Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!
 

Doug Kanter wrote:

"Peter Pan" wrote in message
...


I wonder if that also means 3 to 6 less people in line with
coupons/checks/not enuf money and sending things back etc. I kind of like
em
:)

There are solutions for that, other than machines. One of our local stores
has experimented with a no-nonsense cashier line during the busy late
afternoon hours when people are shopping on the way home from work. Rules:
No coupons, no paper checks, no food stamps, no price questions, no special
problems of any kind. If you disagree with the scanned price, the item's
removed from your order. You can take it to the customer service desk and
deal with it. And, cash only. Green cash money.

On a typical day, the line of customers was almost 100% men. No old ladies
ready to do battle with the current newspaper circular in their hands. I'm
not sure why the store stopped the experiment, although I suspect it was
because the scan error rate is already pretty much zero.

Contrast this with an interesting experience I had at WM one night around 11
PM. Two cashiers open, and I was #2 in line. Ahead of me, 4 women were
buying a huge load of groceries. One tried to pay with plastic, but it
wasn't approved. She opened her purse and pulled out a 3" thick stack of
credit cards held together with a rubber band. After trying 5-6 of them, one
of her friends began doing the same. All four women tried various cards, to
no avail. Some of the cards had just a few dollars on them, which surprised
the women as if they didn't own the cards and had no knowledge as to the
status of the accounts.

The line behind me had grown to about a dozen customers, as had the line at
the other cashier. Meanwhile, a guy paced back and forth watching the scene
and doing nothing. He turned out to be the manager, as I found out when I
suggested to the cashier that she call the manager. He wandered over,
looking disinterested. I suggested that he might want to open a 3rd register
himself because the lines were now so long that they reached back into the
merchandise aisles. His response: "Managers aren't supposed to operate the
registers". I walked away from my cart, leaving it in front of him. When I
drove by the entrance, the four credit card thieves were leaving without
their groceries.

A real store would've moved those women out of the line, and perhaps even
called the police. Not WM, though. As far as they're concerned, their
customers' time is worthless.


You can't put the blame on that type of behavior squarely on the
shoulders of Wal-Mart exclusively. Many other department stores work in
the same way. Any time you have a store which attracts a clientele which
is not "bloomingdales" quality, you employ people at or near minimum
wage, and do not offer line managers any incentive to do any more than
babysit the employees, you will get this sort of situation. I've been in
similar situations (I always end up picking the worst line) in grocery
stores as well as department stores.

Dave

Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!
 

What do you do with
people who don't have enough skills to command jobs that 'pay a living
wage'?

There are a few "don't do's".....

High on the list would be "don't threaten your powerless mini-wage employee
with termination if he or she is unwilling to go clock out and then return to
work for a few 'free' hours." WalMart has been fined and penalized in scores
of cases for this exact
practice.

On the clock work: Mini-wage but legal.
Off the clock work: Slavery. Outlawed 140 years ago.

Every person is entitled to compensation for honest labor. If we can't agree on
that basic premise, there is no hope for any additional discussion.

Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!
 

Good, does that mean this discussion is over?


"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
What do you do with
people who don't have enough skills to command jobs that 'pay a living
wage'?

There are a few "don't do's".....

High on the list would be "don't threaten your powerless mini-wage
employee
with termination if he or she is unwilling to go clock out and then return
to
work for a few 'free' hours." WalMart has been fined and penalized in
scores
of cases for this exact
practice.

On the clock work: Mini-wage but legal.
Off the clock work: Slavery. Outlawed 140 years ago.

Every person is entitled to compensation for honest labor. If we can't
agree on
that basic premise, there is no hope for any additional discussion.

Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!
 

"Jack Cassidy" wrote in message
om...


A real store would've moved those women out of the line, and perhaps
even
called the police. Not WM, though. As far as they're concerned, their
customers' time is worthless.

I see, the customer screws up and that is the stores fault. Granted the
manager should have opened another register if possible. (they would have
at
the W-Ms around here) The people that work at Wal-Mart as well as all of
the
other stores are just people, subject to the same weaknesses and strengths
as everyone else, they sometimes make mistakes in judgment.
Why do some people get $200.00 worth of groceries when they only have
$50.00
on them, and then pick and choose the things to be put back while the
cashier has to void out each item?
Jack Cassidy


When there are 15-20 registers open, one can expect the manager to have
difficulty seeing a problem at one of them. When there are only 2 adjacent
registers open and the manager stands there staring for 10 minutes and
noticing nothing, he is a fool and his company is at fault if his
supervisors haven't noticed that he is a fool.

It's really not so difficult to do the right thing.

Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!
 

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...


A real store would've moved those women out of the line, and perhaps
even
called the police. Not WM, though. As far as they're concerned, their
customers' time is worthless.


You can't put the blame on that type of behavior squarely on the
shoulders of Wal-Mart exclusively. Many other department stores work in
the same way. Any time you have a store which attracts a clientele which
is not "bloomingdales" quality, you employ people at or near minimum
wage, and do not offer line managers any incentive to do any more than
babysit the employees, you will get this sort of situation. I've been in
similar situations (I always end up picking the worst line) in grocery
stores as well as department stores.

Dave



I have, too. In the "other" store I shop at, the cashier's blinking light
would've gone on and a manager or security person would've been there in 30
seconds. Not Wal Mart, though.

Something else interesting about the WM near me: You know how you hear a
gentle beep from some cash registers each time an item is dragged across the
scanner? At WM, they've connected that to the public address system at the
front. Unbelievably loud and annoying. WTF? This is supposed to make the
place sound interesting?

Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!
 

Jonathan Ball wrote:

jps wrote:

Bull****, they collect tolls off of blood money.

Prove it.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_02/06.27H.swiss.pay.htm

Also:

IOM is one of the implementing organizations of the Swiss Banks
Settlement, an agreement reached between Holocaust survivors and Swiss
banks
in 1999 that resulted from litigation before the United States District
Court for the Eastern District of New York. The US$ 1.25 billion
Settlement
Fund serves to compensate for deposits in Swiss banks owned by
Holocaust victims that were never returned to them or their heirs, and
to pay
compensation for former slave labourers and certain other victims of
the Nazi regime.

IOM pays compensation to Roma, Jehovah's Witnesses, homosexuals, and
handicapped persons who were persecuted by the Nazi regime and
performed slave labour for German companies (Slave Labour Class I), and
to those persons who were either denied entry into Switzerland or
admitted but mistreated there as refugees (Refugee Class). IOM also
pays compensation to Jewish and non-Jewish victims of Nazi persecution
who performed slave labour for certain Swiss companies (Slave Labour
Class II). As of the expiration of the filing deadline on 31 December
2001, IOM had received a total of 22,910 claims: 11,960 for Slave
Labour Class I, 10,751 for Slave Labour Class II and 199 Refugee Class
claims.

Also:

Swiss banks
were accused of
hanging on to
accounts
belonging to
Holocaust
victims.

As the historians
dug deeper, it
was revealed that
Switzerland had sent thousands of
Jewish refugees back to
Nazi-occupied Europe, and that
Swiss companies had traded with
the Germans.

The fund was set up and received
contributions from Swiss banks and
Swiss businesses.

The government said it was a
gesture of solidarity, and should not
be seen as compensation.

Nevertheless, the controversy
marked a change in Switzerland's
perception of its wartime history,
and raised questions among the
Swiss population over how ethical
its neutrality really was.

The fund will now be wound up.

But the separate and much larger
settlement of $1.25bn which was
agreed between lawyers acting for
holocaust survivors and for two
major Swiss banks has still to be
paid out.

I think that is sufficient proof that the claim was accurate.
LZ

Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!
 

Adios, amigos!
LZ

K Smith wrote:

jps wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 10:29:42 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:


Their employees are almost free...

They're totally free. Free to take the job, or turn it down.

Bob



That's part of the problem. They're offering so little the only ones
willing to step up are either the painfully impoverished or illegal
immigrants whose pay in dollars eclipses what they can earn at home.

So here's the lefties again wanting "protection" from competition, damn
even from each other!!!! I guess they're so dumb they have plenty to
fear from the genuinely poor not dumb who are willing to start somewhere
to better themselves in the future & have they have their own "we're in
charge" positions to protect.


Walmart won't pay a living wage.

So don't work there anymore jps, I mean they obviously let you play on
the computer all day so it can't be that bad:-)

That's not letting market forces
determine the price paid for labor.

Of course it is, why should "labour" be any different to any other
business input??? Good quality anything will always command a higher
price being paid for it & labour is a classic example, oops now I see
your problem, you want totally uneducated people like yourself, with no
drive or enthusiasm, who want to just serve customers here & there but
mostly just stand around chatting all day, you want the same career
prospects as someone who gets off their arse & actually tries to make a
good life for themselves.

Yes clearly I can see why "you" need protecting from those people,
after all they'll eat your god given right to be a bludger every time.

It's skirting the labor market at
the same time they play very aggressively in driving manufacturer's
prices down.

On the consumers' behalf!!! & they pass this on to you in lower prices,
that's how they've built a huge retailing enterprise. You can't be this
dumb surely, you're just putting it on???? Or it's just more of that
usual left wing envy??? Yeah sure jps you could have done that..... I
don't think so you need help all the time so much so you now "demand"
you be protected from those who will work.

You can dislike them all you like, never shop there as you want or even
just buy their very dear lines if it suits you, but because they try so
hard you should be on your knees thanking them for making those choices
available to you.

It's not fair to use market forces on the purchasing side of the
equation while screwing labor on the other.

It's all "fair" & the laws that govern monopolies & business behaviour
etc are in place, so unless you can point to a statute being broken it's
fair, indeed is terrific!!!

I guess you want everybody here "forced" to buy defective Ficht OBs???
dear dear dear you even have a Marxist in tow now, shameful.

K

Here's some of Harry's lies for you, just to bring back old
memories:-)

Here's just some of his prior lies (in his own words pasted);

I sold off nearly $3,000,000 in new motors and boats, depressing
the new boat
industry in southern Connecticut for an entire season. Everything was
sold...every
cotter pin, every quart of oil, 30 days after I started. For near
full-retail, too.


He had just under $1,000,000 on floor plan with a
syndicate of banks led by National Shawmut of Boston. He had been a
solid customer of that back for more than 20 years and they gave him
great rates.



As far as your other complaints, well, almost every president in my
memory,
and I *remember* Truman, Eisenhower (who cheated on his wife), Kennedy,
Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan and Bush, lied and participated in
deceit to one degree or another, and on issues far more important
than who
was giving them blow jobs.

Good lord. I met *every* president in the damned group except Bush,
and I
worked once for his father.



My father used to pray that the north shore of LI Sound would be hit by
a mild hurricane. No
one injured, no on-shore property damaged, but lots of boats sunk.
Preferably early in July.


We had the Hatteras for two years. Last year, out of the cold clear, a
broker approached me with an offer to buy. Our continued Florida
lifestyle was somewhat up in the air, because the two breadwinners
hereabouts were about to be offered long-term but temporary assignments
they could not refuse in the Washington, D.C., area. So, after being
romanced a little, we sold the Hatt for almost precisely what we paid
for it. Not bad, after two full years of use. And I mean full years. So,
we didn't "make" any money off the Hatt, but we didn't lose any, either.
The proceeds were prudently invested.

The PWC was won as
a prize in a raffle.



Never mind that. Why does he have a Bilgeliner in front of his office?
Is it a display of "Boating Don'ts?"
Yeah, when we were in the boat biz, my father always had one or two



"around the back" that he was forced to take in trade. These were sold
as "as is, where is." He made sure the engine would start and run.
Beyond that, it was up to the prospective buyer to decide if he wanted
it. They moved off the lot pretty quickly, partially because my dad's
main store was on a highly trafficked commercial route with lots of
manufacturing and machining and aerospace plants near by. In those days,
workers at these places could fix anything.


Actually, Dipper, I don't think my father ever saw a Bayliner. But
he still
called bumpers bumpers.
--



Bayliner wined and dined my father a half dozen times to entice him
into becoming its dealer. His operation was the largest small boat
dealership in its area of New England, and for 30 years, he was the
*exclusive* Evinrude dealer in a densely populated coastal county. He
also handled Mercuries. He never liked Bayliners, and referred to them
as "jerry-built."


From 1947 until he died, he sold more than 500 outboard motors a
year from his stores, accounting for a reasonably high percentage of
*all*
outboards sold in his home state for those years.


This is a killer. My father was in the boat business dating back to
right after
the Big War. When he died and I was looking through his warehouse, I
found
wrapped in a nuclear fall-out bag (no kidding), a brand-new 1949
Evinrude 8015
50 hp outboard. The motor was a gift to my father from Evinrude for
winning some
outboard stock utility or hydroplane race.

I gave the motor to a friend of my dad's, who worked at the shop as head
mechanic. I don't believe he ever used it and I'm sure it is still
brand-new. I
have no idea who might own it now.



He also built
boats, and I worked on a few, both wood, glass covered wood and
all fiberglass. After he died, however, we sold the biz and I've
just been an occasional boat owner.


Besides, I worked off and on in the
boat business and inherited it when he died. So, as I said, I'm
knee-deep in boat heritage.


Oh,
and I had some friends who died in the service, too, but it wasn't for
what they believed in. They were drafted, shipped to Vietnam and came
back in body bags.


During the war, he turned out experimental brass shell casings
for the
Army and hopped up outboards for the Navy, which wanted to use them on
smaller
landing craft. I had photos at one time of my father with Ole Evinrude
himself.
My mother knew one of Evinrude's wives...she was a minor movie star or
singer...I forgot which. Maybe both.



Have you ever sailed from San Francisco to Hawaii? I have.
Have you ever rounded Cape Horn? I have, twice.
Have you ever transited the Panama Canal? I have.
Have you owned more than 20 boats in your lifetime? I have.
Have you ever sailed large boats competitively? I have.
Have you ever been hundreds of miles from land in a powerboat under your
command? I have.


My father and his chief mechanic once crossed the Atlantic in winter in
a 22'
boat powered by twin outboards. Yes, it is possible, even the fuel.
Got a
"fireboat" welcome in NYC.




Here are some:

Hatteras 43' sportfish
Swan 41' racing/cruising sloop
Morgan 33
O'Day 30
Cruisers, Inc., Mackinac 22
Century Coronado
Bill Luders 16, as sweet a sailboat as ever caught a breeze.
Century 19' wood lapstrake with side wheel steering
Cruisers, Inc. 18' and 16' wood lapstrakes
Wolverines. Molded plywood. Gorgeous. Several. 14,15,17 footers with
various
Evinrudes
Lighting class sailboat
Botved Coronet with twin 50 hp Evinrudes. Interesting boat.
Aristocraft (a piece of junk...13', fast, held together with spit)
Alcort Sunfish
Ancarrow Marine Aquiflyer. 22' footer with two Caddy Crusaders.
Guaranteed 60
mph. In the late 1950's.
Skimmar brand skiff
Arkansas Traveler fiberglass bowrider (I think it was a bowrider)
Dyer Dhow
Su-Mark round bilge runabout, fiberglass
Penn Yan runabouts. Wood.
Old Town wood and canvas canoe
Old Town sailing canoe...different than above canoe


Sometime in the early 1960s, I was driving back from Ft. Leonard Wood to
Kansas City in a nice old MGA I owned at the time. About halfway home it
started raining heavily, I turned on the wipers, and EVERY SINGLE
electrical accessory and light in the car flashed on, there was a large
popping sound and it all blew out at once. And the car caught fire. I
pulled over to the side of the road, watched the fire, removed my
license plate and hitched on home. For all I know, that old MGA is still
there.

Sure was a pretty little car.


Puh-lease, Karen. You've not seen nor have I ever posted one example of
my professional writings on building structure and the effects on it of
hurricane-force winds and seismic activity. I haven't done any of these
in at least 10 year, but at the time I was field researching,
photographing and writing these reports, they were quite accurate,
topical and well-received by their intended audiences.


A small fleet of Polar skiffs were purchased by an inshore bait, tackle

and boat rental business on the ICW in NE Florida. These boats were not
used on open waters. Within 90 days, cracks developed in the liners
that
also served as the deck over the flotation in the bottom of the
hulls. A
guide I know, one whose boats and engines are supplied to him by
manufacturers, also had a Polar skiff go bad on him for the same
reasons
-liner and then hull fractures.



Harry has claimed to have a 20 yrs his junior beautiful wife, he even
put a fake pic of a beautiful woman on a website once claiming it was
his "young bride", he may have a wife, although I doubt it, we don't
like nor tolerate misogynists for long.

Needless to say he's made up many "dramatic" over the top stories
over the years about this lie to feed his ego & pretend he's the centre
of attention, but as with his boat claims & other crap, there's never
once been even a shred of independently verifiable material.

After he stalked Madcow in real life, which was most frightening, I
do suspect he's very very dangerous & that this "bride" story is his
delusional appropriation of his, probably court ordered, treating
psychotherapist as "wife" (it seems he was under lock & key for what??
over a year??? a sexual deviant maybe??), have a read of just a small
part of his BS & make up your own mind, it's all about free choice:-)

1. She *is* my bride. There are no rules that determine the end of
"bride-hood." If I want to refer to her as my bride, I may.

2. As a professional writer, I know the rules of language and am entitled to
break them in exercise of my license.

3. I doubt many married women would object to their husbands lovingly
referring to them as brides. The connotations are pleasant.

4. She's 20 years younger than I am.

Naw. What happened was that I handled a couple of "political" consulting
jobs funded out of the DC area to help a few candidates and defeat a
couple of ballot issues. Through no fault of mine, we won each of the
races, so some of the deep pockets types based in the DC area think I
actually *know something* about the process. I was offered a contract
that requires my presence in DC quite frequently. My bride also was
offered a job up here that represented a significant professional career
move. So, we're "up here" much of the time and "down there" the rest of
it, except when we're "somewhere else." I've been back to Jax (well,
really south of Jax) five times since coming "up here" late last summer
and my bride just returned from a business trip there.

I swear this is true.

Here's a funny. My bride had to fly out to San Diego Wednesday and
hitched a ride on her company's corporate jet. They landed in Salina,
Kansas, which is due north of Wichita and Skippy's suburb of Derby.

So when she gets to San Diego, I get a call asking, "What the hell did
you do in Kansas...we didn't fly over one significant patch of
water...?"

Harry, you make over 500 posts a week to this group and you don't own
a boat?
And why are you so crabby?
Maybe these two factors are related?



One has to own something to use it? Hmmm. My bride drives off in her car
every day, but she doesn't own it.

I'm not crabby. You asked for advice I gave you some. I questioned your
wanting to take a very small boat out into high seas and suddenly you
turned sour. It's your pot; you are the one stewing in it.

No, it is the boat of a friend. It is a 24' ProLine center console with,
if I recall, a 225 hp Merc on it. It was a dark and stormy day in
January (1997) when we went out, but the sky cleared once we got out to
the Gulf Stream.

Bride and I caught and released:

1 white marlin
12-15 yellowtail snappers, maybe two pounds each. Pretty, pretty fish.
Assorted red snappers
1 amberjack
2 jack crevalle jacks
1 snook
Nondescript sharks

Did you spend a year as a line psychotherapist at a 650-bed state
hospital for forensic patients?
Did you spend a year as senior psychotherapist at a county facility for
substance abusers?
Did you spend two years as chief of therapy at a private, 200-bed
facility for the mentally and emotionally ill, at which approximately
half the patients were trying to beat drugs or alcohol?
Are you currently chief of therapy for a for a multi-practitioner
practice of some 825 patients, about a third of which are seeking help
for substance abuse problems?

Licensed psychotherapist
Screening as to character and background for each degree earned
On-going screening by faculty while in educational system
Interviews and screenings for required years of internships, plus, at
the same
time, supervision by a licensed professional.
Close professional and personal supervision by a licensed therapist for
two years
of employment before being allowed to apply for licensure
Licensure background check, submission of recommendations by licensed
practitioners
Four hour written examination on state laws
Five hour written examination on diagnosis, procedure and practice

My wife went through this before becoming licensed. Her final internship
was as a
psychotherapist at a 600-bed high security state psychiatric hospital
where, on a
daily basis, she was exposed to more danger than your average soldier.

My wife worked for a year as psychotherapist in a Florida 600-bed state
mental institution for forensic patients. She saw and treated numerous
sexual deviants who do a bit more than expose themselves. Such "treatment"
is part of being in the mental health professions.

You see, I'm a nautical psychotherapist, and for only $125 an hour,
until their health insurance runs out, I help Bayliner owners overcome their
feelings of boatable inadequacy.

She is a licensed, practicing
psychotherapist and often tells me I am the sanest person she sees each
day. Which can be taken any way one likes.

1. I'm married to a psychotherapist. Live-in therapy, dontcha know? And
much of
Freud is passe.

My ex-wife surpassed the anti-Christ at least a decade ago.

They're not actually "free" moments. I go to boat dealers to round-up
Bayliner owners who are trying to find one who will take their own
version of flotsam and jetsam in on trade.

1. The address listed is not a home address. It is an office.

2. I have three phone numbers. The phone number listed is not one of
mine. It has never been one of mine. The phone number *did* belong to an
after-hours message recording hotline my wife maintained for her most
mentally disturbed patients. Some of these troubled souls were
court-ordered referrals. *Every* call to that phone number--every
call--was recorded AND because of the nature of the line, my wife had
the ability to alert the telephone company to trace the phone number of
every incoming call to that line, *even* if the person making the call
tried to block his number.

Why, you might ask? Because when you are dealing with suicidal people,
they'll liable to tell their therapist over the phone that they are
planning to take their life. If the therapist believes the threat is
real, she or he will want to dispatch emergency srvices and perhaps the
police.

In the years my wife has provided this pro bono service, she has never
received a threatening or abusive call from a mentally ill patient or
court-ordered referral. However, after the ranking Flaming Ass of this
newsgroup posted the hotline number in this newsgroup, she received a
number of abusive, foul-mouthed AND life-threatening calls. These were
mostly directed at me but, of course, I never received them BECAUSE
(duh!) the phone is not mine and I've never answered it.
Naturally, my wife alerted the authorities, with whom she works closely
because of her court-referred patients. The authorities are
investigating the callers and have involved both the FBI *and*
authorities in other states, including Florida, Georgia, California and
Texas. Working with the telephone company, the authorities have been
able to trace the origin of virtually every abusive call. And, of
course, they have the tape recordings of the abusive messages. Several
suspects have been identified. I really don't know what the outcome of
all this will be. We haven't had an update in several weeks, nor are
either of us here that interested in the sleazeballs that would make
such calls.

The phone number, of course, is "wired," so when the obnoxious calls came in
from the idiot rec.boaters, the numbers were easy enough to trace. The local
police handled a complaint, the local telco was involved and when it was
discovered the point of origin was out of state, the FBI got involved. At
least one of the idiots was caught and prosecuted. As far as I can tell, he
has not posted here again.


jps

Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!
 

In article , says...

I think that is sufficient proof that the claim was accurate.
LZ


Thanks LZ.

Mr. Jonathan Ball should probably look into Swiss history a little more.

It's pretty clear they're a mercantile lot living under the
misperception of neutrality.

The Jewish people are just one of many who've been stolen from and then
stiff armed by Swiss banking laws. There are folks around the globe
who've been screwed by creeps, thugs and the like whose ill-gotten gains
are "protected" by the Swiss banking system.

It's a pretty country hiding some of the ugliest secrets in the world.

jps

Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!
 

"jps" wrote in message
...
In article , says...

I think that is sufficient proof that the claim was accurate.
LZ


Thanks LZ.

Mr. Jonathan Ball should probably look into Swiss history a little more.

Actually, he should just listen to news reports designed for grownups. I
*knew* there'd been something in the news during the past few years.

Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!
 

"Lone Haranguer" wrote in message
...


As the historians
dug deeper, it
was revealed that
Switzerland had sent thousands of
Jewish refugees back to
Nazi-occupied Europe

Tangential to this (sort of): A large number of Russians fled Stalin's
terror during WWII. If I recall from my reading, the largest number of them
ended up in Northern Italy, somehow under the auspices of the U.S. and the
British. At the end of the war, we sent them back. I don't recall the
reason, but it was one of those things that makes you say "WTF????" Some
sort of handy political settlement with our "ally", Josef Stalin.

No saints anywhere.

Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!
 

Aufweidersehen!
LZ

jps wrote:

In article ,
says...

You're so full of **** you're not even worth responding to. Look at my
post above and apply it to your weakass arguments.

What the hell do you do for the Aussie economy other than bitch at
American left wingers?

Not a damn thing I suspect. Are you on Aussie welfare or retired from
some government job?

Leaching off your family then?

Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!
 

Good, does that mean this discussion is over?

Only if:

Every person is entitled to compensation for honest labor. If we can't
agree on
that basic premise, there is no hope for any additional discussion.



In that case, there's no purpose in hollering into a void.

Free market spin? "Every person is entitled to compensation for honest labor-
unless we can figure a way to screw them out of compensation, (in which case
they are free to go work elsewhere, if they can)."

Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!
 

jps wrote:

In article , says...

I think that is sufficient proof that the claim was accurate.
LZ


Thanks LZ.

Mr. Jonathan Ball should probably look into Swiss history a little more.

It's pretty clear they're a mercantile lot living under the
misperception of neutrality.

The Jewish people are just one of many who've been stolen from and then
stiff armed by Swiss banking laws. There are folks around the globe
who've been screwed by creeps, thugs and the like whose ill-gotten gains
are "protected" by the Swiss banking system.

It's a pretty country hiding some of the ugliest secrets in the world.

jps


Ball probably is very young, very smug, inexperienced in the reality of
the world and likely believes the holocaust was a myth.

He's best ignored.

--
Email sent to is never read.

Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!
 

Doug Kanter wrote:

Tangential to this (sort of): A large number of Russians fled Stalin's
terror during WWII. If I recall from my reading, the largest number of them
ended up in Northern Italy, somehow under the auspices of the U.S. and the
British. At the end of the war, we sent them back. I don't recall the
reason, but it was one of those things that makes you say "WTF????" Some
sort of handy political settlement with our "ally", Josef Stalin.

No saints anywhere.

Sweden also ended up with quite a few. Their version of "neutrality"
was not much different than Switzerland's. The Swedes got rich off the
war The Russian POWs and DPs that were in Sweden all ended up in
Siberia. Stalin felt that anyone exposed to outside influences was not
going to be content with his version of the USSR.
LZ

Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!
 

Where do you get the information that Wal-Mart does not make health
Insurance available to its employees?

According to a news article in last week's paper- that insurance costs $250 a
month
(which is a heck of a lot of you're grossing
$1200 and taking home $950)- and carries a $3000 deductible.

If so, must be underwritten by Middle Finger Life and Casualty

25% of your take home pay for health insurance, and 25% of your annual income
for deductible. Nice.

Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!
 

Amen!

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Our jobs are going overseas because
our politicians have no interest in fighting corporations from sending
jobs overseas.



Our jobs are going overseas faster than they would have partially because
WALMART is so super aggressive in their buying. When they want to carry
toasters, for example, they invite all the major manufacturers of toasters
down
to Arkansas and pit them against one another. During the last cost cutting
cycle, everybody who wanted to sell anyhing to WALMART *had* to go to
China for
labor or lose out.

WALMART doesn't tell a mfg that they *must* build in China- only that if
they
can't meet or beat the price of those who do they are, effectively, out of
business starting next month.

What will the next sacrifice be? Quality?
Or, when WALMART can no longer increase profits by forcing suppliers to
cheaper
sources of labor, will WALMART raise prices? Will we soon be paying as
much as
we used to pay for a US built, item but buying stuff from China instead?

WALMART's vision for America is a place where a $9 an hour job, with no
benefits, is a *great* opportunity. They envision a country where obedient
workers volunteer
to work off the clock every week, and where all will shop a the "company
store."

In Walmart's world, there is no middle class. Unless $9 an hour, with a
few
extra hours thrown in unpaid every week, is going to be the new "middle
class."

In Walmart's World, there are some opportunities for better income. If
you're
willing to work 50-51 weeks a year, 12-18 hours a day, 6-7 days a week,
you can
eventually rise to "store manager" and approach 6-figures a year. :-(

One of the great hypocrisies of the WalMart culture is the great emphasis
on
quality "family" experiences. How many of the managers working 80 hours a
week
or more have any quality time left to spend with the family? How many of
the
people earing $9 an hour get to go home after work, rather than to the
second,part time job they need to pay basic living expenses?

Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!
 

On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 14:01:55 GMT, Fred Ziffel wrote:
We don't make much of anything anymore, and we are
becoming poorer because of it.

Not true. The value of our total manufacturing output is higher today
than it has ever been. Our productivity is the highest in the world, and
our manufacturing output is greater than that of any other nation in
the world.

Sure, manufacturing is a smaller percentage of our GDP today than in
the past, but that's because the service sector has grown so much faster
than manufacturing. In other words, our GDP is much larger than in the
past, so while the value produced by the manufacturing sector has
increased, the value produced by the service sector has increased
much more, leaving manufacturing a smaller percentage of the total.

Manufacturing employment is down about 2 million from its peak in
the 1970s, but still higher than it was in 1950. Mainly, those jobs have
been lost to automation and increased productivity. In other words,
output per worker is larger than in the past. That's generally a good
thing, because it means a manufacturing worker today is worth more
than he was in 1950, and that means he can be paid more than in
1950 without being inflationary.

The median US worker income today is also higher than it has ever
been ($32,200), and with the present low rate of inflation, it represents
an absolute increase in buying power over wages of times past.

The one cloud on the horizon is our trade balance. To put it bluntly,
we buy a lot more from the rest of the world than we sell to the rest
of the world. We can only do that because we are so much richer
than the rest of the world. This won't become a problem for us
as long as our GDP continues to grow at a rate of 2 to 3 percent a
year (we've just had a 3rd quarter with an annualized growth rate of
8.2%, that isn't sustainable, but we're on track for 2 to 3 percent
growth for the year, which is where we need to be).

We have been sloughing off our low profit low productivity industries
(for example, textiles, basic steel, etc) to countries with lower absolute
cost structures. That's also generally a good thing, because it lowers
the costs of our businesses which depend on those things, and it frees
our capital and our workers to pursue higher value activities. This causes
displacements, which can be painful to those workers who aren't adaptable,
but it is necessary if we are to retain our comparative advantage vis the
rest of the world.

Our current unemployment is hovering around 6%. That's a couple of
percentage points above what economists consider full employment.
But because of demographics (baby boomers are nearing retirement)
that will rapidly change. In fact, without immigration, we'd be facing
severe labor shortages by 2023.

Gary

Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!
 

Doug Kanter wrote:

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...


A real store would've moved those women out of the line, and perhaps
even
called the police. Not WM, though. As far as they're concerned, their
customers' time is worthless.


You can't put the blame on that type of behavior squarely on the
shoulders of Wal-Mart exclusively. Many other department stores work in
the same way. Any time you have a store which attracts a clientele which
is not "bloomingdales" quality, you employ people at or near minimum
wage, and do not offer line managers any incentive to do any more than
babysit the employees, you will get this sort of situation. I've been in
similar situations (I always end up picking the worst line) in grocery
stores as well as department stores.

Dave



I have, too. In the "other" store I shop at, the cashier's blinking light
would've gone on and a manager or security person would've been there in 30
seconds. Not Wal Mart, though.

Again, it's probably a local thing, and not something endemic to the
Walmart business plan.



Something else interesting about the WM near me: You know how you hear a
gentle beep from some cash registers each time an item is dragged across the
scanner? At WM, they've connected that to the public address system at the
front. Unbelievably loud and annoying. WTF? This is supposed to make the
place sound interesting?

What? You've got to be kidding. That would drive me nuts if I had to
listen to that for hours on end....

Dave

Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!
 

Gould 0738 wrote:

What do you do with
people who don't have enough skills to command jobs that 'pay a living
wage'?

There are a few "don't do's".....

High on the list would be "don't threaten your powerless mini-wage employee
with termination if he or she is unwilling to go clock out and then return to
work for a few 'free' hours." WalMart has been fined and penalized in scores
of cases for this exact
practice.

On the clock work: Mini-wage but legal.
Off the clock work: Slavery. Outlawed 140 years ago.

Every person is entitled to compensation for honest labor. If we can't agree on
that basic premise, there is no hope for any additional discussion.

If you can cite cases of this practice being endorsed by Wal-Mart
corporate, then I am in complete agreement with you. A few isolated
cases may be nothing more than a few overzealous store managers bucking
for a promotion, by lowering overhead costs...

Dave

Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!
 

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Where do you get the information that Wal-Mart does not make health
Insurance available to its employees?

According to a news article in last week's paper- that insurance costs
$250 a
month
(which is a heck of a lot of you're grossing
$1200 and taking home $950)- and carries a $3000 deductible.

If so, must be underwritten by Middle Finger Life and Casualty

25% of your take home pay for health insurance, and 25% of your annual
income
for deductible. Nice.

In all fairness, Chuck, the cost of buying your own Blue Choice policy here
(Rochester) is about $6-7k per year. I imagine it's not much different
elsewhere. Sounds like WM is splitting the cost with the employees. Plenty
of employers do that. My ex works for a non-profit which only picks up about
20% of the BC tab.

Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...


Ball probably is very young, very smug, inexperienced in the reality of
the world and likely believes the holocaust was a myth.


Another Dave Hall?

Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!
 

If you can cite cases of this practice being endorsed by Wal-Mart
corporate, then I am in complete agreement with you. A few isolated
cases may be nothing more than a few overzealous store managers bucking
for a promotion, by lowering overhead costs...

Dave


WalMart will swear up and down that it has "no idea" this goes on in their
stores. They have in the past, they will in the future. Walmart will swear up
and down that it never uses undocumented workers earning well below any legal
minimum to clean its stores....(just forms a subsidiary corp to do so).

It's just like forcing suppliers tomove mfg offshore. Walmart doesn't tell the
suppliers
it won't buy domestic goods, but does tell the suppliers it will only pay a
dirt cheap price (that is impossible to meet with domestic production).

WalMart doesn't tell its store managers to
work the employees off the clock- it just simply sets staffing, budget, and
workload
parameters that leave the managers no other choices. WalMart managers video
conference with the home office on a regular basis, and any manager with higher
than normal labor costs is severely admonished in front of the other managers.
When a single manager cheats the system and works people off the clock, others
are compelled to follow suit or risk being compared unfavorably to their peers.

WalMart can publicly condemn working employees "off the clock", all the while
continuing to set standards that require
2500 man/hours per week to run a store and budgeting for 21-2200.

You think the managers who have been found guilty of this practice do so
because they are fundamentally evil? You think its just a coincidence that this
practice has been exposed at WalMart stores all over the United States?

Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!
 

In all fairness, Chuck, the cost of buying your own Blue Choice policy here
(Rochester) is about $6-7k per year.

Does that $7k a year policy also carry a $3000 deductible?

Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!
 

Lone Haranguer wrote:


Jonathan Ball wrote:

jps wrote:

Bull****, they collect tolls off of blood money.

Prove it.


http://www.truthout.org/docs_02/06.27H.swiss.pay.htm

A an extremist radical propaganda site. It's crap from
beginning to end.

Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!
 

jps wrote:

In article , says...


I think that is sufficient proof that the claim was accurate.
LZ



Thanks LZ.

Mr. Jonathan Ball should probably look into Swiss history a little more.

I think you should look into it in the first place,
whiner. It's obvious you never have.

Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!
 

Harry Krause wrote:

jps wrote:


In article , says...


I think that is sufficient proof that the claim was accurate.
LZ


Thanks LZ.

Mr. Jonathan Ball should probably look into Swiss history a little more.

It's pretty clear they're a mercantile lot living under the
misperception of neutrality.

The Jewish people are just one of many who've been stolen from and then
stiff armed by Swiss banking laws. There are folks around the globe
who've been screwed by creeps, thugs and the like whose ill-gotten gains
are "protected" by the Swiss banking system.

It's a pretty country hiding some of the ugliest secrets in the world.

jps



Ball probably is very young,

No. $50 says I'm older and have more documentable
education than you, putz.

very smug,

Hardly. The correct term is self confident. I am self
confident, you are smug. Older, wiser people like me
know the difference.

inexperienced in the reality of the world

No.

and likely believes the holocaust was a myth.

No.

Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!
 

Fred Ziffel wrote:

On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 16:32:56 GMT, Jonathan Ball
wrote:



We used to make very high quality products too.

We still do. We make those things where we have some
comparative advantage. Increasingly, the things we
make are not tangible. That doesn't make them any less
valuable.


Sorry, I've been listening to these same bull**** arguments for over
20 years,

No, you clearly *haven't* been listening to them. You
very clearly don't understand comparative advantage,
and patterns of trade. You are economically illiterate.

and we continue to have a declining standard of living,

That's false.

and now huge trade deficits,

Not because of anything wrong with the concept of
comparative advantage. We have massive trade deficits
because of bad government fiscal policy.

and in the not too distant future, we are
going to have a HUGE devaluation in our dollar.

Which works to REVERSE the trade deficit. If you knew
anything, anything at all, about economics, you'd know
that. But you don't.

We have lost most of
the technological advantage that we used to have.

ABSOLUTLEY false. You just don't know what the hell
you're talking about.

If you think these
things are good for America, YOU are the one with the stupid thinking.

The loss of technological advantage would be bad, but
it's not happening. The rest, you simply get wrong, as
an economics-illiterate is expected to do.

Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!
 

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...


A real store would've moved those women out of the line, and perhaps
even
called the police. Not WM, though. As far as they're concerned,
their
customers' time is worthless.


You can't put the blame on that type of behavior squarely on the
shoulders of Wal-Mart exclusively. Many other department stores work
in
the same way. Any time you have a store which attracts a clientele
which
is not "bloomingdales" quality, you employ people at or near minimum
wage, and do not offer line managers any incentive to do any more than
babysit the employees, you will get this sort of situation. I've been
in
similar situations (I always end up picking the worst line) in grocery
stores as well as department stores.

Dave



I have, too. In the "other" store I shop at, the cashier's blinking
light
would've gone on and a manager or security person would've been there in
30
seconds. Not Wal Mart, though.

Again, it's probably a local thing, and not something endemic to the
Walmart business plan.



Something else interesting about the WM near me: You know how you hear a
gentle beep from some cash registers each time an item is dragged across
the
scanner? At WM, they've connected that to the public address system at
the
front. Unbelievably loud and annoying. WTF? This is supposed to make the
place sound interesting?

What? You've got to be kidding. That would drive me nuts if I had to
listen to that for hours on end....

Dave



I kid you not. At first, I wondered if my 50 year old hearing had begun to
lose some of its directional sensitivity. But, last time I was at WM, my 14
yr old son & two friends were with me. They focused on the sources and sure
enough, it was coming from the PA system. You know the 120 decibel French
fry timers at McDonalds? Lower the level a bit, but multiply by however many
registers are beeping.

Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!
 

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
In all fairness, Chuck, the cost of buying your own Blue Choice policy
here
(Rochester) is about $6-7k per year.

Does that $7k a year policy also carry a $3000 deductible?

Are you being facetious?

If not, and I understand your question, co-pays are $5 for normal doctor
visit, $10-$15 for specialists, and if I recall, $35 or $50 for E.R. Surgery
is also under $100.

Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!
 

"Jonathan Ball" wrote in message
hlink.net...
Lone Haranguer wrote:


Jonathan Ball wrote:

jps wrote:

Bull****, they collect tolls off of blood money.

Prove it.


http://www.truthout.org/docs_02/06.27H.swiss.pay.htm

A an extremist radical propaganda site. It's crap from
beginning to end.


I'm not sure what you're having trouble believing, but perhaps things like
this will snap you out of whatever trance you're in:
http://www.nyed.uscourts.gov/IRURF.pdf

Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!
 

Jonathan Ball wrote:
Fred Ziffel wrote:

Nothing wrong with Switzerland, but I wish it was made in the USA,
like everything used to be.

That's stupid thinking. Why do you really care where
it's made? Borders are arbitrary. For things that are
made in the U.S., do you care that they're made in your
state? For things that are made in your state, do you
care that they're made in your county?

Stupid thinking? I care where products are made because I want Americans
who need manufacturing jobs to have decent manufacturing jobs in the
United States, jobs where they can turn out good products and earn a
living for their families. Good manufacturing jobs help us maintain a
good manufacturing economy, and keep us from being overly dependent upon
other nations.

You sound like a one-worlder.


--
Email sent to is never read.

Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!
 

Jonathan Ball wrote:

Lone Haranguer wrote:


Jonathan Ball wrote:

jps wrote:

Bull****, they collect tolls off of blood money.

Prove it.


http://www.truthout.org/docs_02/06.27H.swiss.pay.htm

A an extremist radical propaganda site. It's crap from
beginning to end.



I think you've spent too much of your life reading Ayn Rand and taking
it seriously. You're really quite the smug, arrogant ass.

--
Email sent to is never read.

Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!
 

Jonathan Ball wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

jps wrote:


In article , says...


I think that is sufficient proof that the claim was accurate.
LZ


Thanks LZ.

Mr. Jonathan Ball should probably look into Swiss history a little more.

It's pretty clear they're a mercantile lot living under the
misperception of neutrality.

The Jewish people are just one of many who've been stolen from and then
stiff armed by Swiss banking laws. There are folks around the globe
who've been screwed by creeps, thugs and the like whose ill-gotten gains
are "protected" by the Swiss banking system.

It's a pretty country hiding some of the ugliest secrets in the world.

jps



Ball probably is very young,

No. $50 says I'm older and have more documentable
education than you, putz.


That's Mr. Putz to you, buttwiper. And while you may be older, I doubt
you have more documentable formal education. If you do, your daddy must
have bought your degrees for you, as George H.W. Bush bought them for
his dumb son, Dubya.


--
Email sent to is never read.

Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!
 

Doug Kanter wrote:

"Jonathan Ball" wrote in message
hlink.net...
Lone Haranguer wrote:


Jonathan Ball wrote:

jps wrote:

Bull****, they collect tolls off of blood money.

Prove it.


http://www.truthout.org/docs_02/06.27H.swiss.pay.htm

A an extremist radical propaganda site. It's crap from
beginning to end.


I'm not sure what you're having trouble believing, but perhaps things like
this will snap you out of whatever trance you're in:
http://www.nyed.uscourts.gov/IRURF.pdf


Methinks Jonathan is a college freshman with a rich daddy.

--
Email sent to is never read.

Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!
 

Jonathan Ball wrote:

jps:
Bull****, they collect tolls off of blood money.

Prove it.


http://www.truthout.org/docs_02/06.27H.swiss.pay.htm

A an extremist radical propaganda site. It's crap from
beginning to end.

What about the other ones I posted? I posted three different articles
and there were a lot more to choose from.

I think you are in de Nile up to your neck.
LZ

Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!
 

What a putz.


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Jonathan Ball wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

jps wrote:


In article ,
says...


I think that is sufficient proof that the claim was accurate.
LZ


Thanks LZ.

Mr. Jonathan Ball should probably look into Swiss history a little
more.

It's pretty clear they're a mercantile lot living under the
misperception of neutrality.

The Jewish people are just one of many who've been stolen from and then
stiff armed by Swiss banking laws. There are folks around the globe
who've been screwed by creeps, thugs and the like whose ill-gotten
gains
are "protected" by the Swiss banking system.

It's a pretty country hiding some of the ugliest secrets in the world.

jps



Ball probably is very young,

No. $50 says I'm older and have more documentable
education than you, putz.


That's Mr. Putz to you, buttwiper. And while you may be older, I doubt
you have more documentable formal education. If you do, your daddy must
have bought your degrees for you, as George H.W. Bush bought them for
his dumb son, Dubya.


--
Email sent to is never read.

Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!
 

Harry Krause wrote:

Jonathan Ball wrote:

Fred Ziffel wrote:


Nothing wrong with Switzerland, but I wish it was made in the USA,
like everything used to be.

That's stupid thinking. Why do you really care where
it's made? Borders are arbitrary. For things that are
made in the U.S., do you care that they're made in your
state? For things that are made in your state, do you
care that they're made in your county?


Stupid thinking?

Yes: stupid thinking.

I care where products are made because I want Americans
who need manufacturing jobs

No Americans "need" manufacturing jobs. You're proving
you subscribe to stupid thinking.

to have decent manufacturing jobs in the
United States, jobs where they can turn out good products and earn a
living for their families. Good manufacturing jobs help us maintain a
good manufacturing economy,

Something we don't need and already don't have.

and keep us from being overly dependent upon
other nations.

We can't be dependent on them unless they're dependent
on us.


You sound like a one-worlder.

You sound just stupid.

Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!
 

Fred Ziffel wrote:

On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 17:54:34 GMT, Jonathan Ball
wrote:


Fred Ziffel wrote:


On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 16:32:56 GMT, Jonathan Ball
wrote:


We used to make very high quality products too.

We still do. We make those things where we have some
comparative advantage. Increasingly, the things we
make are not tangible. That doesn't make them any less
valuable.


Sorry, I've been listening to these same bull**** arguments for over
20 years,

No, you clearly *haven't* been listening to them. You
very clearly don't understand comparative advantage,
and patterns of trade. You are economically illiterate.



No, I'm not "economically illiterate," I just don't have my head up my
ass, like you do.

You ARE economically illiterate. You don't understand
a thing about it.

You are obviously a brainwashed fool who would
deliberately destroy America with your idiotic theories about
economics, theories that have absolutely no basis in reality.

They very much have their basis in reality, stupid.
They are formulated based on *observing* reality.

Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!
 

"Jonathan Ball" wrote


No. $50 says I'm older and have more documentable
education than you, putz.


WTF is "documentable education"? I know a lot of people who have degrees
who can't tie their shoelaces. Education is by NO means an indicator of
intelligence. Many degrees are merely certificates of attendance. Or
merely those bestowed by The Mighty Wizard.

Steve

Say NO NO NO to Wal-Mart!!!
 

In article k.net,
says...
Harry Krause wrote:

jps wrote:


In article , says...


I think that is sufficient proof that the claim was accurate.
LZ


Thanks LZ.

Mr. Jonathan Ball should probably look into Swiss history a little more.

It's pretty clear they're a mercantile lot living under the
misperception of neutrality.

The Jewish people are just one of many who've been stolen from and then
stiff armed by Swiss banking laws. There are folks around the globe
who've been screwed by creeps, thugs and the like whose ill-gotten gains
are "protected" by the Swiss banking system.

It's a pretty country hiding some of the ugliest secrets in the world.

jps



Ball probably is very young,

No. $50 says I'm older and have more documentable
education than you, putz.

very smug,

Hardly. The correct term is self confident. I am self
confident, you are smug. Older, wiser people like me
know the difference.

Allow me to suggest your self-confidence is unearned.


inexperienced in the reality of the world

No.

and likely believes the holocaust was a myth.

No.

This guy is a loudmouthed fool whose references are as paper thin as
whatever foreskins he's got. Ask him about Switzerland or the
Employment Policy Foundation and you'll find him a font of
misinformation.

You know he's an idiot if he thinks he's older and has more education
than Harry! ;^)

jps