NOYB wrote:

Well, apparently you liberals will get your wish. Apparently, the 2nd US
Circuit Court of Appeals has decided that the Patriot Act can't be used to
detain Jose Padilla as an enemy combatant. When the guy starts talking to
his accomplices via his attorney, and the dirty nuke attack eventually
*does* takes place, won't you be glad you got what you wished for?

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20031218/D7VGT6E00.html

The ironic thing is...those who most strongly oppose the Patriot Act live in
or near the large cities that are most likely to be targeted by the
terrorists who will be released by today's ruling. Merry Christmas...

Oh yeah...one more thing...


Don't look directly at the light.







And it is a good thing, too, since the so-called Patriot Act is the most
unAmerican piece of crap perpetrated by the right-wing loonies since Joe
McCarthy.

--
Email sent to is never read.

On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 18:59:07 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

snip
And it is a good thing, too, since the so-called Patriot Act is the most
unAmerican piece of crap perpetrated by the right-wing loonies since Joe
McCarthy.

Harry, just what rights have you lost under the Patriot Act. I've asked you this
before, but you apparently missed the question.

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

JohnH wrote:

On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 18:59:07 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

snip
And it is a good thing, too, since the so-called Patriot Act is the most
unAmerican piece of crap perpetrated by the right-wing loonies since Joe
McCarthy.

Harry, just what rights have you lost under the Patriot Act. I've asked you this
before, but you apparently missed the question.

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

No man is an island, John.
There; it is Donne.

Got it?

When civil liberties are attacked by the US government, we're all under
attack.

The Bush Administration is hell-bent on eroding civil liberties. Perhaps
the courts are finally waking up to the erosions being perpetrated by
the fascists running the Bush Administration.







--
Email sent to is never read.

On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 19:27:18 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

JohnH wrote:

On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 18:59:07 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

snip
And it is a good thing, too, since the so-called Patriot Act is the most
unAmerican piece of crap perpetrated by the right-wing loonies since Joe
McCarthy.

Harry, just what rights have you lost under the Patriot Act. I've asked you this
before, but you apparently missed the question.

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

No man is an island, John.
There; it is Donne.

Got it?

When civil liberties are attacked by the US government, we're all under
attack.

The Bush Administration is hell-bent on eroding civil liberties. Perhaps
the courts are finally waking up to the erosions being perpetrated by
the fascists running the Bush Administration.

Apparently I wasn't clear. What civil liberties have you lost under the Patriot
Act? This is the act that 98 Senators voted for, yes?


John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

Harry doesn't like to answer direct questions...'cause honesty makes him
uncomfortable.

What rights have *you* lost Harry?



"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 19:27:18 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

JohnH wrote:

On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 18:59:07 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

snip
And it is a good thing, too, since the so-called Patriot Act is the
most
unAmerican piece of crap perpetrated by the right-wing loonies since
Joe
McCarthy.

Harry, just what rights have you lost under the Patriot Act. I've asked
you this
before, but you apparently missed the question.

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

No man is an island, John.
There; it is Donne.

Got it?

When civil liberties are attacked by the US government, we're all under
attack.

The Bush Administration is hell-bent on eroding civil liberties. Perhaps
the courts are finally waking up to the erosions being perpetrated by
the fascists running the Bush Administration.

Apparently I wasn't clear. What civil liberties have you lost under the
Patriot
Act? This is the act that 98 Senators voted for, yes?


John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

Apparently I wasn't clear. What civil liberties have you lost under the
Patriot
Act? This is the act that 98 Senators voted for, yes?


John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD


You do a disservice to the right wing when you ask this question, as does NOYB
when he repeats it. It's a stupid question.
I guess the problem is that your talk radio
gurus haven't really addressed this, so as an early Solstice Holiday Gift I
will fill in for them.

The Patriot Act reduces inalienable individual rights guaranteed by the
Constitution of the United States to provisional rights subject to the whim of
the Chief Executive.

Read that paragraph again, slowly, if it didn't register the first time
through.

Merely by uttering the word, "Terrorist" or "Enemy Combatant", under the
Patriot Act, the Executive branch can strip any citizen of the United States of
any and all civil rights. Each citizen of the US is entitled to a full spectrum
of civil rights until *convicted* (not merely accused of) a serious crime.

Under the Patriot Act, there is no appeals process if the Executive Branch
decides to label you a "terrorist" or an "enemy combatant." You are simply
locked up and the key is thrown away.

Now, if you cannot see how having your individual, inalienable rights
guaranteed by the constitution is a better situation than having whatever
politician currently elected POTUS making (possibly politically motivated)
decisions about who is going to be protected under the Bill of Rights and who
is not, then you will surely keep asking your same silly question until hell
freezes over.

Just because the hate mongers on right wing radio pose the rhetorical question,
"What do these liberal, left wing, communist, traitor, Democrat *******s think
they have given up as a result of the Patriot Act"..doesn't mean the question
has any legs at all in the real world.

"Gould 0738" wrote in message

Merely by uttering the word, "Terrorist" or "Enemy Combatant", under the
Patriot Act, the Executive branch can strip any citizen of the United
States of
any and all civil rights. .....


Under the Patriot Act, there is no appeals process if the Executive Branch
decides to label you a "terrorist" or an "enemy combatant." You are simply
locked up and the key is thrown away.


Blatantly overstated and wrong on both counts, Chuck, and the recent
decision by the 2nd Circuit Appellate would seem to support me; would seem
to indicate that our system of checks and balances does, in fact, work;
that we can, in times of national need, tighten down the screws a bit in
particular places as long as we're careful to ensure that the tightened
screw does not pinch where it does not need to.

JG

Blatantly overstated and wrong on both counts, Chuck,

Beyond a declaration by the Justice Department, (reporting to the POTUS),
nothing more is required to lock up an individual indefinitely under the
Patriot Act.

and the recent
decision by the 2nd Circuit Appellate would seem to support me;

Who brought the suit in the 2nd Court?
Surely not the accused- he has had no access to an attorney. When the first
citizen is locked up under the Patriot Act, it's a high profile situation.
Suppose there were 200, 2000, or 20,000? Would somebody step forward to bring
judicial attention to all of the cases of unconstitutional confinement?

that we can, in times of national need, tighten down the screws a bit in
particular places as long as we're careful to ensure that the tightened
screw does not pinch where it does not need to.

the "screwing" cannot effect the rights guaranteed in the Constitution.

What is the right wing always says, "If you don't like it, move to........"?
Gosh, there must be 1000 countries in the world where one doesn't have to put
up with that ridiculous Bill of Rights.

(Gould 0738) wrote in message ...
Apparently I wasn't clear. What civil liberties have you lost under the
Patriot
Act? This is the act that 98 Senators voted for, yes?


John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD


You do a disservice to the right wing when you ask this question, as does NOYB
when he repeats it. It's a stupid question.
I guess the problem is that your talk radio
gurus haven't really addressed this, so as an early Solstice Holiday Gift I
will fill in for them.

The Patriot Act reduces inalienable individual rights guaranteed by the
Constitution of the United States to provisional rights subject to the whim of
the Chief Executive.

Read that paragraph again, slowly, if it didn't register the first time
through.

Merely by uttering the word, "Terrorist" or "Enemy Combatant", under the
Patriot Act, the Executive branch can strip any citizen of the United States of
any and all civil rights. Each citizen of the US is entitled to a full spectrum
of civil rights until *convicted* (not merely accused of) a serious crime.

Under the Patriot Act, there is no appeals process if the Executive Branch
decides to label you a "terrorist" or an "enemy combatant." You are simply
locked up and the key is thrown away.

Now, if you cannot see how having your individual, inalienable rights
guaranteed by the constitution is a better situation than having whatever
politician currently elected POTUS making (possibly politically motivated)
decisions about who is going to be protected under the Bill of Rights and who
is not, then you will surely keep asking your same silly question until hell
freezes over.

Just because the hate mongers on right wing radio pose the rhetorical question,
"What do these liberal, left wing, communist, traitor, Democrat *******s think
they have given up as a result of the Patriot Act"..doesn't mean the question
has any legs at all in the real world.



We should just be satisfied with whatever rights Our President Bush
says we have. After all he knows best doesn't he?

And why do we need rights anyway? If you don't break the law, you
don't need protections of rights anyway.

If we all just behaved we could do away with that pesky constitution.

On 19 Dec 2003 05:17:48 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

Apparently I wasn't clear. What civil liberties have you lost under the
Patriot
Act? This is the act that 98 Senators voted for, yes?


John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD


You do a disservice to the right wing when you ask this question, as does NOYB
when he repeats it. It's a stupid question.
I guess the problem is that your talk radio
gurus haven't really addressed this, so as an early Solstice Holiday Gift I
will fill in for them.

The Patriot Act reduces inalienable individual rights guaranteed by the
Constitution of the United States to provisional rights subject to the whim of
the Chief Executive.

Read that paragraph again, slowly, if it didn't register the first time
through.

Merely by uttering the word, "Terrorist" or "Enemy Combatant", under the
Patriot Act, the Executive branch can strip any citizen of the United States of
any and all civil rights. Each citizen of the US is entitled to a full spectrum
of civil rights until *convicted* (not merely accused of) a serious crime.

Under the Patriot Act, there is no appeals process if the Executive Branch
decides to label you a "terrorist" or an "enemy combatant." You are simply
locked up and the key is thrown away.

Now, if you cannot see how having your individual, inalienable rights
guaranteed by the constitution is a better situation than having whatever
politician currently elected POTUS making (possibly politically motivated)
decisions about who is going to be protected under the Bill of Rights and who
is not, then you will surely keep asking your same silly question until hell
freezes over.

Just because the hate mongers on right wing radio pose the rhetorical question,
"What do these liberal, left wing, communist, traitor, Democrat *******s think
they have given up as a result of the Patriot Act"..doesn't mean the question
has any legs at all in the real world.

No, Chuck. You do a disservice to yourself and others who continue to harangue
and preach things which are not true. I assume, because of your statements, that
you are knowledgeable of the Patriot Act. Well, could you please give us the
title, sub-title, and section number of that portion of the bill which provides
for: "Merely by uttering the word, "Terrorist" or "Enemy Combatant", under the
Patriot Act, the Executive branch can strip any citizen of the United States of
any and all civil rights. Each citizen of the US is entitled to a full spectrum
of civil rights until *convicted* (not merely accused of) a serious crime."

I think you will find no such statement in the entire act. If you like, I will
post the entire act to aid your search. But that shouldn't be necessary. I think
you are simply supporting Harry's claims, which he did not back up either.

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD