On 1/20/2014 4:40 PM, amdx wrote:
On 1/20/2014 3:18 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 1/20/14, 4:14 PM, Hank wrote:
On 1/20/2014 3:40 PM, amdx wrote:
On 1/20/2014 2:17 PM, Hank wrote:
On 1/20/2014 1:09 PM, amdx wrote:

I think your numbers are slightly exaggerated, but not a lot.
Payback
should certainly be less than one your for most people.

I don't know how you arrived at this number but I'm in agreement with
your conclusion

Math.

Where did I lose you.

I used the cost of a kWh as 13 cents.
I assumed the new bulbs use about 10% as much energy as the old style.
If you saved $50, you must have spend $55 before and $5 now.
Mikek

Awesome.


All this higher math...I need to find my college abacus.

You're not that old, you probably had a TI-30.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TI-30 Note the Red LEDs.
Mikek


I had a TI-30. I used it until I got an HP calculator (forgotten the
model number) and had to learn reverse polish.

On 1/20/2014 6:19 PM, Hank wrote:
On 1/20/2014 4:40 PM, amdx wrote:
On 1/20/2014 3:18 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 1/20/14, 4:14 PM, Hank wrote:
On 1/20/2014 3:40 PM, amdx wrote:
On 1/20/2014 2:17 PM, Hank wrote:
On 1/20/2014 1:09 PM, amdx wrote:

I think your numbers are slightly exaggerated, but not a lot.
Payback
should certainly be less than one your for most people.

I don't know how you arrived at this number but I'm in agreement with
your conclusion

Math.

Where did I lose you.

I used the cost of a kWh as 13 cents.
I assumed the new bulbs use about 10% as much energy as the old style.
If you saved $50, you must have spend $55 before and $5 now.
Mikek

Awesome.


All this higher math...I need to find my college abacus.

You're not that old, you probably had a TI-30.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TI-30 Note the Red LEDs.

Mikek


Nah. He's older than that. He had one of those K&E slide rules.

Hey. I have one of those too. In fact it's sitting right here on my
desk. I was fooling around with it a couple of days ago.

On 1/20/2014 3:26 PM, Hank wrote:

On 1/20/2014 1:10 PM, KC wrote:

On 1/20/2014 12:52 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


The ones I recently installed (Cree) are rated at 800 lumens (ea.) Big
difference.

Yeah, but it's still only equal to a typical 60 watt bulb... I need the
lumens typical of a 100 watt incandescent (13-1500 lumens) to make a
bulb worth while and I can't find that in a standard base, cfl or
similar.... so far...

If you used a little ingenuity you could pair up 2 800 lumen led's and
have the equivalent of a 100 watt or better incand. Forget the CFLs.
They are worthless, and dangerous.


The other day I happened to go down to one of the finished rooms in the
basement (I rarely go down there for anything) and I thought a strobe
light was running.

A certain person ... not mentioning any names ... had replaced a
conventional bulb in a pole lamp with one of those non-dimmable CFL
things made in China. The pole lamp has a built in dimmer. Stupid
thing was flashing on and off and felt a lot hotter than normal when I
removed it. In the trash it went ... sorry to the environmentalists who
want you to dispose of them as hazardous waste.

On 1/20/2014 3:50 PM, amdx wrote:
On 1/20/2014 2:32 PM, wrote:


the EPA calc is $7.23 a year to run it.
That is less than 60 cents a month.

Do you know what the EPA uses as the cost for aKwh?
How many hours per day do they use?
Mikek



IIRC, the Cree packaging advertises a cost of about $1.46 a year to
operate but I am sure that is based on the best, optimistic calculation.

The real answer is probably somewhere in the middle of the two estimates.

On 1/20/14, 6:22 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/20/2014 3:53 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 1/20/14, 3:41 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 15:02:11 -0500, Hank wrote:

On 1/20/2014 12:43 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 11:40:03 -0500, Hank wrote:

On 1/20/2014 11:22 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 08:25:35 -0500, Hank wrote:

I'm saving about $50 a month on my electric bill without changing
any
thing except light bulbs

Saving $50 a month?
Bull**** ... unless your house is lit like a used car lot all the
time.
That is 333 KWH per month (at 15c a KWH)
Assuming you turn the lights off when you go to bed that is about
2000
watts of light you save every HOUR (based on 5,5 hours between
sundown
and bed time)

You really had 2500 watts of light on all evening? (your LEDs and
CFLs
still draw something around 20%)

I think you have fallen for the hype.


I have 10 lamps that burn dusk to dawn. We use some lighting during
the
daytime also.

I have spreadsheeted my KWH, Cost per KWK, and total cost. I'm
comfortable with what I stated

10 lights from dusk to dawn? Let me guess, the Stalag 17 look .

If you are burning 11,000 watt hours of light a day we can see your
house from space.
That is as much as my whole house air handler strip heaters use when I
have the heat on for an hour running full blast.

You need to reevaluate your lighting plan.

Are you using a calculator, or are you counting on your fingers?

A calculator.
$50 at 0.15 a KWH is 333.33333333 KWH
Divided by 30 is 11.111111 KWH a day

The only variable is what is your cost for power, more accurately what
is the incremental cost, minus the fixed charges that you pay anyway.
I bet it is less than 15 cents ... unless you are in California.
I pay 13 cents top line to bottom line and using less power would
actually make that more per KWH because the fixed charges stay the
same..



The last time I looked, the rates around here were 8.15 cents to 9.74
cents, so, you're paying about a third more for electric than we are.
Interesting. Must be higher quality electricity.



Isn't Gregg in Florida? My experience with electrical power in Florida
was that it sucked. Constant brown outs and voltage dips.

That's one thing I can say that's good up here in MA. Our electric
service is excellent. I monitor the voltage regularly, especially
during heavy load periods in the summer. Voltage stays smack on 123
volts regardless of load and we have three large AC units plus a 150,000
BTU pool heater running (when required).


Since we had our genny installed, we haven't had a power outage that
lasts more than a couple of minutes. We take credit for that!

On 1/20/14, 5:32 PM, amdx wrote:
On 1/20/2014 3:46 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 1/20/14, 4:40 PM, amdx wrote:
On 1/20/2014 3:18 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 1/20/14, 4:14 PM, Hank wrote:
On 1/20/2014 3:40 PM, amdx wrote:
On 1/20/2014 2:17 PM, Hank wrote:
On 1/20/2014 1:09 PM, amdx wrote:

I think your numbers are slightly exaggerated, but not a lot.
Payback
should certainly be less than one your for most people.

I don't know how you arrived at this number but I'm in agreement
with
your conclusion

Math.


Where did I lose you.

I used the cost of a kWh as 13 cents.
I assumed the new bulbs use about 10% as much energy as the old
style.
If you saved $50, you must have spend $55 before and $5 now.
Mikek

Awesome.


All this higher math...I need to find my college abacus.

You're not that old, you probably had a TI-30.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TI-30 Note the Red LEDs.
Mikek


I believe the HP-30 and most other scientific calculators appeared after
I had received my M.A. We had a couple of clunky desktop calcs in the
math labs and our trusty K&E sliderules. In those days, you actually had
to know how to do the math, not that I was ever a whiz at math, but I
did ok.

I apologize.

You are that old. :-)

The T1-30 was my first calculator I got for use in my electronics classes.
Mikek



I watched the first shipment of dirt being shipped.

On 1/20/2014 5:19 PM, Hank wrote:
On 1/20/2014 4:40 PM, amdx wrote:
On 1/20/2014 3:18 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 1/20/14, 4:14 PM, Hank wrote:
On 1/20/2014 3:40 PM, amdx wrote:
On 1/20/2014 2:17 PM, Hank wrote:
On 1/20/2014 1:09 PM, amdx wrote:

I think your numbers are slightly exaggerated, but not a lot.
Payback
should certainly be less than one your for most people.

I don't know how you arrived at this number but I'm in agreement with
your conclusion

Math.

Where did I lose you.

I used the cost of a kWh as 13 cents.
I assumed the new bulbs use about 10% as much energy as the old style.
If you saved $50, you must have spend $55 before and $5 now.
Mikek

Awesome.


All this higher math...I need to find my college abacus.

You're not that old, you probably had a TI-30.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TI-30 Note the Red LEDs.
Mikek
Nah. He's older than that. He had one of those K&E slide rules.

Slide Rule, what's that, sounds like something political :-)
Mikek

PS, I'm old enough to know what a slide rule is.

amdx wrote:
I just realized that the gov't. ban on incands. was created to guide the
thrifty among us to stop making phony excuses for an inferior product.
I'm saving about $50 a month on my electric bill without changing any
thing except light bulbs. And that's not counting replacement cost. My
replacement cost last year was $10. (one bulb)
You need to relinquish your "Luddite" status. There are those here more
deserving.

Hank, I need to see you back that up.
I'm going to compare 100 watt incandescent against a 10 watt new fangled
low energy lighting device.
Assume you were using $55 for light per month and now you use $5.5.
55-5.5 = $49.5 or your $50 savings.

In order spend $55 on lights, @ $0.13 cents per kWh, you would need to
use 423kWhs. I'll assume an average of 10hrs per day per light for
convenience. That's 1 kWh per day of bulb usage, or 30 kWhs per month.
423kwhs / 30kWhs = 14 bulbs on 10 hrs per day for 30 days.

If your buying the bulbs, lets assume $5 per bulb times 14 bulbs, that
$90, so your payback is two months.


I think your numbers are slightly exaggerated, but not a lot. Payback
should certainly be less than one your for most people.

There only two, in my home know I don't believe I use that much light in
my house, I'd be surprised if I use 6 bulbs 5 hrs per day, but not 14
bulbs 10 hrs per day.

Ok, no need to back it up, it is better than I thought.

Anyone feeling energetic, can check my numbers and assumptions.

I'm all switched over to CFLs and one LED.

Hey turn that light off if your not using it!!

Mikek

I have an electric meter on my water heater.
When my daughter went to college the electrical use went down by
1/2. I thought it was a fluke the first month, but it continued
to stay that low.

BTW, have you seen the water heaters that use a heat pump?
http://energy.gov/energysaver/articl...-water-heaters

Price shock,
http://www.lowes.com/Plumbing/Water-.../N-1z0zp1j/pl#!

My contribution to thread drift.

Actually price is not that bad these days. Look at what a standard water
heater costs now. All this low emission, safety stuff. Las one I replaced
was about $700 for a 50 gallon gas.

On 1/20/2014 7:03 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 1/20/14, 6:22 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/20/2014 3:53 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 1/20/14, 3:41 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 15:02:11 -0500, Hank wrote:

On 1/20/2014 12:43 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 11:40:03 -0500, Hank wrote:

On 1/20/2014 11:22 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 08:25:35 -0500, Hank
wrote:

I'm saving about $50 a month on my electric bill without changing
any
thing except light bulbs

Saving $50 a month?
Bull**** ... unless your house is lit like a used car lot all the
time.
That is 333 KWH per month (at 15c a KWH)
Assuming you turn the lights off when you go to bed that is about
2000
watts of light you save every HOUR (based on 5,5 hours between
sundown
and bed time)

You really had 2500 watts of light on all evening? (your LEDs and
CFLs
still draw something around 20%)

I think you have fallen for the hype.


I have 10 lamps that burn dusk to dawn. We use some lighting during
the
daytime also.

I have spreadsheeted my KWH, Cost per KWK, and total cost. I'm
comfortable with what I stated

10 lights from dusk to dawn? Let me guess, the Stalag 17 look .

If you are burning 11,000 watt hours of light a day we can see your
house from space.
That is as much as my whole house air handler strip heaters use
when I
have the heat on for an hour running full blast.

You need to reevaluate your lighting plan.

Are you using a calculator, or are you counting on your fingers?

A calculator.
$50 at 0.15 a KWH is 333.33333333 KWH
Divided by 30 is 11.111111 KWH a day

The only variable is what is your cost for power, more accurately what
is the incremental cost, minus the fixed charges that you pay anyway.
I bet it is less than 15 cents ... unless you are in California.
I pay 13 cents top line to bottom line and using less power would
actually make that more per KWH because the fixed charges stay the
same..



The last time I looked, the rates around here were 8.15 cents to 9.74
cents, so, you're paying about a third more for electric than we are.
Interesting. Must be higher quality electricity.



Isn't Gregg in Florida? My experience with electrical power in Florida
was that it sucked. Constant brown outs and voltage dips.

That's one thing I can say that's good up here in MA. Our electric
service is excellent. I monitor the voltage regularly, especially
during heavy load periods in the summer. Voltage stays smack on 123
volts regardless of load and we have three large AC units plus a 150,000
BTU pool heater running (when required).


Since we had our genny installed, we haven't had a power outage that
lasts more than a couple of minutes. We take credit for that!


A complete power outage is one thing. Storms and accidents cause them.
Power is off and no damage can occur to expensive appliances or
electrical units.

I am talking about power that remains on but the voltage droops to
levels that cause excessive current to be drawn when something like an
air conditioning compressor starts. I saw the normal 120 vac drop to as
low as 105 vac in Florida, which means the primary service of 240 volts
that the AC units run on was drooping to about 210 volts. That's damn
close to the +/- 15 percent most appliances will tolerate.

On 1/20/2014 6:23 PM, Hank wrote:
On 1/20/2014 4:47 PM, amdx wrote:
On 1/20/2014 3:24 PM, Hank wrote:
On 1/20/2014 4:15 PM, KC wrote:
Sure, but I don't want my lamps to look like SteamPunk... Just want
to put lamps up, that lamp....


What is steampunk

picture of steampunk type items.

http://tinyurl.com/ksqncbk

http://tinyurl.com/n2lqr9x

http://tinyurl.com/ktxb6vb

Mikek






Oh, an early guzzy. Got it.

lol