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iBoaterer[_3_]

In article ,
says...

On Wed, 26 Jun 2013 17:11:08 -0700 (PDT), True North wrote:

On Wednesday, 26 June 2013 20:45:33 UTC-3, BAR wrote:
In article , says...

On Wed, 26 Jun 2013 10:17:05 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

The United States Department of Agriculture advises against the

practice of rinsing poultry or meat before cooking it. It runs the

risk of spreading bacteria on your sink, countertop and utensils where

it can be further spread.

Cooking at the correct temperatures kills any harmful bacteria.

Maybe some of us just want to wash the **** off the bird instead of

simply cooking it long enough to make it "safe".

This makes me wonder how they "wash" their birds, with a pressure

cleaner?

You are going to expose your kitchen surfaces to the bacteria as soon

as you take the bird out of the bag from the store. The answer is to

clean the surfaces.

BTW do you use those reusable bags? How often do you wash them and how

do you wash them?

To the contrary of what you hear, your dryer is probably not going to

get the contents hot enough to kill all of the bacteria, particularly

on the "energy saver" setting.

Here in the Peoples Republic of Montgomery County we have a bag tax. If you want a bag to

carry your purchases out of the store it will cost you 5 cents a bag. After this was

implemented there was a rash of cases of food poisoning. This was due to people buying re-

usable bags to cart their groceries home from the store. The problem is that people through

away bags where the contents leaked and since they paid a few dollars for their reusable bags

the just foled thme up and put them back in their cars which resulting in massive bacteria

colonies affecting the next batch of groceries.

The law of unintended consequences strikes again.

One of the two major chains implemented that policy a couple years ago. When the other didn't follow, the first relented.
One store from that chain did keep the policy, along with at least one boutique type grocer chain.
Most people up here use the big re-usable bags that all the grocery stores sell for $1.00.

Those are the bags he's discussing that are the cause of much of the food poisoning.

John (Gun Nut) H.

Cite?

iBoaterer[_3_]

In article ,
says...

John H wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 20:28:12 -0400, Earl wrote:

John H wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 19:53:17 -0400, Earl wrote:

Califbill wrote:
"Earl" wrote in message
...

wrote:
On Fri, 21 Jun 2013 08:46:37 -0700, "Califbill"
wrote:

We bbq mostly chicken, pork and fish. If you have a wood burning grill,
then you will get more flavor. Gas, you might as well use the
broiler. We
have an electric skillet with a broiler lid, so not even a lot of
mess to
clean up.
That is why I throw hickory chips in there.
I have a spare "floater" from my spa that I drop in a bucket of water
with a handful of chips and let them soak an hour or so and they smoke
up real good.
For chicken or ribs I sometimes use charcoal. Put the charcoal in,
fire up the gas and when the charcoal is good and hot, turn off the
gas. Just be sure to use pure charcoal, not that chemical laced "match
light" stuff.
I use my smoker about once a month. There is no need to soak the
smoking wood. It's actually better to get as much early smoke as
possible. When the meat is "sealed" from the heat it can't absorb much
more smoke. I learned this many years ago but started with the same
theory as you - to provide constant smoke by soaking the wood.
-------

Not soaking the chips get flames and little smoke in my experience.

There are two sides on that subject. I use both larger pieces and chips
with similar results and plenty of smoke. Maybe you need to use more
smoking wood? The wet chips delay the process. You want the meat to
get hit with a lot of smoke as early as possible.
I learned that also, use chips with a few larger chunks on top. The chip start smolder quickly and
get the large chunks going.

I don't have problems with flames, but that may be because I use an electric element and a baking
pan for the chips.

John (Gun Nut) H.
I put the smoking wood right on the red-hot charcoal. That would make a
difference.
Try wrapping them in some tin foil.

John (Gun Nut) H.
The key is early smoke and a lot of it. Tin foil would slow that down.

The key is low and slow.

iBoaterer[_3_]

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 08:09:06 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:

What would make you think that a new bag is more sanitary than a
reusable one?

There is no chicken **** in a plastic bag processing plant.

Chicken **** isn't the only non-sanitary thing in the world.

These plastic bags are made at a high temperature, packaged and
shipped without much human contact at all.

Until the moment they leave the factory.

There is not much chance for contamination. Once you start throwing
raw meat and unwashed produce in a bag there are all sorts of
opportunities for bacteria growth. There is also the problem that a
cloth bag absorbs water and whatever contaminants making a perfect
breeding ground. These contaminants are also more likely to leach out
into the seats of your car, reinfecting a clean bag.

Sure there is. What was in the truck before it was loaded with bags to
ship?

I did not make this up. Many other people with better credentials than
all of us agree.
It is possible to wash and preserve a reusable bag with a modicum of
cleanliness but that is not what most people will do

Cite?

iBoaterer[_3_]

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 13:57:20 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 08:09:06 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:

What would make you think that a new bag is more sanitary than a
reusable one?

There is no chicken **** in a plastic bag processing plant.

Chicken **** isn't the only non-sanitary thing in the world.

It is not the only thing but E-coli is the heavy hitter in most food
poisoning.

These plastic bags are made at a high temperature, packaged and
shipped without much human contact at all.

Until the moment they leave the factory.

They stay packed up pretty well until they are taken out to the
register in bundles of 50 or so. The ones in the middle of that pack
will remain about as clean as they were at the factory until it is
exposed at the counter..

And you are sure you won't get one that's on the outside?

There is not much chance for contamination. Once you start throwing
raw meat and unwashed produce in a bag there are all sorts of
opportunities for bacteria growth. There is also the problem that a
cloth bag absorbs water and whatever contaminants making a perfect
breeding ground. These contaminants are also more likely to leach out
into the seats of your car, reinfecting a clean bag.

Sure there is. What was in the truck before it was loaded with bags to
ship?

See above

I did not make this up. Many other people with better credentials than
all of us agree.
It is possible to wash and preserve a reusable bag with a modicum of
cleanliness but that is not what most people will do

Cite?

http://www.uanews.org/story/reusable-grocery-bags-contaminated-e-coli-other-bacteria

There are dozens of other articles that reference this study and the
one at Loma Linda.

This shows that they are cleaner than plastic disposable bags HOW?

iBoaterer[_3_]

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 16:40:40 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 13:57:20 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:

These plastic bags are made at a high temperature, packaged and
shipped without much human contact at all.

Until the moment they leave the factory.

They stay packed up pretty well until they are taken out to the
register in bundles of 50 or so. The ones in the middle of that pack
will remain about as clean as they were at the factory until it is
exposed at the counter..

And you are sure you won't get one that's on the outside?

They usually screw that one up putting it on the rack but the INSIDE
of that bag should still be fairly clean, not like the inside of a
cloth bag that has been a petri dish for a few months.

Cite?

http://www.uanews.org/story/reusable-grocery-bags-contaminated-e-coli-other-bacteria

There are dozens of other articles that reference this study and the
one at Loma Linda.

This shows that they are cleaner than plastic disposable bags HOW?

This shows they are DIRTIER than a freshly manufactured plastic bag.
If you really think manufactured goods are dirty, I assume you never
use paper napkins, plates, cups or plastic forks without washing them.

No, it simply shows they are dirty.

iBoaterer[_3_]

In article ,
says...

On Fri, 28 Jun 2013 11:01:42 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 16:40:40 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 13:57:20 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:

These plastic bags are made at a high temperature, packaged and
shipped without much human contact at all.

Until the moment they leave the factory.

They stay packed up pretty well until they are taken out to the
register in bundles of 50 or so. The ones in the middle of that pack
will remain about as clean as they were at the factory until it is
exposed at the counter..

And you are sure you won't get one that's on the outside?

They usually screw that one up putting it on the rack but the INSIDE
of that bag should still be fairly clean, not like the inside of a
cloth bag that has been a petri dish for a few months.

Cite?

http://www.uanews.org/story/reusable-grocery-bags-contaminated-e-coli-other-bacteria

There are dozens of other articles that reference this study and the
one at Loma Linda.

This shows that they are cleaner than plastic disposable bags HOW?

This shows they are DIRTIER than a freshly manufactured plastic bag.
If you really think manufactured goods are dirty, I assume you never
use paper napkins, plates, cups or plastic forks without washing them.

No, it simply shows they are dirty.

find me a story about how dirty a new plastic bag is.

That's what I asked YOU to do, YOU were the one that claimed they
weren't!

Until that time I will be shopping at places that give me a new bag
every time and I will recycle it (put it in the trash where it gets
burned to make electricity)

Earl[_91_]

John H wrote:
On Wed, 26 Jun 2013 19:49:52 -0400, Earl wrote:

John H wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 20:28:12 -0400, Earl wrote:

John H wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 19:53:17 -0400, Earl wrote:

Califbill wrote:
"Earl" wrote in message
...

wrote:
On Fri, 21 Jun 2013 08:46:37 -0700, "Califbill"
wrote:

We bbq mostly chicken, pork and fish. If you have a wood burning grill,
then you will get more flavor. Gas, you might as well use the
broiler. We
have an electric skillet with a broiler lid, so not even a lot of
mess to
clean up.
That is why I throw hickory chips in there.
I have a spare "floater" from my spa that I drop in a bucket of water
with a handful of chips and let them soak an hour or so and they smoke
up real good.
For chicken or ribs I sometimes use charcoal. Put the charcoal in,
fire up the gas and when the charcoal is good and hot, turn off the
gas. Just be sure to use pure charcoal, not that chemical laced "match
light" stuff.
I use my smoker about once a month. There is no need to soak the
smoking wood. It's actually better to get as much early smoke as
possible. When the meat is "sealed" from the heat it can't absorb much
more smoke. I learned this many years ago but started with the same
theory as you - to provide constant smoke by soaking the wood.
-------

Not soaking the chips get flames and little smoke in my experience.

There are two sides on that subject. I use both larger pieces and chips
with similar results and plenty of smoke. Maybe you need to use more
smoking wood? The wet chips delay the process. You want the meat to
get hit with a lot of smoke as early as possible.
I learned that also, use chips with a few larger chunks on top. The chip start smolder quickly and
get the large chunks going.

I don't have problems with flames, but that may be because I use an electric element and a baking
pan for the chips.

John (Gun Nut) H.
I put the smoking wood right on the red-hot charcoal. That would make a
difference.
Try wrapping them in some tin foil.

John (Gun Nut) H.
The key is early smoke and a lot of it. Tin foil would slow that down.
Not if there's enough holes in it! :)

John (Gun Nut) H.
Trust me on this one!

Earl[_91_]

iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...
John H wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 20:28:12 -0400, Earl wrote:

John H wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 19:53:17 -0400, Earl wrote:

Califbill wrote:
"Earl" wrote in message
...

wrote:
On Fri, 21 Jun 2013 08:46:37 -0700, "Califbill"
wrote:

We bbq mostly chicken, pork and fish. If you have a wood burning grill,
then you will get more flavor. Gas, you might as well use the
broiler. We
have an electric skillet with a broiler lid, so not even a lot of
mess to
clean up.
That is why I throw hickory chips in there.
I have a spare "floater" from my spa that I drop in a bucket of water
with a handful of chips and let them soak an hour or so and they smoke
up real good.
For chicken or ribs I sometimes use charcoal. Put the charcoal in,
fire up the gas and when the charcoal is good and hot, turn off the
gas. Just be sure to use pure charcoal, not that chemical laced "match
light" stuff.
I use my smoker about once a month. There is no need to soak the
smoking wood. It's actually better to get as much early smoke as
possible. When the meat is "sealed" from the heat it can't absorb much
more smoke. I learned this many years ago but started with the same
theory as you - to provide constant smoke by soaking the wood.
-------

Not soaking the chips get flames and little smoke in my experience.

There are two sides on that subject. I use both larger pieces and chips
with similar results and plenty of smoke. Maybe you need to use more
smoking wood? The wet chips delay the process. You want the meat to
get hit with a lot of smoke as early as possible.
I learned that also, use chips with a few larger chunks on top. The chip start smolder quickly and
get the large chunks going.

I don't have problems with flames, but that may be because I use an electric element and a baking
pan for the chips.

John (Gun Nut) H.
I put the smoking wood right on the red-hot charcoal. That would make a
difference.
Try wrapping them in some tin foil.

John (Gun Nut) H.
The key is early smoke and a lot of it. Tin foil would slow that down.
The key is low and slow.
Sure - as far as temperature is concerned for cooking the meat. The
smoke has to be introduced early.

iBoaterer[_3_]

In article ,
says...

On Fri, 28 Jun 2013 13:17:48 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:

find me a story about how dirty a new plastic bag is.

That's what I asked YOU to do, YOU were the one that claimed they
weren't!

Yeah, prove a negative, that is your style

YOU said that plastic bags were cleaner. That's not a negative, and it
is us to YOU (the person who made the statement) to prove that.

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