Matt Lang wrote:

Guys,

I am trying to find out how much more (or less) oil a 2 stroke uses
compared to a 4 stroke.

Thus, I need to know about your 4 stroke motor (inboard or outboard):

- Horsepower, brand

Ford-based Palmer Crusader ThermoElectron 220 hp V-8

- amount of oil it takes for an oil change (incl filter)

5 qts. inc filter, @ $4.09 qt. for Mobil 1

- how often do you change your oil (how many hours)

45-50 hrs.

- how often does the manufacturer recommend you change the oil?

100 hrs

- Does your motor burn or lose oil?

No.

Do you have to top up in between oil changes?

No.


At about 6 gal/hr. on average, we are "using" about the same amount of
oil per hour, at about $2.05/pt., as our Glastron/115 hp Evinrude which
also uses about 6 gal/hr of 50:1 in normal mixed use. It's just about a
wash with us - both are 16' fiberglass boats - unless we start using the
inboard more (which we probably will as the kids start skiing more).

When we were using the Glastron 100-120 hrs. / year, and snowmobiling
all winter, we bought a 55 gallon drum of Kendall 2 stroke. That was a
big money saver... it kills me to pay retail for oil now...

Rob

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:07:33 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Matt Lang" wrote in message
. com...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Matt Lang" wrote in message
om...
Guys,

I am trying to find out how much more (or less) oil a 2 stroke uses
compared to a 4 stroke.

Thus, I need to know about your 4 stroke motor (inboard or outboard):

- Horsepower, brand
- amount of oil it takes for an oil change (incl filter)
- how often do you change your oil (how many hours)
- how often does the manufacturer recommend you change the oil?
- Does your motor burn or lose oil? Do you have to top up in between
oil changes?

Don't have specs in front of me, so I can only answer the last question
regarding my Johnson 1996 15 hp 4 stroke (model J15FREDR). It consumes
NO
oil between April and November. Zero. I change it twice during that time
period, and based on memory, that's about twice as often as OMC
recommends.

Ok How much oil do you need for an oil change?

What's the difference? :-) I mean, are you collecting this information in
order to make a purchase decision? Or, what?

Matt is a spy for Halliburton.

Later,

Tom
-----------
"Angling may be said to be so
like the mathematics that it
can never be fully learnt..."

Izaak Walton "The Compleat Angler", 1653

"K. Smith" wrote in message ...
Matt Lang wrote:

Save you do huge hours per season I doubt a 4 stroke would "use" less
oil than one of the new epa compliant 2 strokes but you might also consider;

I will create some charts and post ... Besides the ETEC they all use
lots of oil . My optimax runs at 50:1 - 60:1


(i) The 4 stroke doesn't put oil out into the air or the water, it gets
"changed". Hopefully the used oil gets disposed of correctly, here
that's mostly take it to a garage for their recycle tanks.

Yes true ... this time however cost is the only objective

I am unsure which is worse: 2 stroke oil burnt or 4 stroke oil in the
landfills in form of oily rags and filters which most people dont
dispose properly (assuming they recycle the actual oil)


(ii) You should at least once a season clean out the oil reservoir on
the 2 strokes (new or old type), the oil in a vented tank absorbs
moisture which creates a sludge in the bottom of the tank.

Yikes! I didnt know that ... how is that done? flush it with oil?


(iii) The "new" 2 strokes use or at least recommend special dealer only
oils; can be expensive.

They ARE very expensive. Although you can run an optimax on the
(relatively) cheap oil it is STRONGLY not recommended ....

Thanks for your good input!

Matt

What's the difference? :-) I mean, are you collecting this information in
order to make a purchase decision? Or, what?

Matt is a spy for Halliburton.

Later,

Tom


Dont tell them! Not everybody needs to know

Ok How much oil do you need for an oil change?

Matt

What's the difference? :-) I mean, are you collecting this information in
order to make a purchase decision? Or, what?

I have 200 HP 2 stroke and just want to feel better by knowing how
much oil a 4stroke uses

Matt

Look here for a chart 2 stroke vs. 4 stroke

http://img56.exs.cx/img56/2093/oil.jpg

On 19 Nov 2004 20:58:36 -0800, (Matt Lang) wrote:


Ok How much oil do you need for an oil change?

Matt

What's the difference? :-) I mean, are you collecting this information in
order to make a purchase decision? Or, what?

I have 200 HP 2 stroke and just want to feel better by knowing how
much oil a 4stroke uses

Stick with the two stroke.

TWO STROKES RULE!!!!

Look here for a chart 2 stroke vs. 4 stroke

http://img56.exs.cx/img56/2093/oil.jpg

I know I'm kind of slow, but what exactly is that chart supposed to
illustrate?

Later,

Tom

Matt Lang wrote:
Ok How much oil do you need for an oil change?

Matt

What's the difference? :-) I mean, are you collecting this information in
order to make a purchase decision? Or, what?


I have 200 HP 2 stroke and just want to feel better by knowing how
much oil a 4stroke uses

Matt

Look here for a chart 2 stroke vs. 4 stroke

http://img56.exs.cx/img56/2093/oil.jpg


Had a look at the chart, what's the issue???

It confirms that the modern 2 strokes use less oil than the older ones,
but this is an allusion really when you take into account the extra
costs & while the dealers won't admit it you "should" clean the holding
tank every year. Once in there oil subject to heat & moisture
deteriorates into sludge with even the smallest amounts of water.

Again "all" the oil in a 2 stroke (by your graph the same or more than
a 4 stroke) still goes somewhere, either burnt or out the exhaust as raw
oil, I accept what you say about oily rags etc but we're talking the
entirety of the oil, not just sundry cleanup wipes.

There is another issue with the dfi 2 strokes & their oil, it's related
to raw oil injected into the crankcase, the oil builds up till excess is
"transferred", it either then gets burnt or goes straight through the
exhaust as raw oil. The system injects very small amounts at idle or
even low revs, however the oil is subject to considerable heat buildup,
unlike 4 strokes oil or even an old tech 2 stroke when it was diluted
with fuel & traveled through the engine relatively quickly. This is why
they've promoted special oils, because the oil can get hot enough to
bake behind the rings & it's all down hill from there.

Harry is a liar & has never actually owned a boat much less an optimax
engine. As for his old "hundreds of hours" lie, when he fabricated that
phantom boat in 98 he claimed here after a few mths use he had 200 hours
on it, it's just more evidence of a total lie.

K

Harry Krause wrote:
K. Smith wrote:



Had a look at the chart, what's the issue???

It confirms that the modern 2 strokes use less oil than the older ones,
but this is an allusion really when you take into account the extra
costs & while the dealers won't admit it you "should" clean the holding
tank every year.



An allusion, eh? An allusion is a pun. And how about providing some
legitimate cites that indicate modern two stroke oil tanks need to be
cleaned every year. Cites from manufacturers, refineries, et cetera. Not
your illusional bull.

I don't need any; my "bull" about these experimental engines has be
spot on since they were released, we said they'd fail & they did, but
most importantly we explained why & all actions by the spruikers still
trying to sell them have confirmed us as correct (NB "us/we" I've never
claimed & still don't that this is my personal work, my "blokes" include
some clever engineers & we have some local knowledge of orbital)

One of the defects in all the oil injection 2 stroke systems is the
fact the oil can sit in a vented tank for season after season,
particularly in cold climates this is lunacy, always has been even pre
dfi, of course if they admit it then their oil usage spruiking line goes
in the bin with the unused oil:-) So gee it's only a small risk & after
all we can blame the customer, or the oil or walmart:-).

Even a 4 stroke nobody would say oil can last years in the sump even if
you don't use the engine, it will absorb moisture.

I'm proud there are no "cites" about the defects in the DFIs, because I
copped endless abuse from you & the dealers when I warned you years in
advance exactly what was going to happen. Of course you defenders all
had vested motives, the dealers?? turns out despite their lies they were
getting up to 30% "rebates" to keep flogging known defective motors &
you?? you work for a union investment fund who was in bed with Soros, so
you helped to rip off not just boaters, but thousands of genuine workers
who were reliant upon their pensions.


Once in there oil subject to heat & moisture

deteriorates into sludge with even the smallest amounts of water.


This from a woman who has never even seen a modern two stroke outboard?

Hmm you wish:-) You post any cite from anywhere that predates mine in
this newsgroup warning they would fail & importantly explaining why.



There is another issue with the dfi 2 strokes & their oil, it's related
to raw oil injected into the crankcase, the oil builds up till excess is
"transferred", it either then gets burnt or goes straight through the
exhaust as raw oil. The system injects very small amounts at idle or
even low revs, however the oil is subject to considerable heat buildup,
unlike 4 strokes oil or even an old tech 2 stroke when it was diluted
with fuel & traveled through the engine relatively quickly. This is why
they've promoted special oils, because the oil can get hot enough to
bake behind the rings & it's all down hill from there.



Ahhh...the manufacturers suggest using special oils to avoid a problem.
How clever of them, eh?

Well it's confirmation that exactly what we warned of from the
beginning is true, just as the latest attempts with "special" alloy in
the pistons?? this is a hoot!!! & now a "sensor" (read knock sensor:-))
to sense "abnormal combustion" the standard euphemism for detonation:-)

Yes they've taken 7 yrs to confirm that they now accept the nature of
the problem, the problem they denied year after year even existed!!!
even as huge Cos went broke on account of it.

Trouble is it still won't work!!! they're trying to treat the symptom
by making the oil higher temp tolerant, the pistons so they won't melt
till a higher temp & the injection so it can try to "adjust" to the
detonation.

However the root cause remains; at power overly lean, poorly atomised
mixtures are unreliable & will lead to an engine failure rate too high
for consumer usage, sure not ever single engine just the odd one here &
there is plenty.

They admitted to 1 in 5 but 1 in 100 is still too high, imagine if 1 in
100 ford engines failed:-). Just to be absolutely sure they get a high
failure rate they've added crazy continuous fire ignition & a marginal
lubrication system.

Seems the big engine manufacturers were right to reject Ficht & orbital
as amateurs, at least merc have seen the light & will be rid of them,
not soon enough but still. As for the latest get rich quick mob using
consumers as engine test dummies?? well you've heard it here first....
again:-)



Harry is a liar & has never actually owned a boat much less an optimax
engine. As for his old "hundreds of hours" lie, when he fabricated that
phantom boat in 98 he claimed here after a few mths use he had 200 hours
on it, it's just more evidence of a total lie.

K


Ms. Smith, I know you're hurting, and hurting badly, but nature does
take its toll, and you'll just have to drop your prices. I don't think
the foreign sailors coming into your home port will cough up the two
bits you used to charge...

Thanks Krause a bit of that sort of abuse certainly confirms your lies,
which you just keep telling.

Now please have yet another go at setting your killfile so you don't
keep answering me, I'm happy with that. If you don't know how to do it
properly just email mail me as above but at tpg com au & I'll gladly
assist .

K

"Matt Lang" wrote in message
om...

Ok How much oil do you need for an oil change?

Matt

What's the difference? :-) I mean, are you collecting this information
in
order to make a purchase decision? Or, what?

I have 200 HP 2 stroke and just want to feel better by knowing how
much oil a 4stroke uses

That makes no sense at all. :-) Once you know, are you going to replace your
2-stroke?

"K. Smith" wrote in message
...

Harry is a liar & has never actually owned a boat much less an optimax
engine. As for his old "hundreds of hours" lie, when he fabricated that
phantom boat in 98 he claimed here after a few mths use he had 200 hours
on it, it's just more evidence of a total lie.

K, you really need to stop blowing kangaroos as a hobby.