On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 14:05:11 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

our interstate highway system is
crumbling

===

That's a major exaggeration. Some parts are certainly better than
others but most of it is in very good shape. We just completed a
3,000+ mile road trip on some of the most most heavily traveled
interstates on the east coast. Traffic and construction delays are
far more of an issue than road quality.

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...


I agree wholeheartedly, our infrastructure sucks. Trouble is it sucks
because people like you are afraid of change and innovation.

-----------------------------

The only way it will change in our society is if people (consumers of
products and services) want and demand it.
They are not keen on having things stuffed down their throats by the
government.

So far, nobody really wants or cares about high speed rail except for
some politicians and a handful of lobbyist.

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 2 Sep 2013 12:36:52 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 11:23:19 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 9/2/13 11:11 AM, wrote:


In this country, we for the most part gave up on rail public
transportation development after WW II.

We discovered air travel.

It requires a minuscule amount of real estate, the noise problems are
very isolated and planes are much faster.

No, for intermediate distances, air is slower. You have to get through
the airport, wait, delay, wait, get on board, wait possibly an hour to
take off, land, etc. etc. For my job, I've found that anything that can
be driven in four hours or less is quicker by car.


Do you think a train station is any quicker? Wait until you have a 2
hour TSA check point delay there too.

Yes, have you ever travelled via high speed rail in Europe? It's very
efficient.

The only reason train stations seem quick these days is there are not
that many people boarding and security is virtually non-existant.

See above.

Most train passengers are commuters, no luggage and relatively few
kids.

Horse****!

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 14:05:11 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

our interstate highway system is
crumbling

===

That's a major exaggeration. Some parts are certainly better than
others but most of it is in very good shape. We just completed a
3,000+ mile road trip on some of the most most heavily traveled
interstates on the east coast. Traffic and construction delays are
far more of an issue than road quality.

And the construction issues are there because the infrastructure is old
and to some extent "crumbling". There are a huge amount of problems from
old technology and old infrastructure being re-purposed for high demand
loading and frequency that it wasn't designed for. Bridges with non-
coated steel reinforcing where salt is used to de-ice the roads is but
one thing that needs repair to the tune of many years and many dollars.

"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
...

On 9/2/13 1:22 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
m...

On 9/2/13 10:27 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
...

...can't compete with this:

Japan Railway Comp. (JR Tokai) (TYO:9022) (aka. "The Central Japan
Railway Comp.) is responsible for ferrying close to 400,000
passengers
a day between some of the largest cities in central Japan. While
its
fastest bullet trains can cut the transit time from Tokyo to Osaka
from
about 6 hours by car to about 2 hours and 20 minutes by bullet
train, JR
Tokai is dreaming of a next generation maglev system that could go
even
faster, completing the 500+ kilometer (310+ mile) journey in under
an
hour.



When you don't waste your money on the military, you can have nice
things.

--------------------------------

Funds have been approved to develop high speed rail corridors in
the US
however the Department of Transportation is still working on the
safety
standards that will apply. Right now, the "crash worthiness"
spec for
the trains is more than double (in terms of forces than can be
withstood without frame deformation) than the standards used in
Europe
and Japan's high speed rail systems, i.e. almost 900,000 lbs versus
350,000 lbs.

The cost of designing and manufacturing such trains is a major
impediment, as is the cost of the rail system itself. Right now
there
are Amtrak trains between Boston and Wash DC capable of doing over
200
mph however there are very limited stretches of track that would
allow
speeds of even 150 mph. Plus, even if they could run at high
speed,
they would never be able to sustain the speed very long without
having
to stop at stations along the way. Not enough passenger usage for
"non
stop" tracks.



Yeah, I've heard and read every excuse here for at least the last 20
years. The fact remains that in the operation of high speed trains,
we're still in the caboose.

-------------------------------

We've also had viable options like a network of airports, airlines
and a
love affair with cars.
We are not Europe or Japan and don't necessarily need to emulate
them
just because it works for them.



Most of our airports are obsolete and our interstate highway system is
crumbling, along with our power grid.

------------------------------

I'll betcha if a national poll was taken the majority of people would
prefer spending money on fixing roads and airports in lieu of building
a rail system network and trains capable of travelling 200+ mph.

The power grid isn't as big of a problem as you may think. Demand has
basically flat lined in the past several years and has actually
dropped in some. Smart grids and energy efficient devices have
helped.

On 9/2/13 2:38 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
...

On 9/2/13 1:22 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
m...

On 9/2/13 10:27 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
...

...can't compete with this:

Japan Railway Comp. (JR Tokai) (TYO:9022) (aka. "The Central Japan
Railway Comp.) is responsible for ferrying close to 400,000 passengers
a day between some of the largest cities in central Japan. While its
fastest bullet trains can cut the transit time from Tokyo to Osaka from
about 6 hours by car to about 2 hours and 20 minutes by bullet train, JR
Tokai is dreaming of a next generation maglev system that could go even
faster, completing the 500+ kilometer (310+ mile) journey in under an
hour.



When you don't waste your money on the military, you can have nice
things.

--------------------------------

Funds have been approved to develop high speed rail corridors in the US
however the Department of Transportation is still working on the safety
standards that will apply. Right now, the "crash worthiness" spec for
the trains is more than double (in terms of forces than can be
withstood without frame deformation) than the standards used in Europe
and Japan's high speed rail systems, i.e. almost 900,000 lbs versus
350,000 lbs.

The cost of designing and manufacturing such trains is a major
impediment, as is the cost of the rail system itself. Right now there
are Amtrak trains between Boston and Wash DC capable of doing over 200
mph however there are very limited stretches of track that would allow
speeds of even 150 mph. Plus, even if they could run at high speed,
they would never be able to sustain the speed very long without having
to stop at stations along the way. Not enough passenger usage for "non
stop" tracks.



Yeah, I've heard and read every excuse here for at least the last 20
years. The fact remains that in the operation of high speed trains,
we're still in the caboose.

-------------------------------

We've also had viable options like a network of airports, airlines and a
love affair with cars.
We are not Europe or Japan and don't necessarily need to emulate them
just because it works for them.



Most of our airports are obsolete and our interstate highway system is
crumbling, along with our power grid.

------------------------------

I'll betcha if a national poll was taken the majority of people would
prefer spending money on fixing roads and airports in lieu of building a
rail system network and trains capable of travelling 200+ mph.

The power grid isn't as big of a problem as you may think. Demand has
basically flat lined in the past several years and has actually dropped
in some. Smart grids and energy efficient devices have helped.



Not to worry. Nothing much is happening in refurbishing roads,
bridges, dams, infrastructure.

On 9/2/2013 11:43 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 11:16:30 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 9/2/13 10:27 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


Yeah, I've heard and read every excuse here for at least the last 20
years. The fact remains that in the operation of high speed trains,
we're still in the caboose.

NIMBY
Would you want a 150 MPH train running by your house?



It's already there on the whole frekin' shoreline... they got the land,
it's not about land...

On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 14:42:08 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

Not to worry. Nothing much is happening in refurbishing roads,
bridges, dams, infrastructure.

===

Talk to your president. If you *really* want to boost the economy
*and* help the infrastructure, that's a good use of government
funding. Congress would sign up because there'd be plenty of pork to
pass around.

On Mon, 2 Sep 2013 14:20:29 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

So far, nobody really wants or cares about high speed rail except for
some politicians and a handful of lobbyist.

===

There are some routes where high speed rail might make sense. Tampa
to Orlando is not yet one of them however. SanFrancisco to LA and
San Diego might work. Another possibility is Chicago to Florida
and/or NY to Florida. All of those routes see very heavy air travel.
If the Florida routes were planned correctly, you might get Tampa to
Orlando, FTL and MIA as part of the bargain. One of my neighbors is
in the process of driving his wife to Michigan because she hates to
fly. He ends up doing it 4 or 5 times a year.

On 9/2/2013 1:05 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 11:48:18 -0400, wrote:

In this country, we for the most part gave up on rail public
transportation development after WW II.

We discovered air travel.

===

And the interstate highway system, along with comfortable, air
conditioned cars.


And the fact that most of us couldn't conduct our everyday lives on
public transport....