No. When you were 7 or 8 years old in the fifties you were able to grasp
the rudiments of a simplistic explanation. Apparently, you haven't given
the matter much observation or thought since.

You may think you live in an "overwhelmingly Christian nation." Even if you do,
one of the reasons generations of immigrants came to this country was a freedom
to practice the religion of their choice. Forcing kids to recite a "Christian
prayer" at the beginning of a school day has no place in a school that exists
to serve the interests of all students. Why should devout Jewish families pay
taxes to support public schools where their kids will be compelled, (at a
minimum through peer pressure), to pray to Jesus, or Virgin Mary, and/or a host
of Christian saints? Are Buddhist, Muslim, Wiccan, or Hindu taxpayers less
entitled to respect for their beliefs in the education system than Christian
taxpayers? Should we give the non-Christian taxpayers a discount, if we ask the
kids to recite a Christian prayer at the beginning of a school day?

Is it the proper role of the public schools to teach the children of atheists
that their parents are "wrong"?

Many of our ancestors came to this country because they found being forced to
worship God in a manner dictated by the numerical majority in a society, rather
than by faith and sincere conscious, unacceptable.

It is just as unacceptable in 21st Century America as it was in 18th Century
Britain.

Did you kid ever come to you and say, "But, Dad, most of the other kids are
doing....(insert stupid thing here)..."?

Your answer then still applies. "Just because a majority does something, that
does not make it right."

You want your kids to recite a Christian prayer at the beginning of a school
day?
There are dozens of schools just like that in most communities- they aren't
supported by tax dollars nor should they be.

On 08 Nov 2004 03:29:38 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

You want your kids to recite a Christian prayer at the beginning of a school
day?
There are dozens of schools just like that in most communities- they aren't
supported by tax dollars nor should they be.

=========================================

Unfortunately the prevailing view of the so called christian right is
that anyone of a different belief is a pagan at best, and should be
converted if possible that their soul may be saved. It's hard to hold
a reasonable discussion with someone of that belief system, and it's
ironic to me that it fosters the same kind of intolerance that the
hard line Islamic's are known for.

Wayne,
I was reading this book about early North American exploration. It said
that the a portion of the French priests that came over to convert the
Native Americans did so with the belief that they were the lost tribe of
Israel. They believed that when all the natives (they didn't have a clue
what "all" entailed) were converted the three riders of the apocalypse would
be unleashed, The scary part was they were reverently working towards that
goal.
Paul

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On 08 Nov 2004 03:29:38 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

You want your kids to recite a Christian prayer at the beginning of a
school
day?
There are dozens of schools just like that in most communities- they
aren't
supported by tax dollars nor should they be.

=========================================

Unfortunately the prevailing view of the so called christian right is
that anyone of a different belief is a pagan at best, and should be
converted if possible that their soul may be saved. It's hard to hold
a reasonable discussion with someone of that belief system, and it's
ironic to me that it fosters the same kind of intolerance that the
hard line Islamic's are known for.

I was reading this book about early North American exploration. It said
that the a portion of the French priests that came over to convert the
Native Americans did so with the belief that they were the lost tribe of
Israel.

Could have been. The indigenous population of the Americas resulted from a
mixture of people from various parts of the world for many hundreds, if not
thousands,
of years before the Columbian expeditions.

The original missionary priests in the Mississippi vallley reported discovering
native tribes with blue and hazel eyes, and fair skin. In New England, three
British missionaries were about to be burned at the stake. Two were English,
the third had
grown up speaking Welsh as a child. As the Native Americans were geting ready
to
light off the pyres, the Welsh missionary began calling out to God in his
childhood language. Many of the words were so similar to the language used by
the tribe that had captured these missionaries that some of the captors
understood that he was calling out, in a dialect of *their own language* to a
powerful spirit for help. The missionaries were released unharmed, as a result
of this amazing "sign".

There are literally scores of similar accounts, those are the two I remember
most easily.

On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 17:09:34 +0000, Gould 0738 wrote:


Could have been. The indigenous population of the Americas resulted from a
mixture of people from various parts of the world for many hundreds, if
not thousands,
of years before the Columbian expeditions.

You bet. Discoveries of Kennewick Man and the Spirit Cave Mummy show us
how much we don't know.

http://www.mnh.si.edu/arctic/html/kennewick_man.html

http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story....7&nav=168XKCXa

On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 09:18:41 -0500, "Paul Schilter"
paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote:

Wayne,
I was reading this book about early North American exploration. It said
that the a portion of the French priests that came over to convert the
Native Americans did so with the belief that they were the lost tribe of
Israel. They believed that when all the natives (they didn't have a clue
what "all" entailed) were converted the three riders of the apocalypse would
be unleashed, The scary part was they were reverently working towards that
goal.
Paul

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
.. .
On 08 Nov 2004 03:29:38 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

You want your kids to recite a Christian prayer at the beginning of a
school
day?
There are dozens of schools just like that in most communities- they
aren't
supported by tax dollars nor should they be.

=========================================

Unfortunately the prevailing view of the so called christian right is
that anyone of a different belief is a pagan at best, and should be
converted if possible that their soul may be saved. It's hard to hold
a reasonable discussion with someone of that belief system, and it's
ironic to me that it fosters the same kind of intolerance that the
hard line Islamic's are known for.

Issac Asimov (I think - can't remember - or the name of the story at
the moment) who wrote a story about Tibetan Monks spinning prayer
wheels. Their belief, of course, is that when all the prayers are
said, the end of the world occurs.

So the monks purchased several mainframe computers to say the prayers
and when the computers were switched on, the technicians leaving the
monastery started to notice that the stars were going out. :)

I don't do the story justice, but it was a great story.

Later,

Tom

On 08 Nov 2004 03:29:38 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

No. When you were 7 or 8 years old in the fifties you were able to grasp
the rudiments of a simplistic explanation. Apparently, you haven't given
the matter much observation or thought since.

You may think you live in an "overwhelmingly Christian nation." Even if you do,
one of the reasons generations of immigrants came to this country was a freedom
to practice the religion of their choice. Forcing kids to recite a "Christian
prayer" at the beginning of a school day has no place in a school that exists
to serve the interests of all students. Why should devout Jewish families pay
taxes to support public schools where their kids will be compelled, (at a
minimum through peer pressure), to pray to Jesus, or Virgin Mary, and/or a host
of Christian saints? Are Buddhist, Muslim, Wiccan, or Hindu taxpayers less
entitled to respect for their beliefs in the education system than Christian
taxpayers? Should we give the non-Christian taxpayers a discount, if we ask the
kids to recite a Christian prayer at the beginning of a school day?

Is it the proper role of the public schools to teach the children of atheists
that their parents are "wrong"?

Many of our ancestors came to this country because they found being forced to
worship God in a manner dictated by the numerical majority in a society, rather
than by faith and sincere conscious, unacceptable.

It is just as unacceptable in 21st Century America as it was in 18th Century
Britain.

Did you kid ever come to you and say, "But, Dad, most of the other kids are
doing....(insert stupid thing here)..."?

Your answer then still applies. "Just because a majority does something, that
does not make it right."

You want your kids to recite a Christian prayer at the beginning of a school
day?
There are dozens of schools just like that in most communities- they aren't
supported by tax dollars nor should they be.

Agreed - even in the boonies where I live, there are Muslim, Jewish,
Catholic, Evangelical Christian and I believe, although I can't
remember the particular sub-faith, a Wiccan deal.

My kids all went to private school for elementary and public high
schools. The reason was that my wife teaches in the system and it's
not a lot of fun to be the daughter/son of a school teacher.

I don't believe we need school prayer to make things better - seems a
little silly to me. I'd much rather start teaching readin', writin'
and 'rithmetic than all the touchy feely stuff, learn through play
crap they do now. Socialization my butt. Sit down, shut up and
learn. :)

Take care.

Tom

"The beatings will stop when morale improves."
E. Teach, 1717

"Gould 0738" wrote in message

You may think you live in an "overwhelmingly Christian nation." Even if
you do,
one of the reasons generations of immigrants came to this country was a
freedom
to practice the religion of their choice.

On reflection, I will acknowledge a misuse of the word 'Christian' in my
original post, wherein I should have stated simply "...Enough of those who
would prohibit a simple prayer at the start of
the school day...".

The Constitution proscribes the suppression of religion with equal zeal.

"John Gaquin" wrote in message
...

"Gould 0738" wrote in message

You may think you live in an "overwhelmingly Christian nation." Even if
you do,
one of the reasons generations of immigrants came to this country was a
freedom
to practice the religion of their choice.

On reflection, I will acknowledge a misuse of the word 'Christian' in my
original post, wherein I should have stated simply "...Enough of those who
would prohibit a simple prayer at the start of
the school day...".

The Constitution proscribes the suppression of religion with equal zeal.



Fine, but if the tables were turned and Christian kids were told that each
morning, they were to recite something from the Quran, they'd be equally
annoyed. At some point, everyone needs to take personal responsibility for
their bull**** ideas, and stop pointing to bibles and constitutions as an
excuse.

The Constitution proscribes the suppression of religion with equal zeal.



Agreed. You should be able to start any sort of church you like, and nobody
should be compelled to attend it.