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#1
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Trailer Tires Overheating.
On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 19:48:12 GMT, Rick wrote:
Lloyd Sumpter wrote: Having worked in a 1000 MW generating station, I can safely say this is doggie-donuts. I wouldn't have hydrogen (or any explosive gas) within 100ft of a high-power generator! Hydrogen cooling is pretty common. He isn't, however, thinking about just where that heat in a tire is supposed to go. It's not like there is a heat exchanger to remove the heat from the gas that was heated by the rubber surrounding that gas to begin with. The wheel. I can see how the heat conductive properties of the gas can make a difference conducting heat from the tire to the wheel at different rates. Especially since the rubber itself isn't a good heat conductor. Steve |
#2
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Trailer Tires Overheating.
Steven Shelikoff wrote:
The wheel. The area of the wheel exposed to the gas is so small compared to the area of the tire producing the heat that I doubt it has much of any practical value in dissipation of heat above and beyond air flow over and radiation from the tire itself. Though it doesn't apply much to boat trailer tires, the heat conductivity of the gas would work against tire cooling in the case of race cars and aircraft since it would serve to increase the rate of tire heating in heavy brake application. Many aircraft tire failures are due to overheated brakes, heating the wheels to the point of causing the tires to blow out or burn, not from heat generated by the tires themselves. Rick |
#3
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Trailer Tires Overheating.
On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 00:20:28 GMT, Rick wrote:
Steven Shelikoff wrote: The wheel. The area of the wheel exposed to the gas is so small compared to the area of the tire producing the heat that I doubt it has much of any practical value in dissipation of heat above and beyond air flow over and radiation from the tire itself. Actually, the area of the wheel exposed to the gas in a race car tire is pretty large compared to the area of the tire since they are wide and low profile. A narrow, high profile trailer tire doesn't have very much wheel exposed to the gas for the amount of tire area producing heat. Though it doesn't apply much to boat trailer tires, the heat conductivity of the gas would work against tire cooling in the case of race cars and aircraft since it would serve to increase the rate of tire heating in heavy brake application. Many aircraft tire failures are due Of course it all depends on the type of racing. During most racing like road racing, twisty corners, etc, heavy braking is applied but for very short durations. Superspeedway racing, not at all. There's plenty of cooling air ducted to the brakes and the rest of the suspension components can also act like a heat sink since they are directly attached to the brakes and wheel. On the other hand, the tires are always generating heat whenever the car is moving, and especially in turns. Heat is the enemy of tire life and whatever can be done to take away more heat from the tire will help. That being said, I sure wouldn't want hydrogen in my tires. to overheated brakes, heating the wheels to the point of causing the tires to blow out or burn, not from heat generated by the tires themselves. Slowing a 747 from 180 mph to taxi speed is hardly the same thing as bleeding off 40 or 50 mph from a super light race car. There's a whole different set of braking requirements, and aircraft brakes are in many cases under engineered since they depend so much on engine braking to slow down. Steve |
#4
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Trailer Tires Overheating.
Steven Shelikoff, the racing expert wrote:
Actually, the area of the wheel exposed to the gas in a race car tire is pretty large compared to the area of the tire since they are wide and low profile. Not in all types of racing. Actually, in some types, the narrower the better, less contact area, less friction. Take a salt flat racer, for instance. Though it doesn't apply much to boat trailer tires, the heat conductivity of the gas would work against tire cooling in the case of race cars and aircraft since it would serve to increase the rate of tire heating in heavy brake application. Many aircraft tire failures are due Of course it all depends on the type of racing. During most racing like road racing, twisty corners, etc, heavy braking is applied but for very short durations. Superspeedway racing, not at all. Are you really trying to say that on superspeedways, they don't use brakes at all? That's pretty stupid. They actually use brakes as opposed to letting off the throttle, trying to keep the enginer RPM's up. It takes forever to get those restictor plate engines back up to speed. They do, however, use completely different brake setups, smaller rotors, pads. These smaller, thinner rotors will get quite hot, quite quickly. There's plenty of cooling air ducted to the brakes and the rest of the suspension components can also act like a heat sink since they are directly attached to the brakes and wheel. On the other hand, the tires are always generating heat whenever the car is moving, and especially in turns. Heat is the enemy of tire life and whatever can be done to take away more heat from the tire will help. That being said, I sure wouldn't want hydrogen in my tires. Now that I can agree with. |
#5
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Trailer Tires Overheating.
"basskisser" wrote in message om... They actually use brakes as opposed to letting off the throttle, trying to keep the enginer RPM's up. It takes forever to get those restictor plate engines back up to speed. Can you explain that statement? Unless your referring to the go karts you rent at the amusment center I don't understand how you can maintain engine RPMs and slow the car down. Automatic transmission?? Hmmmm..... Seen it on off road cars, I wasn't aware of it being very common on any sort of track or pavement vehicles. Without some sort of a slip clutch or torque converter, the engine RPM is going to be directly related to the velocity of the car. Rod |
#6
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Trailer Tires Overheating.
"Rod McInnis" wrote in message ... "basskisser" wrote in message om... They actually use brakes as opposed to letting off the throttle, trying to keep the enginer RPM's up. It takes forever to get those restictor plate engines back up to speed. Can you explain that statement? Unless your referring to the go karts you rent at the amusment center I don't understand how you can maintain engine RPMs and slow the car down. Automatic transmission?? Hmmmm..... Seen it on off road cars, I wasn't aware of it being very common on any sort of track or pavement vehicles. Without some sort of a slip clutch or torque converter, the engine RPM is going to be directly related to the velocity of the car. Rod He is confused. Brakes are noy used at the 2 NASCAR restrictor plate tracks (Daytona & Talladega). They simply run wide open through the turns on these tracks since there is enough banking (30 degrees) that they do not have to back off at all. |
#7
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Trailer Tires Overheating.
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#9
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Trailer Tires Overheating.
"basskisser" wrote in message om... Pure horse****!!!!! They do, indeed, keep the throttle wide open, but they DO use the brakes, and quite a lot. They use the brakes as opposed to letting up on the throttle when drafting, to avoid loosing engine rpms from what is commonly refered to as "lifting". I ask you again: What type of connection do they use between the engine and the wheels that allows the engine RPMs to stay high while the car slows down? Rod |
#10
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Trailer Tires Overheating.
On 5 Nov 2003 04:41:14 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:
(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ... On 3 Nov 2003 05:02:04 -0800, (basskisser) wrote: Steven Shelikoff, the racing expert wrote: Actually, the area of the wheel exposed to the gas in a race car tire is pretty large compared to the area of the tire since they are wide and low profile. Not in all types of racing. Actually, in some types, the narrower the better, less contact area, less friction. Take a salt flat racer, for instance. Yeah, and bicycle racing. Though it doesn't apply much to boat trailer tires, the heat conductivity of the gas would work against tire cooling in the case of race cars and aircraft since it would serve to increase the rate of tire heating in heavy brake application. Many aircraft tire failures are due Of course it all depends on the type of racing. During most racing like road racing, twisty corners, etc, heavy braking is applied but for very short durations. Superspeedway racing, not at all. Are you really trying to say that on superspeedways, they don't use brakes at all? That's pretty stupid. They actually use brakes as opposed to letting off the throttle, trying to keep the enginer RPM's up. It takes forever to get those restictor plate engines back up to speed. They do, however, use completely different brake setups, smaller rotors, pads. These smaller, thinner rotors will get quite hot, quite quickly. Sorry to dissapoint you but at NASCAR restrictor plate races like at Talladega and Daytona, the driver will almost without exception have the gas pedal to the floor and not touch the brakes all day. Pure horse****!!!!! They do, indeed, keep the throttle wide open, but they DO use the brakes, and quite a lot. They use the brakes as opposed to letting up on the throttle when drafting, to avoid loosing engine rpms from what is commonly refered to as "lifting". So, to say that they "not touch the brakes all day" is, again, false. As usual, you need to do a little more research. But as usual, even when you learn that you're wrong, you won't believe it and try to put some sort of spin on it to avoid admitting you don't know what the hell you're talking about. They even tape up the brake vents for more downforce since there's little need to cool the brakes. Actually, almost all teams don't even use brake ducting on superspeedways, if that is what you mean by "brake vents". They don't use brake ducting because they don't use he brakes. If they used the brakes "quite a lot" as you claim, without any ducting, then Rick would be right in that the brakes would melt the tires. That's the exact opposite from short track and road course races where they use the brakes so much that they need blowers to cool the them since the vents don't provide enough cooling. They use a beefy braking setup for those races since they have twice the power available so there's much more to overcome braking losses, and they really need the brakes. The "beefy" brakes are because they have to slow the car from say, 130mph in the straight at Bristol, down to 60mph in turns 1 and 2, in the shortest amount of time. It's all about being able to hold that 130mph until the last possible moment, slamming on the brakes until the car takes a "set" (meaning it goes from pushing, or understeer, to loose, or oversteer.), then being able to get back into the throttle. Of course, I'm sure, you are an expert, as always!!!! Oh, and your Nascar tire diatribe is wrong, and stupid. You're too funny. Are you sure you're not Jax? Steve |
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