On 1/21/2014 1:34 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 10:27:40 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/21/2014 10:11 AM, Hank wrote:
On 1/21/2014 9:25 AM, amdx wrote:

How else would you do it?


According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, 13 percent of
residential electrical energy use is for lighting.

The same agency states that the US average monthly bill for residential
electricity for June, July and August of 2013 was $395. Seems a
little high to me, but again, it's the average for the whole nation.

So, assuming those numbers are close, 13 percent of $395 is $51.25.

Switching to LED lighting that consumes a fraction of the power would
have a serious impact on that cost. So, Hank's numbers don't sound
totally out of the ballpark.


My electric bills for the past year:


Payment Date Payment Amount
01/17/2014 $142.69
12/16/2013 $119.33
11/18/2013 $112.94
10/16/2013 $123.35
09/16/2013 $146.15
08/30/2013 $139.61
08/02/2013 $174.59
06/28/2013 $133.67
06/05/2013 $89.89
04/29/2013 $99.16
04/29/2013 $107.83
04/01/2013 $100.91

Average is $124.18. Wow. You've improved my disposition immensely with that post!


Ha! We pay that just for the horse barn that's on it's own meter.

On 1/21/2014 1:53 PM, Hank wrote:
On 1/21/2014 1:44 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 12:18:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/21/2014 11:43 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 03:51:13 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

You can't make electricity cheaper than you can buy it.

By a factor of at least 5x. It can be way more for an old technology
generator.

A 5kw generator you might find at the home store with a Briggs engine
and a regular alternator will burn at least a gallon and a half an
hour. That ends up being about a buck a KWH.



That's what I discovered quickly with the 12kw generator I used in
Florida following Wilma.

The first day I ran it for about 6 hours (or less) and went through
about 8 gallons of gas. That's when I started recalculating things and
just used the little Honda.

The problem with them is that they have to run at 3600 RPM regardless of
load in order to generate 60 cycles. The inverter types like the Honda
can run at idle and still generate up to 6 amps of 120 volts (EU-2000).
If the load increases like when the refrigerator compressor kicked on,
the Honda would temporarily increase speed but then drop back to idle.


These two go on my Christmas list.

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...ompliant/34961


http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...ompliant/43844



You have to buy those guys in pairs? How come?


He wants to be able to double the available power if he needs it. The
one I have can be connected to another EU-2000 with a cable that puts
both of them in phase with each other but you need to feed the ouputs to
a common receptacle. The newer "Companion" version that John is
looking at adds a 30 amp outlet that the older ones like mine don't have.

On 1/21/2014 2:05 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/21/2014 1:53 PM, Hank wrote:
On 1/21/2014 1:44 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 12:18:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/21/2014 11:43 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 03:51:13 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

You can't make electricity cheaper than you can buy it.

By a factor of at least 5x. It can be way more for an old technology
generator.

A 5kw generator you might find at the home store with a Briggs engine
and a regular alternator will burn at least a gallon and a half an
hour. That ends up being about a buck a KWH.



That's what I discovered quickly with the 12kw generator I used in
Florida following Wilma.

The first day I ran it for about 6 hours (or less) and went through
about 8 gallons of gas. That's when I started recalculating things
and
just used the little Honda.

The problem with them is that they have to run at 3600 RPM
regardless of
load in order to generate 60 cycles. The inverter types like the
Honda
can run at idle and still generate up to 6 amps of 120 volts (EU-2000).
If the load increases like when the refrigerator compressor kicked on,
the Honda would temporarily increase speed but then drop back to idle.


These two go on my Christmas list.

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...ompliant/34961



http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...ompliant/43844




You have to buy those guys in pairs? How come?


He wants to be able to double the available power if he needs it. The
one I have can be connected to another EU-2000 with a cable that puts
both of them in phase with each other but you need to feed the ouputs to
a common receptacle. The newer "Companion" version that John is
looking at adds a 30 amp outlet that the older ones like mine don't have.


Ahhh. I think I see his motive.

On 1/21/2014 2:12 PM, Hank wrote:
On 1/21/2014 2:05 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/21/2014 1:53 PM, Hank wrote:
On 1/21/2014 1:44 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 12:18:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/21/2014 11:43 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 03:51:13 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

You can't make electricity cheaper than you can buy it.

By a factor of at least 5x. It can be way more for an old technology
generator.

A 5kw generator you might find at the home store with a Briggs engine
and a regular alternator will burn at least a gallon and a half an
hour. That ends up being about a buck a KWH.



That's what I discovered quickly with the 12kw generator I used in
Florida following Wilma.

The first day I ran it for about 6 hours (or less) and went through
about 8 gallons of gas. That's when I started recalculating things
and
just used the little Honda.

The problem with them is that they have to run at 3600 RPM
regardless of
load in order to generate 60 cycles. The inverter types like the
Honda
can run at idle and still generate up to 6 amps of 120 volts
(EU-2000).
If the load increases like when the refrigerator compressor kicked on,
the Honda would temporarily increase speed but then drop back to idle.


These two go on my Christmas list.

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...ompliant/34961




http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...ompliant/43844





You have to buy those guys in pairs? How come?


He wants to be able to double the available power if he needs it. The
one I have can be connected to another EU-2000 with a cable that puts
both of them in phase with each other but you need to feed the ouputs to
a common receptacle. The newer "Companion" version that John is
looking at adds a 30 amp outlet that the older ones like mine don't have.


Ahhh. I think I see his motive.

Yeah, if you can get over the sticker shock, it's not a bad setup. If
you only need up to 15 amps, just run one generator. If you need more,
fire up the other one.

On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 13:53:21 -0500, Hank wrote:

On 1/21/2014 1:44 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 12:18:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/21/2014 11:43 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 03:51:13 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

You can't make electricity cheaper than you can buy it.

By a factor of at least 5x. It can be way more for an old technology
generator.

A 5kw generator you might find at the home store with a Briggs engine
and a regular alternator will burn at least a gallon and a half an
hour. That ends up being about a buck a KWH.



That's what I discovered quickly with the 12kw generator I used in
Florida following Wilma.

The first day I ran it for about 6 hours (or less) and went through
about 8 gallons of gas. That's when I started recalculating things and
just used the little Honda.

The problem with them is that they have to run at 3600 RPM regardless of
load in order to generate 60 cycles. The inverter types like the Honda
can run at idle and still generate up to 6 amps of 120 volts (EU-2000).
If the load increases like when the refrigerator compressor kicked on,
the Honda would temporarily increase speed but then drop back to idle.


These two go on my Christmas list.

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...ompliant/34961

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...ompliant/43844


You have to buy those guys in pairs? How come?

You don't have to buy two. The first one, by itself, is great for light loads, but with the second
I'd have a 30amp capability, which would totally power the 5th wheel.

I'd be very happy to get the first this Christmas, and the second for my birthday. Spread that
around. Since my birthday is income tax day, many folks will have lots of money to get rid of.

On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 14:12:08 -0500, Hank wrote:

On 1/21/2014 2:05 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/21/2014 1:53 PM, Hank wrote:
On 1/21/2014 1:44 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 12:18:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/21/2014 11:43 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 03:51:13 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

You can't make electricity cheaper than you can buy it.

By a factor of at least 5x. It can be way more for an old technology
generator.

A 5kw generator you might find at the home store with a Briggs engine
and a regular alternator will burn at least a gallon and a half an
hour. That ends up being about a buck a KWH.



That's what I discovered quickly with the 12kw generator I used in
Florida following Wilma.

The first day I ran it for about 6 hours (or less) and went through
about 8 gallons of gas. That's when I started recalculating things
and
just used the little Honda.

The problem with them is that they have to run at 3600 RPM
regardless of
load in order to generate 60 cycles. The inverter types like the
Honda
can run at idle and still generate up to 6 amps of 120 volts (EU-2000).
If the load increases like when the refrigerator compressor kicked on,
the Honda would temporarily increase speed but then drop back to idle.


These two go on my Christmas list.

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...ompliant/34961



http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...ompliant/43844




You have to buy those guys in pairs? How come?


He wants to be able to double the available power if he needs it. The
one I have can be connected to another EU-2000 with a cable that puts
both of them in phase with each other but you need to feed the ouputs to
a common receptacle. The newer "Companion" version that John is
looking at adds a 30 amp outlet that the older ones like mine don't have.


Ahhh. I think I see his motive.

Yup. Sly, don't you think.

On 1/21/2014 1:44 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 12:18:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/21/2014 11:43 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 03:51:13 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

You can't make electricity cheaper than you can buy it.

By a factor of at least 5x. It can be way more for an old technology
generator.

A 5kw generator you might find at the home store with a Briggs engine
and a regular alternator will burn at least a gallon and a half an
hour. That ends up being about a buck a KWH.



That's what I discovered quickly with the 12kw generator I used in
Florida following Wilma.

The first day I ran it for about 6 hours (or less) and went through
about 8 gallons of gas. That's when I started recalculating things and
just used the little Honda.

The problem with them is that they have to run at 3600 RPM regardless of
load in order to generate 60 cycles. The inverter types like the Honda
can run at idle and still generate up to 6 amps of 120 volts (EU-2000).
If the load increases like when the refrigerator compressor kicked on,
the Honda would temporarily increase speed but then drop back to idle.


These two go on my Christmas list.

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...ompliant/34961

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...ompliant/43844



That Honda is incredible... so quiet...

On 1/20/2014 10:18 PM, amdx wrote:
On 1/20/2014 9:47 PM, wrote:

Here are my bill for last year.
Jan $251 1985
Feb $224 1756
Mar $220 1725
April $198 1536
May $201 1561
June $377 3057
July $369 2985
Aug $401 3254
Sept $374 3025
Oct $332 2669
Nov $222 1733

June, July, Aug and Sept, are a little surprise to me. We have a
business that uses 12 chest freezers at our home, those months
are hot and the freezers are in an outdoor covered building. Our
electric bill usually runs pretty high those months. I've had
$500+ electric bills. Must have been a cooler summer.
I get letters from the power company telling me I'm in the 99th
percentile of usage and here are the ways to save on electricity.
Then in Nov, I get the usage letter and they tell me how I have
dropped down to the 70th percentile :-)
Mike

Speaking of my letter, I just got the mail and it has "THE LETTER",
telling me, in the last 3 months "You used 96% more electricity than
similar homes" This month I rank 92 out of 100 similar homes. #1 is the
most efficient. They say "Your rank is improving. Great Job!" I was at
97 in the previous ranking. Next thing you know they' will be here to
see what I'm growing. :-)
When I do my taxes I'll pull the records together and subtract out my
business use. See where I really rank.
Mikek

On 1/21/2014 5:16 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 13:34:31 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:

On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 10:27:40 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/21/2014 10:11 AM, Hank wrote:
On 1/21/2014 9:25 AM, amdx wrote:

How else would you do it?


According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, 13 percent of
residential electrical energy use is for lighting.

The same agency states that the US average monthly bill for residential
electricity for June, July and August of 2013 was $395. Seems a
little high to me, but again, it's the average for the whole nation.

So, assuming those numbers are close, 13 percent of $395 is $51.25.

Switching to LED lighting that consumes a fraction of the power would
have a serious impact on that cost. So, Hank's numbers don't sound
totally out of the ballpark.


My electric bills for the past year:


Payment Date Payment Amount
01/17/2014 $142.69
12/16/2013 $119.33
11/18/2013 $112.94
10/16/2013 $123.35
09/16/2013 $146.15
08/30/2013 $139.61
08/02/2013 $174.59
06/28/2013 $133.67
06/05/2013 $89.89
04/29/2013 $99.16
04/29/2013 $107.83
04/01/2013 $100.91

Average is $124.18. Wow. You've improved my disposition immensely with that post!

Do you also have a water bill and a gas bill? Add those to the
electric bill for an apples to apples comparison.


Apples to apples of what? We were talking about electricity costs and
specifically the cost for lighting.

amdx wrote:
On 1/20/2014 9:28 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 14:50:35 -0600, amdx wrote:

On 1/20/2014 2:32 PM, wrote:


the EPA calc is $7.23 a year to run it.
That is less than 60 cents a month.

Do you know what the EPA uses as the cost for aKwh?
How many hours per day do they use?
Mikek

I don't know and I didn't have much luck looking. I see a lot of
calculators but nothing about how they get the number they print on
the box.

Obviously if you are getting that cut rate power Harry gets the number
will be different than you get with the gold plated 45 cent California
power.


Interesting comparison of California to Texas.
http://www.youtube.com/embed/4CDFxeB7Y-s
Mikek

We have tiered power usage here. More you use, the higher per KWH. Lots
of that is the fault of the state legislature, when they deregulated
power, they deregulated the wholesale and kept regulation on retail. Made
PG&E sell a lot of their generating capacity. Calpine bought a bunch of
it. Then raised the wholesale rate to make a killing and pay off the loans
to buy the capacity. Another law passed at the last minute without
reading. PG&E went in to bankruptcy because they were required by the
state PUC to sell power below cost. The bankruptcy court slapped the PUC
and told them they can not require a company to sell product at less than
cost! My power bill with 2 of us and a pool, runs about $200 a month. But
we rarely use the AC. Last month with kids and grand kids here, and
extreme cold, the bill went to $420. Would have to dig out the bill to see
the KWH. But probably kicked us in to the higher KWH costs.