'em would throw up their hands. Automobile repair
used to be much more of a craft. There is great beauty in machines and
the
more the mechanic is an admirer of the craft, the closer that person would
be to my own point of view. Mr. Goodwrench probably wouldn't fit my
expectation of a craftsman.

A good marine engine mechanic is far more likely to be a craftsman.

Next point: I don't think American workers are inferior. I think they're
among the best in the world. Unfortunately, they have crappy (any Ford,
GM
or Chrysler) or boring (Honda Accord) products to work on. The Americans
were the ones who came up with planned obsolescence and I wouldn't be
surprised if Detroit weren't the ones who paved the path.

Look at the fine workmanship in the aerospace industry. That's what
American workers are capable of.


"Bill Cole" wrote in message
et...
As a newbie to rec.boats, it is funny to read some of the posts and not
know
the history behind the people, but it is reasonable to assume you hold
mechanics to be a lower life form when you make the following posts:
" I used to make a living turning wrenches when I was a punk
too.
That was 25 years ago and I didn't waste my time working on boring US
trashmobiles. Had a whole dang box o' Snap On by the time I retired
from
grease monkeyhood."

It sounds like you don't like mechanics or US made cars. I suppose you
are
one of those who think US workers are inferior too. Let's ship all of
our
production to Germany and Japan where they can make quality products.


"jps" wrote in message
...
I was a mechanic you simp.

I still find great pride in working with my hands. I found that
working
with my brain a more efficient trade for worldly resources.

I do all my own maintenance, including major overhauls. How about
you?


"Put Name Here" wrote in message
news:KDQRa.89913$H17.28358@sccrnsc02...

Wow, now you are putting down people who work with their hands, you
limo
liberals are such hypocrites.