On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 13:37:27 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/23/18 12:30 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:14:35 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 23:42:07 -0500, wrote:


Well, you don't see many kids walking around with handguns, do you?

There seem to be plenty of them in Baltimore, Detroit and Chicago..
That is the point of a handgun, you can't see people walking around
with them.

To the liberals, those don't count, remember.

You made a good point. If the parents OK it, who's going to stop them. Perhaps we need to see some
much stronger action taken against parents whose kids have access to the guns and use them
illegally.

Most of those kids don't have functional parents


Any parent who gives a functioning .22LR Rifle to a little kid, one less
than 16 at a minimum, is not a functional parent.

We could hunt in Maryland, unaccompanied at 14 or 15. I have a M69
Winchester .22 and a single bbl 12 ga

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 19:11:13 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

It is pretty hard to find any kind of gun with a detachable magazine
where they don't have big ones. It is certainly true of the Rugers.


Lots of weapons do not have enough call to manufacture extended magazines.
ARs do.

You just live in a place where they are illegal. It is pretty hard to
find SAs these days that somebody is not selling a high cap magazine
for. You are right that there may be some obscure ones but not that
many.

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 15:11:43 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


I just didn't grow up with my parents saying, "Why don't you go out and
play with your .22 rifle" just to get me out of their hair. It was bad
enough when (in the middle of the summer) they finally caught me going
outside with a winter coat, knit hat and carrying swimming googles.
They weren't aware of the BB gun fights a bunch of us had.

See that must be a northern thing. I never heard of anyone shooting at
someone else with a BB gun when we were growing up. It was still a gun
and we were taught to not even point it at someone. My father would
have stomped a mud hole in my ass if he saw me point a cap gun at
someone.

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 15:21:07 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 12:30:25 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:14:35 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 23:42:07 -0500, wrote:


Well, you don't see many kids walking around with handguns, do you?

There seem to be plenty of them in Baltimore, Detroit and Chicago..
That is the point of a handgun, you can't see people walking around
with them.

To the liberals, those don't count, remember.

You made a good point. If the parents OK it, who's going to stop them. Perhaps we need to see some
much stronger action taken against parents whose kids have access to the guns and use them
illegally.

Most of those kids don't have functional parents

Then a bit of parent's time in jail won't hurt the kids. The word would get around, I think.

If you are talking about the kids in those cities, their father is
already in jail and mom may be too. (dead, addicted or just in the
wind)

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 15:25:12 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 12:32:33 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:27:11 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/23/18 8:17 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/22/2018 11:44 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 21:47:22 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Maybe the fact that the military look alike weapons have extremely high
capacity magazines available.

It is pretty hard to find any kind of gun with a detachable magazine
where they don't have big ones. It is certainly true of the Rugers.



Try to legally buy one in Massachusetts.Â* If you showed up at a range
with one the range safety officer would confiscate it and escort you
from the range ... at least they would at the club I belonged to.




My current CZ 512 has five or 10 round detachable mags, as did my
previous CZ bolt action rifle. I believe the bolt action Ruger precision
rifles are limited to 10-round mags.

Are you saying I can't find a bigger magazine for either of them?

Hell, that didn't even take me long:

https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/prod...06703120201.do

That is OEM too, not even a 3d party.

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 12:37:30 PM UTC-6, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/23/18 12:30 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:14:35 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 23:42:07 -0500, wrote:


Well, you don't see many kids walking around with handguns, do you?

There seem to be plenty of them in Baltimore, Detroit and Chicago..
That is the point of a handgun, you can't see people walking around
with them.

To the liberals, those don't count, remember.

You made a good point. If the parents OK it, who's going to stop them. Perhaps we need to see some
much stronger action taken against parents whose kids have access to the guns and use them
illegally.

Most of those kids don't have functional parents


Any parent who gives a functioning .22LR Rifle to a little kid, one less
than 16 at a minimum, is not a functional parent.

I had my own .22 Marlin at age 10 and bought my own .357 when i was 15. Guess my parents really screwed up.

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 17:19:14 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:56:14 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 3:34 PM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:58:04 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 8:46 AM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:17:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/22/2018 11:44 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 21:47:22 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Maybe the fact that the military look alike weapons have extremely high
capacity magazines available.

It is pretty hard to find any kind of gun with a detachable magazine
where they don't have big ones. It is certainly true of the Rugers.



Try to legally buy one in Massachusetts. If you showed up at a range
with one the range safety officer would confiscate it and escort you
from the range ... at least they would at the club I belonged to.


Even with laws as strict as they are in MA, Boston didn't have a very good year in 2017.

http://www.fox25boston.com/news/teen...2017/672133630

"In 2017, Boston is on track to have a murder rate of 8.7 per 100,000 people, compared to the
estimated rates of 3.3 per 100,000 in New York City and 6.8 per 100,000 in Los Angeles, according to
the Brennan Center."

Wonder how this is going to work. "Starting in January, authorities will have a judicial system
devoted exclusively to processing gun offenses in the Suffolk Superior Court after being operated
for more than a decade in the Boston Municipal Court."

A lot of law officers are down on systems which allow gun offenders to get '30 days probation'.


Big cities in Massachusetts are not immune to the rise in gun related
fatalities. Gangs exist here as they do elsewhere in the nation.


But the statistics do point out the ineffectiveness of more stringent gun laws.


I don't read it that way.

He states that although violent crime is down 7 percent the rising
number of deaths in young people is alarming.

"We're seeing kids younger and younger with handguns," Commissioner
Evans said. "They're shooting at each other, that's why we have to work
harder to keep those kids out of that lifestyle."

He also states that half of the incidents are gang related shootings.

Not too many gang members legally purchase firearms, I don't think.

I was referring to Boston's murder rate, higher than New York or Los Angeles, even with the very
strict gun laws in the state. It's not the 'legally purchased' firearms that are causing that, I
don't think. Folks who follow all the gun laws don't do the shooting. Wonder how many of the other
than gang shootings were done by owners of legally acquired firearms.

These people are in the business of selling illegal drugs that they
have no problem finding. Why would it be hard to find illegal guns?
In fact I bet a lot of street level drug deals are trading drugs for
stolen guns.

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 03:22:14 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:



I don't read it that way.

He states that although violent crime is down 7 percent the rising
number of deaths in young people is alarming.

"We're seeing kids younger and younger with handguns," Commissioner
Evans said. "They're shooting at each other, that's why we have to work
harder to keep those kids out of that lifestyle."

He also states that half of the incidents are gang related shootings.

Not too many gang members legally purchase firearms, I don't think.


Maybe you get an extra 3 years if caught with a firearm and do not have a
gun safety certificate. Need a certificate as a minor to drive a boat in
a bunch of states

Most of the time the gun charges get dealt away to get the conviction
on the more serious charge. In Florida that is not always so tho. We
had a woman here charged with aggravated assault that might have been
dealt away with a couple years or even probation but the gun charge
made it mandatory 20 years.

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:54:40 -0800 (PST), Its Me wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 4:28:35 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2018 3:28 PM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 13:04:02 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 12:21 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 03:24:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 10:48 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 16:11:18 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 3:45 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:21:01 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 12:13 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 07:25:20 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Here's a weird one. In Massachusetts, one of the most liberal states, a
15 year old can legally purchase and own a long gun with his/her
parent's permission.


If the parents are OK with it, can't a kid have any gun they want at
any age? Who is going to stop them?
I had my first shotgun at 14-15 when I started to hunt but I had a .22
for years before that. I suppose technically it was my dad's, handed
down from my grandfather but I had free access to it and they sold
ammo at the 7-11.


Fortunately, most parents I know personally have more smarts and a sense
of responsibility to allow their kids at any minor age to own guns.


That is Acela corridor thinking again and big city thinking at that.
In the early 60s hunting was a thing most of my friends did before
they could drive and this was just outside of DC in PG county.
Like I said, the 7-11 sold shotgun shells and .22s
I am sure that sounds strange today but you could walk in the woods
all the way from the DC line behind Eastover shopping center and
Forest Heights to the river, down past where National Harbor is now
and never see a thing but woods. That was 4 or 5 square miles
contiguous with the woods behind my house before they built the
interstate. Typically we did not really do much hunting east of 210
but there were some good quail and rabbit fields before you got there,
pretty much where the right of way for I-495 is now. West of 210 there
was just about anything you could expect to find in Maryland.
The strange thing is there is still a pretty big undeveloped parcel
down there right now.



There are plenty people who hunt in Massachusetts and the areas we've
lived in are probably more heavily wooded than your experience in
Maryland. The last house I lived in with my parents as a kid was
surrounded by tens of thousands of acres of woods and undeveloped land.

I still don't know of any parent I know who would allow a minor child to
have his/her very own gun. BB guns, yes. Firearms ... no.



===

I grew up in a semi-rural area of upstate NY and many of my friends
had their own 22s and/or shot guns. Not one was ever injured or
involved in any gun related incident.


Did your friends have AR-15s and have a Rambo mindset?


Now you have changed the subject then haven't you?
You went from "no minor should ever have anything but a BB gun" to
assuming we want our kid to have an AR. That being said, I am sure out
west where it is relatively safe to shoot one, there are teenagers
with ARs. They would usually start with a .22rf and demonstrate that
they are safe and knowledgable first but there are plenty of people
out in flyover country who understand a gun is a tool.



How have I changed the subject? My point was that you really can't
compare what was common 50 years ago to today. AR-15s had not been
invented that I know of and I don't think a teenager could run down
to the local gun store back then and buy a rifle designed for the
military back then.

I have suggested raising the minimum age requirement for the purchase of 'military style' weapons.
As far as I know, the school shooters have all been young. Raising the minimum age to 25 or 30 could
very well slow down the buying by young folks.

You skip over that for some reason. You think it's a stupid idea or what?


Not at all. I agree with you 100%. I think it should be 21 for *all*
firearms. Don't know if 25 or 30 would fly legally since it's just an
arbitrary age. I agree with the comment by many of the teenaged
students involved in the Florida shootings. If you aren't old enough at
18 to buy beer, you shouldn't be old enough to buy an AR-15.

The biggest problem I have with that is that at 18, you're old enough to be tried as an adult and to die for your country. However, you can't buy a beer or a gun? Uncle Sam can give you one to hold when you're dead. It seems disconnected to me. I do realize that the 18 year olds that are in the armed services are far more mature than some kid living in his parent's basement, or going to college on mom and dad's dime.

I've still no problem with 21 years old, for a military style weapon. Yes, they can serve in the
armed forces at 18, but they get a gun and bullets only after a lot of training. And they're sent to
face an enemy only after a whole lot more training. I could see making an exception for an
individual who has a DD 214 with the honorable discharge.

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 17:13:37 -0800 (PST), True North wrote:

On Friday, 23 February 2018 16:11:50 UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2018 2:23 PM, Bill wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2018 12:21 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 03:24:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 10:48 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 16:11:18 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 3:45 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:21:01 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 12:13 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 07:25:20 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Here's a weird one. In Massachusetts, one of the most liberal states, a
15 year old can legally purchase and own a long gun with his/her
parent's permission.


If the parents are OK with it, can't a kid have any gun they want at
any age? Who is going to stop them?
I had my first shotgun at 14-15 when I started to hunt but I had a .22
for years before that. I suppose technically it was my dad's, handed
down from my grandfather but I had free access to it and they sold
ammo at the 7-11.


Fortunately, most parents I know personally have more smarts and a sense
of responsibility to allow their kids at any minor age to own guns.


That is Acela corridor thinking again and big city thinking at that.
In the early 60s hunting was a thing most of my friends did before
they could drive and this was just outside of DC in PG county.
Like I said, the 7-11 sold shotgun shells and .22s
I am sure that sounds strange today but you could walk in the woods
all the way from the DC line behind Eastover shopping center and
Forest Heights to the river, down past where National Harbor is now
and never see a thing but woods. That was 4 or 5 square miles
contiguous with the woods behind my house before they built the
interstate. Typically we did not really do much hunting east of 210
but there were some good quail and rabbit fields before you got there,
pretty much where the right of way for I-495 is now. West of 210 there
was just about anything you could expect to find in Maryland.
The strange thing is there is still a pretty big undeveloped parcel
down there right now.



There are plenty people who hunt in Massachusetts and the areas we've
lived in are probably more heavily wooded than your experience in
Maryland. The last house I lived in with my parents as a kid was
surrounded by tens of thousands of acres of woods and undeveloped land.

I still don't know of any parent I know who would allow a minor child to
have his/her very own gun. BB guns, yes. Firearms ... no.



===

I grew up in a semi-rural area of upstate NY and many of my friends
had their own 22s and/or shot guns. Not one was ever injured or
involved in any gun related incident.


Did your friends have AR-15s and have a Rambo mindset?


Now you have changed the subject then haven't you?
You went from "no minor should ever have anything but a BB gun" to
assuming we want our kid to have an AR. That being said, I am sure out
west where it is relatively safe to shoot one, there are teenagers
with ARs. They would usually start with a .22rf and demonstrate that
they are safe and knowledgable first but there are plenty of people
out in flyover country who understand a gun is a tool.



How have I changed the subject? My point was that you really can't
compare what was common 50 years ago to today. AR-15s had not been
invented that I know of and I don't think a teenager could run down
to the local gun store back then and buy a rifle designed for the
military back then.


Sure they could. M1, M1 carbine. Bunch of enfields. My buddy bought a
303 English army rifle in high school. Was about $15. Only problem was
finding ammo. Was just a different configuration of semi auto rifle.
Most places you can not buy a Military grade rifle as hey are select fire.
All the others are cosmetic. I shot my dad’s Browning Semi Auto 12guage
duck hunting at 14 years old.



I shot handguns as a young kid (under 10 years old) in my Grandfather's
range he had in his basement. He was a gun nut of sorts and had some
beautiful and somewhat rare firearms. But it was always under constant,
close supervision by him and my dad (who was not so much of a gun nut).
I was supposed to inherit a Swedish, bolt action Mauser carbine and an
authentic WWI German Luger when I was older but my father made sure that
never happened.

I just didn't grow up with my parents saying, "Why don't you go out and
play with your .22 rifle" just to get me out of their hair. It was bad
enough when (in the middle of the summer) they finally caught me going
outside with a winter coat, knit hat and carrying swimming googles.
They weren't aware of the BB gun fights a bunch of us had.


Yeah but...if The John didn't go out to rassle up some vittles for supper, the family would go to bed hungry.

No, my mother baked bread. We'd always have some bread and peanut butter to fall back on. I'm sure
the idea that rabbit, squirrel, and catfish played a big part in a family's diet is foreign to you.
But some of our parents didn't have the money your folks had. And you know what? Out of the five
boys, not one grew up to be a janitor for the Canadian government.