http://www.thedenverchannel.com/nati...56/detail.html

"Bob Crantz" wrote in message
...
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/nati...56/detail.html

I feel such ambivalence about the report you've linked. My second career in
education has left me feeling that the education system is run by
incompetent boobs who are trying to placate an ignorant public (a vicious
cycle?) while pandering to self-serving politicos. I've worked with some of
the black males cited in the article. If there is a school-related answer to
their problem I'd sure like to hear it. Particularly, I'd like to know why
our society seems to ignore the fact that good family structure and support
(i.e., the lack of) is at the root of our educational woes. I often feel the
education system is in many ways an effigy, a whipping boy of society,
manipulated and modified so we can all vent our rage at the bigger problem
without offending anyone directly. Fix the bigger problems and education
will work the way it has forever. Transfer information, pass the torch, and
encourage the next group to carry it further.
This group is a great example of how people learn when they choose to learn.
I believe cyber-schools could work for the right type of student. It's a
simple process when the student puts a bit of effort into it. There is
nothing fancy here, just opinions and information sharing. Why does it work
here and in so many of our schools nothing seems to work at all? Try getting
some of these victims of the education system to do some homework. Try
getting them to take a book home. Why did you do your homework in high
school? I wanted to please my parents and had a healthy respect for them as
well. They took care of me and punished me appropriately when I acted in
ways that were educationally unproductive.
So standardized testing shows that black males are behind. Did we need to
spend a billion dollars to figure that one out? Did we need to turn the
education system into a bigger mockery where curricula are now geared toward
getting the right answers on those tests? I was taught by nuns and priests
who beat the **** out of me when I got out of line. Guess what, that's all
it took. Parents knocking me back in line at home, teachers knocking me back
in line at school. Simple, simple, simple. But no, let's spend billions more
on the education piñata.
And by the way, let's blame the education system for the aftermath of
slavery. Let's not admit that we can't point the finger at the lack of
family structure without noting that it's only in recent history that the
failing portion of our population lacks the thing that this country took
from them, history, family, tradition, and values that tend to evolve
slowly, over many generations.
Scout

Scout wrote:
"Bob Crantz" wrote in message
...

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/nati...56/detail.html


I feel such ambivalence about the report you've linked. My second career in
education has left me feeling that the education system is run by
incompetent boobs who are trying to placate an ignorant public (a vicious
cycle?) while pandering to self-serving politicos. I've worked with some of
the black males cited in the article. If there is a school-related answer to
their problem I'd sure like to hear it. Particularly, I'd like to know why
our society seems to ignore the fact that good family structure and support
(i.e., the lack of) is at the root of our educational woes. I often feel the
education system is in many ways an effigy, a whipping boy of society,
manipulated and modified so we can all vent our rage at the bigger problem
without offending anyone directly. Fix the bigger problems and education
will work the way it has forever. Transfer information, pass the torch, and
encourage the next group to carry it further.
This group is a great example of how people learn when they choose to learn.
I believe cyber-schools could work for the right type of student. It's a
simple process when the student puts a bit of effort into it. There is
nothing fancy here, just opinions and information sharing. Why does it work
here and in so many of our schools nothing seems to work at all? Try getting
some of these victims of the education system to do some homework. Try
getting them to take a book home. Why did you do your homework in high
school? I wanted to please my parents and had a healthy respect for them as
well. They took care of me and punished me appropriately when I acted in
ways that were educationally unproductive.
So standardized testing shows that black males are behind. Did we need to
spend a billion dollars to figure that one out? Did we need to turn the
education system into a bigger mockery where curricula are now geared toward
getting the right answers on those tests? I was taught by nuns and priests
who beat the **** out of me when I got out of line. Guess what, that's all
it took. Parents knocking me back in line at home, teachers knocking me back
in line at school. Simple, simple, simple. But no, let's spend billions more
on the education piñata.
And by the way, let's blame the education system for the aftermath of
slavery. Let's not admit that we can't point the finger at the lack of
family structure without noting that it's only in recent history that the
failing portion of our population lacks the thing that this country took
from them, history, family, tradition, and values that tend to evolve
slowly, over many generations.
Scout


Bravo! Can Mr. Sails come and work in your school?

But at least now , no kid is left behind.

;o

"Scout" wrote in message
. ..
"Bob Crantz" wrote in message
...

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/nati...2320856/detail
..html

I feel such ambivalence about the report you've linked. My
second career in
education has left me feeling that the education system is
run by
incompetent boobs who are trying to placate an ignorant
public (a vicious
cycle?) while pandering to self-serving politicos. I've
worked with some of
the black males cited in the article. If there is a
school-related answer to
their problem I'd sure like to hear it. Particularly, I'd
like to know why
our society seems to ignore the fact that good family
structure and support
(i.e., the lack of) is at the root of our educational
woes. I often feel the
education system is in many ways an effigy, a whipping boy
of society,
manipulated and modified so we can all vent our rage at
the bigger problem
without offending anyone directly. Fix the bigger problems
and education
will work the way it has forever. Transfer information,
pass the torch, and
encourage the next group to carry it further.
This group is a great example of how people learn when
they choose to learn.
I believe cyber-schools could work for the right type of
student. It's a
simple process when the student puts a bit of effort into
it. There is
nothing fancy here, just opinions and information sharing.
Why does it work
here and in so many of our schools nothing seems to work
at all? Try getting
some of these victims of the education system to do some
homework. Try
getting them to take a book home. Why did you do your
homework in high
school? I wanted to please my parents and had a healthy
respect for them as
well. They took care of me and punished me appropriately
when I acted in
ways that were educationally unproductive.
So standardized testing shows that black males are behind.
Did we need to
spend a billion dollars to figure that one out? Did we
need to turn the
education system into a bigger mockery where curricula are
now geared toward
getting the right answers on those tests? I was taught by
nuns and priests
who beat the **** out of me when I got out of line. Guess
what, that's all
it took. Parents knocking me back in line at home,
teachers knocking me back
in line at school. Simple, simple, simple. But no, let's
spend billions more
on the education piñata.
And by the way, let's blame the education system for the
aftermath of
slavery. Let's not admit that we can't point the finger at
the lack of
family structure without noting that it's only in recent
history that the
failing portion of our population lacks the thing that
this country took
from them, history, family, tradition, and values that
tend to evolve
slowly, over many generations.
Scout

On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 06:04:10 -0400, "Scout"
wrote:

"Bob Crantz" wrote in message
...
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/nati...56/detail.html

I feel such ambivalence about the report you've linked. My second career in
education has left me feeling that the education system is run by
incompetent boobs who are trying to placate an ignorant public (a vicious
cycle?) while pandering to self-serving politicos. I've worked with some of
the black males cited in the article. If there is a school-related answer to
their problem I'd sure like to hear it. Particularly, I'd like to know why
our society seems to ignore the fact that good family structure and support
(i.e., the lack of) is at the root of our educational woes. I often feel the
education system is in many ways an effigy, a whipping boy of society,
manipulated and modified so we can all vent our rage at the bigger problem
without offending anyone directly. Fix the bigger problems and education
will work the way it has forever. Transfer information, pass the torch, and
encourage the next group to carry it further.
This group is a great example of how people learn when they choose to learn.
I believe cyber-schools could work for the right type of student. It's a
simple process when the student puts a bit of effort into it. There is
nothing fancy here, just opinions and information sharing. Why does it work
here and in so many of our schools nothing seems to work at all? Try getting
some of these victims of the education system to do some homework. Try
getting them to take a book home. Why did you do your homework in high
school? I wanted to please my parents and had a healthy respect for them as
well. They took care of me and punished me appropriately when I acted in
ways that were educationally unproductive.
So standardized testing shows that black males are behind. Did we need to
spend a billion dollars to figure that one out? Did we need to turn the
education system into a bigger mockery where curricula are now geared toward
getting the right answers on those tests? I was taught by nuns and priests
who beat the **** out of me when I got out of line. Guess what, that's all
it took. Parents knocking me back in line at home, teachers knocking me back
in line at school. Simple, simple, simple. But no, let's spend billions more
on the education piñata.
And by the way, let's blame the education system for the aftermath of
slavery. Let's not admit that we can't point the finger at the lack of
family structure without noting that it's only in recent history that the
failing portion of our population lacks the thing that this country took
from them, history, family, tradition, and values that tend to evolve
slowly, over many generations.
Scout



Outstanding response, right on target.

I, too, was taught by those nuns and, in my case, brothers. Very
effective.

Two of my son's were educated completely in Mississippi public
schools, and you would be led to believe by the various pollsters,
they are the worst in the nation. Two National Merit Finalists. And
they were not unique, many more where they came from. Another son was
educated in Oklahoma public schools. Rhodes Scholar Finalist.

Those same schools produce a percentage (smaller than you might think)
of failures and droppouts. Fault of the school board, the teachers?
the facilities?, the amount of money spent per student? Absolutley
not. Simply a matter of whether or not you were made to do your
homework, made to study the night before a test, made to get up in
the morning and go, made to get to bed at a decent hour. In other
words, when you were immature did you have someone who was mature
pushing you on and providing structure and consistency. If not you
are at risk and it is not the fault of the school, nor can the school,
statistically speaking, overcome that missing element.

The race earnings statistics are also misleading. I ran a large
operation that had approximately 30% minority employee's Not one of
them made a penny less than their white counterparts. In some cases,
for exempt positions, they might even be hired at a slightly higher
rate, but within the range, in order to meet an affirmative action
target. They were, statistically speaking, as productive as their
white counterparts.

What that means is if you prepare yourself for employment there is no
statistical earnings disparity. But if you blend in those who do not
prepare themselves or who do not have families that see to it, the
reported statistic holds true. And the schools can do nothing about
it.

Frank

"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 06:04:10 -0400, "Scout"
wrote:

"Bob Crantz" wrote in message
...
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/nati...56/detail.html

I feel such ambivalence about the report you've linked. My second career
in
education has left me feeling that the education system is run by
incompetent boobs who are trying to placate an ignorant public (a vicious
cycle?) while pandering to self-serving politicos. I've worked with some
of
the black males cited in the article. If there is a school-related answer
to
their problem I'd sure like to hear it. Particularly, I'd like to know why
our society seems to ignore the fact that good family structure and
support
(i.e., the lack of) is at the root of our educational woes. I often feel
the
education system is in many ways an effigy, a whipping boy of society,
manipulated and modified so we can all vent our rage at the bigger problem
without offending anyone directly. Fix the bigger problems and education
will work the way it has forever. Transfer information, pass the torch,
and
encourage the next group to carry it further.
This group is a great example of how people learn when they choose to
learn.
I believe cyber-schools could work for the right type of student. It's a
simple process when the student puts a bit of effort into it. There is
nothing fancy here, just opinions and information sharing. Why does it
work
here and in so many of our schools nothing seems to work at all? Try
getting
some of these victims of the education system to do some homework. Try
getting them to take a book home. Why did you do your homework in high
school? I wanted to please my parents and had a healthy respect for them
as
well. They took care of me and punished me appropriately when I acted in
ways that were educationally unproductive.
So standardized testing shows that black males are behind. Did we need to
spend a billion dollars to figure that one out? Did we need to turn the
education system into a bigger mockery where curricula are now geared
toward
getting the right answers on those tests? I was taught by nuns and priests
who beat the **** out of me when I got out of line. Guess what, that's all
it took. Parents knocking me back in line at home, teachers knocking me
back
in line at school. Simple, simple, simple. But no, let's spend billions
more
on the education piñata.
And by the way, let's blame the education system for the aftermath of
slavery. Let's not admit that we can't point the finger at the lack of
family structure without noting that it's only in recent history that the
failing portion of our population lacks the thing that this country took
from them, history, family, tradition, and values that tend to evolve
slowly, over many generations.
Scout



Outstanding response, right on target.

I, too, was taught by those nuns and, in my case, brothers. Very
effective.

Two of my son's were educated completely in Mississippi public
schools, and you would be led to believe by the various pollsters,
they are the worst in the nation. Two National Merit Finalists. And
they were not unique, many more where they came from. Another son was
educated in Oklahoma public schools. Rhodes Scholar Finalist.

Those same schools produce a percentage (smaller than you might think)
of failures and droppouts. Fault of the school board, the teachers?
the facilities?, the amount of money spent per student? Absolutley
not. Simply a matter of whether or not you were made to do your
homework, made to study the night before a test, made to get up in
the morning and go, made to get to bed at a decent hour. In other
words, when you were immature did you have someone who was mature
pushing you on and providing structure and consistency. If not you
are at risk and it is not the fault of the school, nor can the school,
statistically speaking, overcome that missing element.

The race earnings statistics are also misleading. I ran a large
operation that had approximately 30% minority employee's Not one of
them made a penny less than their white counterparts. In some cases,
for exempt positions, they might even be hired at a slightly higher
rate, but within the range, in order to meet an affirmative action
target. They were, statistically speaking, as productive as their
white counterparts.

What that means is if you prepare yourself for employment there is no
statistical earnings disparity. But if you blend in those who do not
prepare themselves or who do not have families that see to it, the
reported statistic holds true. And the schools can do nothing about
it.

Frank

Well said Frank. Makes a whole lot of sense.
Scout

"katy" wrote in message
...
Scout wrote:
"Bob Crantz" wrote in message
...

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/nati...56/detail.html


I feel such ambivalence about the report you've linked. My second career
in education has left me feeling that the education system is run by
incompetent boobs who are trying to placate an ignorant public (a vicious
cycle?) while pandering to self-serving politicos. I've worked with some
of the black males cited in the article. If there is a school-related
answer to their problem I'd sure like to hear it. Particularly, I'd like
to know why our society seems to ignore the fact that good family
structure and support (i.e., the lack of) is at the root of our
educational woes. I often feel the education system is in many ways an
effigy, a whipping boy of society, manipulated and modified so we can all
vent our rage at the bigger problem without offending anyone directly.
Fix the bigger problems and education will work the way it has forever.
Transfer information, pass the torch, and encourage the next group to
carry it further.
This group is a great example of how people learn when they choose to
learn. I believe cyber-schools could work for the right type of student.
It's a simple process when the student puts a bit of effort into it.
There is nothing fancy here, just opinions and information sharing. Why
does it work here and in so many of our schools nothing seems to work at
all? Try getting some of these victims of the education system to do some
homework. Try getting them to take a book home. Why did you do your
homework in high school? I wanted to please my parents and had a healthy
respect for them as well. They took care of me and punished me
appropriately when I acted in ways that were educationally unproductive.
So standardized testing shows that black males are behind. Did we need to
spend a billion dollars to figure that one out? Did we need to turn the
education system into a bigger mockery where curricula are now geared
toward getting the right answers on those tests? I was taught by nuns and
priests who beat the **** out of me when I got out of line. Guess what,
that's all it took. Parents knocking me back in line at home, teachers
knocking me back in line at school. Simple, simple, simple. But no, let's
spend billions more on the education piñata.
And by the way, let's blame the education system for the aftermath of
slavery. Let's not admit that we can't point the finger at the lack of
family structure without noting that it's only in recent history that the
failing portion of our population lacks the thing that this country took
from them, history, family, tradition, and values that tend to evolve
slowly, over many generations.
Scout
Bravo! Can Mr. Sails come and work in your school?

Katy,
I emailed you (if this address works). Let me know if it doesn't and I'll
send to another address.

Yep, sounds good!

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
But at least now , no kid is left behind.

;o

"Scout" wrote in message
. ..
"Bob Crantz" wrote in message
...

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/nati...2320856/detail
.html

I feel such ambivalence about the report you've linked. My
second career in
education has left me feeling that the education system is
run by
incompetent boobs who are trying to placate an ignorant
public (a vicious
cycle?) while pandering to self-serving politicos. I've
worked with some of
the black males cited in the article. If there is a
school-related answer to
their problem I'd sure like to hear it. Particularly, I'd
like to know why
our society seems to ignore the fact that good family
structure and support
(i.e., the lack of) is at the root of our educational
woes. I often feel the
education system is in many ways an effigy, a whipping boy
of society,
manipulated and modified so we can all vent our rage at
the bigger problem
without offending anyone directly. Fix the bigger problems
and education
will work the way it has forever. Transfer information,
pass the torch, and
encourage the next group to carry it further.
This group is a great example of how people learn when
they choose to learn.
I believe cyber-schools could work for the right type of
student. It's a
simple process when the student puts a bit of effort into
it. There is
nothing fancy here, just opinions and information sharing.
Why does it work
here and in so many of our schools nothing seems to work
at all? Try getting
some of these victims of the education system to do some
homework. Try
getting them to take a book home. Why did you do your
homework in high
school? I wanted to please my parents and had a healthy
respect for them as
well. They took care of me and punished me appropriately
when I acted in
ways that were educationally unproductive.
So standardized testing shows that black males are behind.
Did we need to
spend a billion dollars to figure that one out? Did we
need to turn the
education system into a bigger mockery where curricula are
now geared toward
getting the right answers on those tests? I was taught by
nuns and priests
who beat the **** out of me when I got out of line. Guess
what, that's all
it took. Parents knocking me back in line at home,
teachers knocking me back
in line at school. Simple, simple, simple. But no, let's
spend billions more
on the education piñata.
And by the way, let's blame the education system for the
aftermath of
slavery. Let's not admit that we can't point the finger at
the lack of
family structure without noting that it's only in recent
history that the
failing portion of our population lacks the thing that
this country took
from them, history, family, tradition, and values that
tend to evolve
slowly, over many generations.
Scout

Did I mention that a parent, single mom, was suing Lisa and
the school dist. because her kid is stupid and lazy ( my
words)?

Scotty


"Scout" wrote in message
. ..
Yep, sounds good!

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
But at least now , no kid is left behind.

;o

"Scout" wrote in message
. ..
"Bob Crantz" wrote in message
...


http://www.thedenverchannel.com/nati...2320856/detail
.html

I feel such ambivalence about the report you've linked.
My
second career in
education has left me feeling that the education system
is
run by
incompetent boobs who are trying to placate an ignorant
public (a vicious
cycle?) while pandering to self-serving politicos. I've
worked with some of
the black males cited in the article. If there is a
school-related answer to
their problem I'd sure like to hear it. Particularly,
I'd
like to know why
our society seems to ignore the fact that good family
structure and support
(i.e., the lack of) is at the root of our educational
woes. I often feel the
education system is in many ways an effigy, a whipping
boy
of society,
manipulated and modified so we can all vent our rage at
the bigger problem
without offending anyone directly. Fix the bigger
problems
and education
will work the way it has forever. Transfer information,
pass the torch, and
encourage the next group to carry it further.
This group is a great example of how people learn when
they choose to learn.
I believe cyber-schools could work for the right type
of
student. It's a
simple process when the student puts a bit of effort
into
it. There is
nothing fancy here, just opinions and information
sharing.
Why does it work
here and in so many of our schools nothing seems to
work
at all? Try getting
some of these victims of the education system to do
some
homework. Try
getting them to take a book home. Why did you do your
homework in high
school? I wanted to please my parents and had a healthy
respect for them as
well. They took care of me and punished me
appropriately
when I acted in
ways that were educationally unproductive.
So standardized testing shows that black males are
behind.
Did we need to
spend a billion dollars to figure that one out? Did we
need to turn the
education system into a bigger mockery where curricula
are
now geared toward
getting the right answers on those tests? I was taught
by
nuns and priests
who beat the **** out of me when I got out of line.
Guess
what, that's all
it took. Parents knocking me back in line at home,
teachers knocking me back
in line at school. Simple, simple, simple. But no,
let's
spend billions more
on the education piñata.
And by the way, let's blame the education system for
the
aftermath of
slavery. Let's not admit that we can't point the finger
at
the lack of
family structure without noting that it's only in
recent
history that the
failing portion of our population lacks the thing that
this country took
from them, history, family, tradition, and values that
tend to evolve
slowly, over many generations.
Scout