On 9/2/13 12:34 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 09:38:55 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

Japan Railway Comp

Once you get away from the Boston - DC corridor, there are not many
places where people would ride a train. Even there, if you are not
spending your visit in the city center, you need a car.
We are not Japan nor Europe.
The only place with a similar population density is the NE megopolis
and they have a train

There certainly is if there was a viable one to ride.



I've taken the train a few times between D.C. and Florida, and it is
packed. The equipment is old but decently maintained, but the trackage
is just awful and there are hundreds of unprotected crossings. If you
rent a compartment, it is significantly more expensive than flying, but
you don't have the awful hassles of air travel.

D.C. to Philly or to NYC is a damned fine train trip, as is D.C. to New
Haven, though I usually get off the train in Milford. Now there's a new
stop that is also convenient...West Haven. Will try that the next time.

My wife took a sleeper car compartment to Chicago early this year and
said the trip was relaxing, with none of the airport bull**** you have
to go through these days.

On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 11:43:26 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 11:16:30 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 9/2/13 10:27 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


Yeah, I've heard and read every excuse here for at least the last 20
years. The fact remains that in the operation of high speed trains,
we're still in the caboose.

NIMBY
Would you want a 150 MPH train running by your house?


===

I don't think that's it because there are already plenty of
established right-of-ways that could be utilized. It's probably more
a perception, probably accurate, that most americans would rather
drive if at all possible. When I was living and working in the NYC
area it was almost always easier, and about as fast, to drive to
Philly, DC or Boston even though there are decent rail links. The
only exception was if you were traveling to a downtown location which
was usually not the case. I think it will take a radical change in
fuel prices and/or availability to change that thinking.

On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 11:48:18 -0400, wrote:

In this country, we for the most part gave up on rail public
transportation development after WW II.

We discovered air travel.

===

And the interstate highway system, along with comfortable, air
conditioned cars.

"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
m...

On 9/2/13 10:27 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
...

...can't compete with this:

Japan Railway Comp. (JR Tokai) (TYO:9022) (aka. "The Central Japan
Railway Comp.) is responsible for ferrying close to 400,000
passengers
a day between some of the largest cities in central Japan. While
its
fastest bullet trains can cut the transit time from Tokyo to Osaka
from
about 6 hours by car to about 2 hours and 20 minutes by bullet
train, JR
Tokai is dreaming of a next generation maglev system that could go
even
faster, completing the 500+ kilometer (310+ mile) journey in under
an hour.



When you don't waste your money on the military, you can have nice
things.

--------------------------------

Funds have been approved to develop high speed rail corridors in the
US
however the Department of Transportation is still working on the
safety
standards that will apply. Right now, the "crash worthiness" spec
for
the trains is more than double (in terms of forces than can be
withstood without frame deformation) than the standards used in
Europe
and Japan's high speed rail systems, i.e. almost 900,000 lbs versus
350,000 lbs.

The cost of designing and manufacturing such trains is a major
impediment, as is the cost of the rail system itself. Right now
there
are Amtrak trains between Boston and Wash DC capable of doing over
200
mph however there are very limited stretches of track that would
allow
speeds of even 150 mph. Plus, even if they could run at high
speed,
they would never be able to sustain the speed very long without
having
to stop at stations along the way. Not enough passenger usage for
"non
stop" tracks.



Yeah, I've heard and read every excuse here for at least the last 20
years. The fact remains that in the operation of high speed trains,
we're still in the caboose.

-------------------------------

We've also had viable options like a network of airports, airlines and
a love affair with cars.
We are not Europe or Japan and don't necessarily need to emulate them
just because it works for them.

On 9/2/2013 11:36 AM, Hank© wrote:
On 9/2/2013 11:16 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 9/2/13 10:27 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
...

...can't compete with this:

Japan Railway Comp. (JR Tokai) (TYO:9022) (aka. "The Central Japan
Railway Comp.) is responsible for ferrying close to 400,000 passengers
a day between some of the largest cities in central Japan. While its
fastest bullet trains can cut the transit time from Tokyo to Osaka from
about 6 hours by car to about 2 hours and 20 minutes by bullet train, JR
Tokai is dreaming of a next generation maglev system that could go even
faster, completing the 500+ kilometer (310+ mile) journey in under an
hour.



When you don't waste your money on the military, you can have nice
things.

--------------------------------

Funds have been approved to develop high speed rail corridors in the US
however the Department of Transportation is still working on the safety
standards that will apply. Right now, the "crash worthiness" spec for
the trains is more than double (in terms of forces than can be
withstood without frame deformation) than the standards used in Europe
and Japan's high speed rail systems, i.e. almost 900,000 lbs versus
350,000 lbs.

The cost of designing and manufacturing such trains is a major
impediment, as is the cost of the rail system itself. Right now there
are Amtrak trains between Boston and Wash DC capable of doing over 200
mph however there are very limited stretches of track that would allow
speeds of even 150 mph. Plus, even if they could run at high speed,
they would never be able to sustain the speed very long without having
to stop at stations along the way. Not enough passenger usage for "non
stop" tracks.



Yeah, I've heard and read every excuse here for at least the last 20
years. The fact remains that in the operation of high speed trains,
we're still in the caboose.

And why is that?

Geography, and our business model... Trains just don't work here. Even
the fast one on the shoreline. It doesn't change traffic one bit down
the CT coastline, it really serves a few folks who find it easier to
commute between Boston, NYC, and DC from what i can see... but it's
never crowded, I can't see how it could ever be profitable.

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 2 Sep 2013 12:34:21 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 09:38:55 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

Japan Railway Comp

Once you get away from the Boston - DC corridor, there are not many
places where people would ride a train. Even there, if you are not
spending your visit in the city center, you need a car.
We are not Japan nor Europe.
The only place with a similar population density is the NE megopolis
and they have a train

There certainly is if there was a viable one to ride.

There are plenty of trains in the US and they go off virtually empty.
That is why Amtrak is always on the public dole.
There are some routes that make sense and they succeed. Acela is one.
That does not translate well in most places.

Uh, we are talking about high speed rail, and you are wrong, most trains
have a good amount of people riding, but because they are not high
speed, they aren't to capacity.

Here in Florida they wanted to build a high speed train between Tampa
and Orlando. They problem is, they would really need to have a lot of
stops near both ends to make it attractive ... as a commuter train.
That is not conducive to "high speed".

You end up with the same problem I brought up before. You need a car
to get around Tampa and Orlando. Tourists are unlikely to travel in
between by train anyway. If they have a rental car, you are only
talking about a 1 - 1.5 hour drive. They would be at the other end,
checked into their hotel before you got through the train station on
both ends, if they "beamed" you to Tampa.

I agree wholeheartedly, our infrastructure sucks. Trouble is it sucks
because people like you are afraid of change and innovation.

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 2 Sep 2013 12:34:21 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 09:38:55 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

Japan Railway Comp

Once you get away from the Boston - DC corridor, there are not many
places where people would ride a train. Even there, if you are not
spending your visit in the city center, you need a car.
We are not Japan nor Europe.
The only place with a similar population density is the NE megopolis
and they have a train

There certainly is if there was a viable one to ride.

There are plenty of trains in the US and they go off virtually empty.
That is why Amtrak is always on the public dole.
There are some routes that make sense and they succeed. Acela is one.
That does not translate well in most places.

Here in Florida they wanted to build a high speed train between Tampa
and Orlando. They problem is, they would really need to have a lot of
stops near both ends to make it attractive ... as a commuter train.
That is not conducive to "high speed".

You end up with the same problem I brought up before. You need a car
to get around Tampa and Orlando. Tourists are unlikely to travel in
between by train anyway. If they have a rental car, you are only
talking about a 1 - 1.5 hour drive. They would be at the other end,
checked into their hotel before you got through the train station on
both ends, if they "beamed" you to Tampa.

I've driven the I-4 corridor hundreds upon hundreds of times. If I could
take a high speed train, I would.

In article ,
says...

On 9/2/2013 11:36 AM, Hank© wrote:
On 9/2/2013 11:16 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 9/2/13 10:27 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
...

...can't compete with this:

Japan Railway Comp. (JR Tokai) (TYO:9022) (aka. "The Central Japan
Railway Comp.) is responsible for ferrying close to 400,000 passengers
a day between some of the largest cities in central Japan. While its
fastest bullet trains can cut the transit time from Tokyo to Osaka from
about 6 hours by car to about 2 hours and 20 minutes by bullet train, JR
Tokai is dreaming of a next generation maglev system that could go even
faster, completing the 500+ kilometer (310+ mile) journey in under an
hour.



When you don't waste your money on the military, you can have nice
things.

--------------------------------

Funds have been approved to develop high speed rail corridors in the US
however the Department of Transportation is still working on the safety
standards that will apply. Right now, the "crash worthiness" spec for
the trains is more than double (in terms of forces than can be
withstood without frame deformation) than the standards used in Europe
and Japan's high speed rail systems, i.e. almost 900,000 lbs versus
350,000 lbs.

The cost of designing and manufacturing such trains is a major
impediment, as is the cost of the rail system itself. Right now there
are Amtrak trains between Boston and Wash DC capable of doing over 200
mph however there are very limited stretches of track that would allow
speeds of even 150 mph. Plus, even if they could run at high speed,
they would never be able to sustain the speed very long without having
to stop at stations along the way. Not enough passenger usage for "non
stop" tracks.



Yeah, I've heard and read every excuse here for at least the last 20
years. The fact remains that in the operation of high speed trains,
we're still in the caboose.

And why is that?

Geography, and our business model... Trains just don't work here. Even
the fast one on the shoreline. It doesn't change traffic one bit down
the CT coastline, it really serves a few folks who find it easier to
commute between Boston, NYC, and DC from what i can see... but it's
never crowded, I can't see how it could ever be profitable.

The naysayers, the ones against progress, innovation and invention.

On 9/2/13 1:22 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
m...

On 9/2/13 10:27 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
...

...can't compete with this:

Japan Railway Comp. (JR Tokai) (TYO:9022) (aka. "The Central Japan
Railway Comp.) is responsible for ferrying close to 400,000 passengers
a day between some of the largest cities in central Japan. While its
fastest bullet trains can cut the transit time from Tokyo to Osaka from
about 6 hours by car to about 2 hours and 20 minutes by bullet train, JR
Tokai is dreaming of a next generation maglev system that could go even
faster, completing the 500+ kilometer (310+ mile) journey in under an
hour.



When you don't waste your money on the military, you can have nice
things.

--------------------------------

Funds have been approved to develop high speed rail corridors in the US
however the Department of Transportation is still working on the safety
standards that will apply. Right now, the "crash worthiness" spec for
the trains is more than double (in terms of forces than can be
withstood without frame deformation) than the standards used in Europe
and Japan's high speed rail systems, i.e. almost 900,000 lbs versus
350,000 lbs.

The cost of designing and manufacturing such trains is a major
impediment, as is the cost of the rail system itself. Right now there
are Amtrak trains between Boston and Wash DC capable of doing over 200
mph however there are very limited stretches of track that would allow
speeds of even 150 mph. Plus, even if they could run at high speed,
they would never be able to sustain the speed very long without having
to stop at stations along the way. Not enough passenger usage for "non
stop" tracks.



Yeah, I've heard and read every excuse here for at least the last 20
years. The fact remains that in the operation of high speed trains,
we're still in the caboose.

-------------------------------

We've also had viable options like a network of airports, airlines and a
love affair with cars.
We are not Europe or Japan and don't necessarily need to emulate them
just because it works for them.



Most of our airports are obsolete and our interstate highway system is
crumbling, along with our power grid.

On 9/2/13 1:52 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 12:42:28 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 9/2/13 12:34 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 09:38:55 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

Japan Railway Comp

Once you get away from the Boston - DC corridor, there are not many
places where people would ride a train. Even there, if you are not
spending your visit in the city center, you need a car.
We are not Japan nor Europe.
The only place with a similar population density is the NE megopolis
and they have a train

There certainly is if there was a viable one to ride.



I've taken the train a few times between D.C. and Florida, and it is
packed. The equipment is old but decently maintained, but the trackage
is just awful and there are hundreds of unprotected crossings. If you
rent a compartment, it is significantly more expensive than flying, but
you don't have the awful hassles of air travel.

As soon as TSA gets involved and that is coming, you will have the air
travel hassles.
I have taken the train to DC myself but it is not travel, it is an
adventure.


D.C. to Philly or to NYC is a damned fine train trip, as is D.C. to New
Haven, though I usually get off the train in Milford. Now there's a new
stop that is also convenient...West Haven. Will try that the next time.

I already said DC to NYC is the perfect use for a train as long as you
plan on staying in the city.

I bet when you got to Florida, you needed a car. Did you bring yours
on the train?
The last time I looked you could fly and rent a car for 2 weeks for
less than the Autotrain, traveling coach.
As you said a compartment is comparable with first class air fare and
you still might have a week's car rental left over.


Never been on the autotrain. We do get a compartment on the train to Jax
and back, and we use one of our relative's cars when we get there.

Pretty sure we'll be in Miami/Ft. Lauderdale in late winter next year.
We'll fly to Ft. Lauderdale and rent a car there. Car rentals in Florida
are still pretty inexpensive.