"Matt Lang" wrote
I have 200 HP 2 stroke and just want to feel better
by knowing how much oil a 4stroke uses

The quantity of oil needed to operate a modern oil-injected 2 stroke engine
is pretty darn similar to that needed to operate an equivalent 4 stroke.
There.
Feel better?

Stick with the two stroke.

TWO STROKES RULE!!!!

Dont have to tell me, I have 200 s troke HP powering my boat

Look here for a chart 2 stroke vs. 4 stroke

http://img56.exs.cx/img56/2093/oil.jpg

I know I'm kind of slow, but what exactly is that chart supposed to
illustrate?

it shows that if you use your motor very little (which you shouldnt!)
you will have used less oil with the 2 stroke as you had with the 4
stroke.

It also shows that about 55h run time a 2 stroke will use AS MUCH oil
as a 4 stroke NOT MORE. This is based on 200 HP Merc optimax vs 200
HP Merc verado and a few other assumptions.

It shows a (who makes them now?) ETect which uses almost under all
circumstances less oil as a 4 stroke.

This is all based at 4250 ROM average and does not show anything else
like environmental or cost issues.

I looked into this to find out if I have to feel sorry for buying a 2
stroke and burning ****loads of oil or if there is little difference.

I am happy with my decission to get the DFI

Matt

http://img56.exs.cx/img56/2093/oil.jpg


There is something seriously flawed with this chart. To start with they are
changing ooil at 50 hours. My merc says 100 hours.
The other thing is are they really saying a 200 hp 2s engine can run 100 hours
on 20 quarts of oil? That's 5 gallons and even at 100:1 that is only 5 gallons
of fuel per hour. Are these hours being put on at idle speed? I know a lot of
guys with 200s and they would kill to get 5 GPH at any decent cruise speed. I
also think these motors use more like 50:1 at high speed. The 100:1 is at idle.
I have a neighbor with an Optimax. I will ask him how long a gallon of oil
lasts him. I know I gave him 2 gallons when I bought my 4 stroke and he didn't
act like it was a lifetime supply.

Had a look at the chart, what's the issue???

No issue, i just wanted to see how much oil the 2 stroke actually
used. The benchmark is a 4 stroke motor which is usually is not known
as "uses oil".

I didnt want to fel bad ripping around burning loads of oil, thus I
want to see how much i am useing compared to if I had bought a 4
stroke. The boat and the other motorized toys are getting winterized
(( So I have lots of time on my hand for these kind of questions


It confirms that the modern 2 strokes use less oil than the older ones,
but this is an allusion really when you take into account the extra

No, actually it doeasnt, unless you consider the optimax old desogn.
The optimax is an older design and the first generation DFI. Lets see
to how many generations they will actually make it ...

The chart shows Merc Optimax, Whoevers (Bombardier?) ETec, and Mercs 4
stroke Verado. The oldest design there is the optimax. All of the
above use less oil as a conventional 2 stroke.


costs & while the dealers won't admit it you "should" clean the holding
tank every year. Once in there oil subject to heat & moisture
deteriorates into sludge with even the smallest amounts of water.

This is a very good point which I will investigate right away in order
to keep my motor happy This flushing procedure can be done with
cheap oil or maybe other suitable substances. Do you have any
procedure or recommendation?
In the end it may be cheaper to buy a new oil tank? This needs to be
looked into.

Again "all" the oil in a 2 stroke (by your graph the same or more than
a 4 stroke) still goes somewhere, either burnt or out the exhaust as raw
oil, I accept what you say about oily rags etc but we're talking the
entirety of the oil, not just sundry cleanup wipes.

Yes correct. This point was not looked at in my comaprison and was not
intended to be looked at. It is a very important and valid point
though. Someone needs to create an eco balance to see whats worse in
the end. If 4 stroke oil is recycled then thats best. If its done
like some people I know do by not recycling or just recycling the oil
but not the filter and rags then it maybe worse than the 2 stroke just
burning it up.


There is another issue with the dfi 2 strokes & their oil, it's related
to raw oil injected into the crankcase, the oil builds up till excess is
"transferred", it either then gets burnt or goes straight through the
exhaust as raw oil.

I see no serious issue. Exactly that happens with conventional 2
strokes ... of course in general its not good that 2 strokes burn oil
....

The system injects very small amounts at idle or
even low revs, however the oil is subject to considerable heat buildup,
unlike 4 strokes oil or even an old tech 2 stroke when it was diluted
with fuel & traveled through the engine relatively quickly. This is why
they've promoted special oils, because the oil can get hot enough to
bake behind the rings & it's all down hill from there.

Yes the DFI motors need the expensive oil. I only know the optimax
and it partly recycles its oil, which is good but this requires
different oil then the normal 2 stroke uses which is bad, as the
recirculated oil must be made so it doesnt break down from it
(expensive).


Harry is a liar & has never actually owned a boat much less an optimax
engine. As for his old "hundreds of hours" lie, when he fabricated that
phantom boat in 98 he claimed here after a few mths use he had 200 hours
on it, it's just more evidence of a total lie.

Its not for me to judge that. I can not see a reason that would make
people claim they have owned certain boats and motors which they
actually havent. But to each their own.

Karen, I appreciate the discussion with you and the points you bring
in! You seem to be more knowledgable about the subject as ... lets say
.... the average female (and in fact male)... Dont take this wrong,
this isnt sexist talk!

Whats your background and your background with motors if I may ask?

You are also welcome to email me. My email as posted is real.

Matt

On 21 Nov 2004 04:49:52 GMT, (Greg) wrote:

http://img56.exs.cx/img56/2093/oil.jpg


There is something seriously flawed with this chart. To start with they are
changing ooil at 50 hours. My merc says 100 hours.
The other thing is are they really saying a 200 hp 2s engine can run 100 hours
on 20 quarts of oil? That's 5 gallons and even at 100:1 that is only 5 gallons
of fuel per hour. Are these hours being put on at idle speed? I know a lot of
guys with 200s and they would kill to get 5 GPH at any decent cruise speed. I
also think these motors use more like 50:1 at high speed. The 100:1 is at idle.
I have a neighbor with an Optimax. I will ask him how long a gallon of oil
lasts him. I know I gave him 2 gallons when I bought my 4 stroke and he didn't
act like it was a lifetime supply.

My Contender, at cruise with FICHT 225s, uses about 8 Gph per engine
averaged after the trip which accounts for idle time. I rarely run
WOT. At idle or trolling speeds, 5 Gph isn't unheard of.

My Ranger which has a FICHT 200 gets 5 Gph all round - it has never
varied from day one.

Later,

Tom

On 20 Nov 2004 19:20:52 -0800, (Matt Lang) wrote:


Stick with the two stroke.

TWO STROKES RULE!!!!

Dont have to tell me, I have 200 s troke HP powering my boat

Look here for a chart 2 stroke vs. 4 stroke

http://img56.exs.cx/img56/2093/oil.jpg

I know I'm kind of slow, but what exactly is that chart supposed to
illustrate?

it shows that if you use your motor very little (which you shouldnt!)
you will have used less oil with the 2 stroke as you had with the 4
stroke.

It also shows that about 55h run time a 2 stroke will use AS MUCH oil
as a 4 stroke NOT MORE. This is based on 200 HP Merc optimax vs 200
HP Merc verado and a few other assumptions.

It shows a (who makes them now?) ETect which uses almost under all
circumstances less oil as a 4 stroke.

This is all based at 4250 ROM average and does not show anything else
like environmental or cost issues.

I looked into this to find out if I have to feel sorry for buying a 2
stroke and burning ****loads of oil or if there is little difference.

I am happy with my decission to get the DFI

Thanks - I wasn't sure that all that was. It was pretty though. :)

I actually had to be talked into my first FICHT on the Ranger, but
ever since, I'm convinced.

Later,

Tom

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 23:36:32 -0800, Matt Lang wrote:

Again "all" the oil in a 2 stroke (by your graph the same or more than
a 4 stroke) still goes somewhere, either burnt or out the exhaust as raw
oil, I accept what you say about oily rags etc but we're talking the
entirety of the oil, not just sundry cleanup wipes.

Yes correct. This point was not looked at in my comaprison and was not
intended to be looked at. It is a very important and valid point
though. Someone needs to create an eco balance to see whats worse in
the end. If 4 stroke oil is recycled then thats best. If its done
like some people I know do by not recycling or just recycling the oil
but not the filter and rags then it maybe worse than the 2 stroke just
burning it up.


This is the Major Issue with me, and why I went 4-stoke. I can recycle the
crankcase oil when I change it, not spew it out into my favourite pristine
lake.

Also, my "ultralight" Merc 9.9 uses just under 1 litre of oil in the
crankcase.

Lloyd Sumpter
"The Tin Boat" Mirrocraft 12

(Greg) wrote in message ...
http://img56.exs.cx/img56/2093/oil.jpg


There is something seriously flawed with this chart. To start with they are
changing ooil at 50 hours. My merc says 100 hours.

I didnt know that .. that would indeed offset this a little ...

The other thing is are they really saying a 200 hp 2s engine can run 100 hours
on 20 quarts of oil? That's 5 gallons and even at 100:1 that is only 5 gallons
of fuel per hour. Are these hours being put on at idle speed? I know a lot of

The 2 stroke is posted at 4250 RPM and my 200 HP 2 stroke gets 5.8 MPG
at cruise. The oils is based on that and an average of 65:1

guys with 200s and they would kill to get 5 GPH at any decent cruise speed. I
also think these motors use more like 50:1 at high speed. The 100:1 is at idle.

I get 4.8 US gallon per hour at cruise at 28 MPH ... 200 2 stroke HP !

I have a neighbor with an Optimax. I will ask him how long a gallon of oil
lasts him. I know I gave him 2 gallons when I bought my 4 stroke and he didn't
act like it was a lifetime supply.

Mine uses .3l per hour at cruise ... whu knows how many gallosn this
are.

Dont forget this chart isnt religion, I just put it together for
myself to see how bad the oil use really is.. Take it for that and not
more.

Matt

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in message . ..
On 20 Nov 2004 19:20:52 -0800, (Matt Lang) wrote:


Stick with the two stroke.

TWO STROKES RULE!!!!

Dont have to tell me, I have 200 s troke HP powering my boat

Look here for a chart 2 stroke vs. 4 stroke

http://img56.exs.cx/img56/2093/oil.jpg

I know I'm kind of slow, but what exactly is that chart supposed to
illustrate?

it shows that if you use your motor very little (which you shouldnt!)
you will have used less oil with the 2 stroke as you had with the 4
stroke.

It also shows that about 55h run time a 2 stroke will use AS MUCH oil
as a 4 stroke NOT MORE. This is based on 200 HP Merc optimax vs 200
HP Merc verado and a few other assumptions.

It shows a (who makes them now?) ETect which uses almost under all
circumstances less oil as a 4 stroke.

This is all based at 4250 ROM average and does not show anything else
like environmental or cost issues.

I looked into this to find out if I have to feel sorry for buying a 2
stroke and burning ****loads of oil or if there is little difference.

I am happy with my decission to get the DFI

Thanks - I wasn't sure that all that was. It was pretty though. :)

yes it is .. its not to be overrrated


I actually had to be talked into my first FICHT on the Ranger, but
ever since, I'm convinced.

FICHT's had many problems but the now ETecs seem to be very
interesting motors to say the least! I hope Merc and Yamaha will try
to top them.

I am glad that your FICHTS work well

Matt

Lloyd Sumpter wrote in message .. .
On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 23:36:32 -0800, Matt Lang wrote:

Again "all" the oil in a 2 stroke (by your graph the same or more than
a 4 stroke) still goes somewhere, either burnt or out the exhaust as raw
oil, I accept what you say about oily rags etc but we're talking the
entirety of the oil, not just sundry cleanup wipes.

Yes correct. This point was not looked at in my comaprison and was not
intended to be looked at. It is a very important and valid point
though. Someone needs to create an eco balance to see whats worse in
the end. If 4 stroke oil is recycled then thats best. If its done
like some people I know do by not recycling or just recycling the oil
but not the filter and rags then it maybe worse than the 2 stroke just
burning it up.


This is the Major Issue with me, and why I went 4-stoke. I can recycle the
crankcase oil when I change it, not spew it out into my favourite pristine
lake.

Also, my "ultralight" Merc 9.9 uses just under 1 litre of oil in the
crankcase.

Lloyd Sumpter
"The Tin Boat" Mirrocraft 12


Yes thats a point. However apparently 2 stroke oil buns up and
shouldnt be as harmful as unburnt oil.... I would like to see real
data about that.

Matt