wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 19:03:48 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:


Since we had our genny installed, we haven't had a power outage that
lasts more than a couple of minutes. We take credit for that!

Me too, since I bought a generator, I have not had anything worth
going out and flipping the transfer switch.
(not automatic)

I am glad I saved that $5000 ;-)

My Yamaha generator has not been out of the box in 2 years.

On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 17:16:37 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 13:34:31 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:

On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 10:27:40 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/21/2014 10:11 AM, Hank wrote:
On 1/21/2014 9:25 AM, amdx wrote:

How else would you do it?


According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, 13 percent of
residential electrical energy use is for lighting.

The same agency states that the US average monthly bill for residential
electricity for June, July and August of 2013 was $395. Seems a
little high to me, but again, it's the average for the whole nation.

So, assuming those numbers are close, 13 percent of $395 is $51.25.

Switching to LED lighting that consumes a fraction of the power would
have a serious impact on that cost. So, Hank's numbers don't sound
totally out of the ballpark.


My electric bills for the past year:


Payment Date Payment Amount
01/17/2014 $142.69
12/16/2013 $119.33
11/18/2013 $112.94
10/16/2013 $123.35
09/16/2013 $146.15
08/30/2013 $139.61
08/02/2013 $174.59
06/28/2013 $133.67
06/05/2013 $89.89
04/29/2013 $99.16
04/29/2013 $107.83
04/01/2013 $100.91

Average is $124.18. Wow. You've improved my disposition immensely with that post!

Do you also have a water bill and a gas bill? Add those to the
electric bill for an apples to apples comparison.

No, he said, "...US average monthly bill for residential
electricity..." Do you imagine none of those had gas or water? Why would water consumption affect my
electric bill? Yes, I have gas, but my gas bill wouldn't be affected by LED light bulbs. In fact,
since they burn much cooler than incandescent, my gas bill would probably go up in the winter. But
maybe I'd use less electricity in the summer for the air conditioner.

On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 19:48:56 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 19:15:58 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/21/2014 5:16 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 13:34:31 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:

On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 10:27:40 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/21/2014 10:11 AM, Hank wrote:
On 1/21/2014 9:25 AM, amdx wrote:

How else would you do it?


According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, 13 percent of
residential electrical energy use is for lighting.

The same agency states that the US average monthly bill for residential
electricity for June, July and August of 2013 was $395. Seems a
little high to me, but again, it's the average for the whole nation.

So, assuming those numbers are close, 13 percent of $395 is $51.25.

Switching to LED lighting that consumes a fraction of the power would
have a serious impact on that cost. So, Hank's numbers don't sound
totally out of the ballpark.


My electric bills for the past year:


Payment Date Payment Amount
01/17/2014 $142.69
12/16/2013 $119.33
11/18/2013 $112.94
10/16/2013 $123.35
09/16/2013 $146.15
08/30/2013 $139.61
08/02/2013 $174.59
06/28/2013 $133.67
06/05/2013 $89.89
04/29/2013 $99.16
04/29/2013 $107.83
04/01/2013 $100.91

Average is $124.18. Wow. You've improved my disposition immensely with that post!

Do you also have a water bill and a gas bill? Add those to the
electric bill for an apples to apples comparison.


Apples to apples of what? We were talking about electricity costs and
specifically the cost for lighting.


If all he posts is the dollar total of his bill, we need to know what
is in that bill to have it mean anything.
If he is heating everything with nat gas and the city is pumping his
water, he should have a low electric bill.

Nationally I'm sure there are many in the same situation. I don't pump my own water and I heat with
natural gas. But so do millions of other who figure into the 'US average'.

On 1/21/2014 10:09 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 21:45:51 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:


Nationally I'm sure there are many in the same situation. I don't pump my own water and I heat with
natural gas. But so do millions of other who figure into the 'US average'.

Those must be the ones who "use 30% of their electricity on lights"
(or whatever number you want to use.

I would also believe it is city thinking that most people have nat gas
coming to their house. When I was in Maryland, the gas line stopped
about 10 miles outside the beltway going South.
They may have expanded that by now.



I think you've missed something Gregg. Where did natural gas come into
the discussion?

Also, nobody said anybody uses 30% of their electricity on lights.
I offered a stat that said *13%* of residential electricity is used for
lighting.

On 1/21/2014 10:04 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 21:43:12 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:

On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 17:16:37 -0500, wrote:


Do you also have a water bill and a gas bill? Add those to the
electric bill for an apples to apples comparison.

No, he said, "...US average monthly bill for residential
electricity..." Do you imagine none of those had gas or water? Why would water consumption affect my
electric bill? Yes, I have gas, but my gas bill wouldn't be affected by LED light bulbs. In fact,
since they burn much cooler than incandescent, my gas bill would probably go up in the winter. But
maybe I'd use less electricity in the summer for the air conditioner.

I was just trying to point out that if you heat air and water with gas
and the city pumps your water, the bill will be lower.

I run 2 water pumps for every drop of water that comes into the house
an electric water heater, dryer and whatever heat we use,

If I threw away every lamp in my house and used coleman lanterns, it
wouldn't save me $30 a month off my electric bill. That is 580 watts
dawn to dusk. I wouldn't have that much light on of a stampede of
bison ran around my house and tripped every motion sensor ... and they
would all turn off 4 minutes later.

I think this thread suffered topic drift. No point in continuing.

On 1/21/2014 10:19 PM, Hank wrote:
On 1/21/2014 10:04 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 21:43:12 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:

On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 17:16:37 -0500, wrote:


Do you also have a water bill and a gas bill? Add those to the
electric bill for an apples to apples comparison.

No, he said, "...US average monthly bill for residential
electricity..." Do you imagine none of those had gas or water? Why
would water consumption affect my
electric bill? Yes, I have gas, but my gas bill wouldn't be affected
by LED light bulbs. In fact,
since they burn much cooler than incandescent, my gas bill would
probably go up in the winter. But
maybe I'd use less electricity in the summer for the air conditioner.

I was just trying to point out that if you heat air and water with gas
and the city pumps your water, the bill will be lower.

I run 2 water pumps for every drop of water that comes into the house
an electric water heater, dryer and whatever heat we use,

If I threw away every lamp in my house and used coleman lanterns, it
wouldn't save me $30 a month off my electric bill. That is 580 watts
dawn to dusk. I wouldn't have that much light on of a stampede of
bison ran around my house and tripped every motion sensor ... and they
would all turn off 4 minutes later.

I think this thread suffered topic drift. No point in continuing.


Yup

On 1/21/2014 10:15 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/21/2014 10:09 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 21:45:51 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:


Nationally I'm sure there are many in the same situation. I don't
pump my own water and I heat with
natural gas. But so do millions of other who figure into the 'US
average'.

Those must be the ones who "use 30% of their electricity on lights"
(or whatever number you want to use.

I would also believe it is city thinking that most people have nat gas
coming to their house. When I was in Maryland, the gas line stopped
about 10 miles outside the beltway going South.
They may have expanded that by now.



I think you've missed something Gregg. Where did natural gas come into
the discussion?

Also, nobody said anybody uses 30% of their electricity on lights.
I offered a stat that said *13%* of residential electricity is used for
lighting.


He doesn't need lighting. He has good night vision. I guess he doesn't
get the point that some of us need light to see at night and welcome the
savings LED lighting affords us.

On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 11:50:50 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Hmmm... just had a thought. I wonder if they make a generator that
runs off of furnace fuel oil. Probably do. That would be more
practical as we have two 330 gal oil tanks and one 275 gal. We keep
them topped off.

===

#2 furnace fuel is a very close relative of diesel, all it lacks is
the cetane booster. You can buy cetane booster and keep it around
for when it is needed. You should probably install some extra
filtration, like a Racor, in the line going to the generator.

On 1/21/2014 11:24 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 22:27:20 -0500, Hank wrote:

On 1/21/2014 10:15 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/21/2014 10:09 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 21:45:51 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:


Nationally I'm sure there are many in the same situation. I don't
pump my own water and I heat with
natural gas. But so do millions of other who figure into the 'US
average'.

Those must be the ones who "use 30% of their electricity on lights"
(or whatever number you want to use.

I would also believe it is city thinking that most people have nat gas
coming to their house. When I was in Maryland, the gas line stopped
about 10 miles outside the beltway going South.
They may have expanded that by now.



I think you've missed something Gregg. Where did natural gas come into
the discussion?

Also, nobody said anybody uses 30% of their electricity on lights.
I offered a stat that said *13%* of residential electricity is used for
lighting.


He doesn't need lighting. He has good night vision. I guess he doesn't
get the point that some of us need light to see at night and welcome the
savings LED lighting affords us.

I don't need light when I am not there.
I guess you missed that part.

If you insist on lighting up empty rooms and the perimeter of your
house when nothing is there. I guess you are pitching in to use a more
efficient light source but you are still polluting the sky with
unwanted light.

http://pollutionfacts.org/content/light-pollution-facts

Hey, nobody's perfect. Cept you, maybe.

On 1/21/14, 11:24 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 22:27:20 -0500, Hank wrote:

On 1/21/2014 10:15 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/21/2014 10:09 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 21:45:51 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:


Nationally I'm sure there are many in the same situation. I don't
pump my own water and I heat with
natural gas. But so do millions of other who figure into the 'US
average'.

Those must be the ones who "use 30% of their electricity on lights"
(or whatever number you want to use.

I would also believe it is city thinking that most people have nat gas
coming to their house. When I was in Maryland, the gas line stopped
about 10 miles outside the beltway going South.
They may have expanded that by now.



I think you've missed something Gregg. Where did natural gas come into
the discussion?

Also, nobody said anybody uses 30% of their electricity on lights.
I offered a stat that said *13%* of residential electricity is used for
lighting.


He doesn't need lighting. He has good night vision. I guess he doesn't
get the point that some of us need light to see at night and welcome the
savings LED lighting affords us.

I don't need light when I am not there.
I guess you missed that part.

If you insist on lighting up empty rooms and the perimeter of your
house when nothing is there. I guess you are pitching in to use a more
efficient light source but you are still polluting the sky with
unwanted light.

http://pollutionfacts.org/content/light-pollution-facts


We don't have street lights in our little subdivision. In fact, most of
the residential neighborhoods in our county are sans street lights. So
many people keep a couple of lights burning outside at night. Maybe it
is a holdover from the days when mankind kept a fire burning at night
for warmth, a little light and to ward off those dinosaurs that roamed
the earth back then.

I am going to keep an eye out for some LED bulbs with small bases that
look decent and will fit in our outdoor lighting fixtures. I haven't
seen any at Home Despot or Lowes yet, but they are available via mail order.

Oh, we have a couple of LED nightlights in the house. Keeps me,
especially, from tripping over the cats.