Gun control deal done
 

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 13:44:08 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:

In article ,
says...

"J Herring" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 09:16:03 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:



"J Herring" wrote in message
.. .

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 08:19:36 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

-------------------------------------------------

Are you saying that right also extends to convicted felons, people
with serious mental health issues, alcoholics and drug addicts?


The Constitution does not exclude them.

But then again, a convicted felon forfeited some of his rights. Those
with serious mental health
issues could easily be considered a danger to themselves and/or
society. Alcoholics and drug
addicts? How would that he controlled. I doubt if AA or NA are going
to provide lists of members.
And besides, members don't 'sign up' or register to be a member.

--------------------------------------

I don't know about other states but the gun permit application in MA
has specific questions regarding drug addiction and/or a history of
"habitual drunkenness" or treatment for alcohol abuse. There's a
reason for that. I believe answering in the affirmative will
disqualify the applicant for a permit. They may qualify following a
treatment program and a doctor's statement that the person has
successfully been drug or alcohol free for a period of 5 years.
Both
addictions are considered to be mental health issues.

Having had some up close and personal experience in the past year
with
an alcoholic who we were finally able to get into a program for
recovery, I can completely support that restriction. Drug and
alcohol addiction can totally change a person into someone you would
never recognize.


Seems silly. A recovering alcoholic, one who's not had a drink for
over five years, let's say, would
need a doctor to attest to that? How the hell would a doctor know? The
Form 4473 has a similar
question about addiction to marijuana, narcotics, etc. It would be
very easy for a slightly less
than honest person to simply say 'no'. Unless there were some record
or conviction, he 'd get away
with it.

I've gone through the same experience you have with an alcoholic. The
individual, a brother, has
been sober for several years now. I wouldn't hesitate to let him buy a
firearm. He's also a retired
cop.

--------------------------------------------------------

Silly?

When you think your brother was mentally responsible enough to own
firearms? A month or two into his recovery? A year?

I guess it depends on the circumstances, but it's the reason the
question is asked on the questionnaires. Sure, if you lie you might
get away with it until it catches up with you. That's a crime also.

The experience we had was one of the most difficult times I've had in
my life. The person was hell bent on self-destruction due to many
issues and pressures and his personality completely changed, often
ugly. It finally started to take a turn for the better when I
happened to visit to check up on him and found him in an alcohol
induced coma. He was going into respiratory failure and I had to
shake and slap him around until the paramedics arrived to keep him
breathing. His blood alcohol level was measured at the hospital at
450 (.45 in more common terminology). .08 is the level normally
considered to be "drunk". Anything over .35 (or 350) is considered
a lethal dose.

Eisboch, I've been in the same boat, watched someone go through
alcoholism to the point of near death. You are right, when is this
person stable enough to own a gun? I know that when helping someone
through this, after finding him near dead, that he certainly wasn't *ok*
for a LONG time, two years after he had been sober he still talked about
suicide, etc.

It's really hard to tell when/if a person is again responsible... had
similar with a relative who got into pills. Everything seemed fine for
several years, then he was back at it again wihout much warning. Same
thing.. talked about suicide by cop. Then backed away from it when we
called CMH.

Gun control deal done
 

On 4/11/2013 12:39 PM, J Herring wrote:
On 11 Apr 2013 16:23:45 GMT, F.O.A.D. wrote:

J Herring wrote:
On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 10:50:25 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/11/13 10:32 AM, J Herring wrote:
On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 10:17:18 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/11/13 10:12 AM, J Herring wrote:
On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 09:30:26 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/11/13 8:30 AM, J Herring wrote:
On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 08:19:36 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:



"BAR" wrote in message
. ..

In article ,
says...

"BAR" wrote in message
. ..

In article ,
says...

On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 09:06:53 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:

Details at 11.

Something is better than nothing! (I ****ing hope so anyway!)

I must have missed the constitution amendment process?

--------------------------------------

The Constitution says you have the right to bear arms and you do.

The Constitution says we all have the right to keep and bear arms.

-------------------------------------------------

Are you saying that right also extends to convicted felons, people
with serious mental health issues, alcoholics and drug addicts?


The Constitution does not exclude them.

But then again, a convicted felon forfeited some of his rights.
Those with serious mental health
issues could easily be considered a danger to themselves and/or
society. Alcoholics and drug
addicts? How would that he controlled. I doubt if AA or NA are
going to provide lists of members.
And besides, members don't 'sign up' or register to be a member.


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand.


I don't know what the regs are in a loose state like Virginia, but in
Maryland if you are buying a firearm, you have to fill out a
questionnaire for the state police on which you state under criminal
penalties whether you are of legal age, whether you are engaging in a
straw purchase, whether you've been convicted of a crime of violence,
whether you've been convicted of a misdemeanor act of domestic violence,
whether you are the respondent in a protective order, whether you've
been committed to a mental institution, whether you are a habitual
drunkard, et cetera. Say yes to any of 'em and your app is denied and
you might get arrested.

Anyone here a heavy drinker?



Completion of the ATF Form 4473 is a requirement in Virginia. I
would assume the same is true of
Maryland, as it's a Federal form. But who knows? Maryland may have
its own form which asks the same
questions.


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand.


Maryland has its own form. Two pages, one for the applicant, one for the
dealer. Similar and duplicative in many areas of federal form. Remember,
in Maryland, the state police get involved in your app to buy a pistol.

Well, that explains it then. Now I know why Maryland is such a safe
state in which to reside. Well,
except for certain parts, that is. If I were walking through PG County
or B'more at night, I'd damn
sure consider that a 'special circumstance'!


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand.



I know this will be difficult for a racist bigot like you to understand,
Herring, but there are some beautiful, rural areas of PG County that are
much nicer than where you live but where decent people do live and
aren't particularly impacted by street crime. We dine at a couple of
locally owned restaurants in PG County, and never feel any "fear."

Harry, must you always resort to name-calling. Does your continuous
reference to the MS-13 gangs
overrunning Fairfax County not make you just as much a racist bigot? I've
driven through PG County
quite often. You're right, there are some pretty, rural areas there. But,
if my car broke down at
2AM in one of those pretty, rural areas, I'd definitely consider that a
special circumstance!


We've been in Baltimore many fine days and evenings in all parts of the
city, and have never been accosted or even felt like we were under a
threat. A few weeks ago, while returning home from National Airport one
evening, the Suitland Parkway was blocked because of an accident, and we
had to detour to a part of DC/Maryland you would consider dangerous. I
got a bit lost and stopped at a convenience store/gas station to get out
and ask for directions. I said "hi" to the guys milling around and they
said "hi" back. No sweat.

I think your white man's culture of privilege is blinding you.


You are so brave! What a man, Harry. No wonder Donnie is so enthralled!
Yes, I've been to Baltimore
also. There are some beautiful spots in that fine town. There are also
some spots I would not want
to find myself at 2AM. But then again, I'm not you.

Actually, it's the continuous reporting of the crime in PG County and
B'more that's blinding me.

I'm guessing the special circumstances were a walk in your back yard
where all the 'critters' and
the owls live. Hell, I can understand your having a round chambered under those 'special
circumstances'.


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand.

It must be awful to be as afraid of people as you are.

Well, I've never walked around with a round chambered because of 'special circumstances' - at least
in this country anyway.


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand.


LOL!

Gun control deal done
 

JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote:
On 4/11/2013 12:39 PM, J Herring wrote:
On 11 Apr 2013 16:23:45 GMT, F.O.A.D. wrote:

J Herring wrote:
On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 10:50:25 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/11/13 10:32 AM, J Herring wrote:
On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 10:17:18 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/11/13 10:12 AM, J Herring wrote:
On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 09:30:26 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/11/13 8:30 AM, J Herring wrote:
On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 08:19:36 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:



"BAR" wrote in message
. ..

In article ,
says...

"BAR" wrote in message
. ..

In article ,
says...

On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 09:06:53 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:

Details at 11.

Something is better than nothing! (I ****ing hope so anyway!)

I must have missed the constitution amendment process?

--------------------------------------

The Constitution says you have the right to bear arms and you do.

The Constitution says we all have the right to keep and bear arms.

-------------------------------------------------

Are you saying that right also extends to convicted felons, people
with serious mental health issues, alcoholics and drug addicts?


The Constitution does not exclude them.

But then again, a convicted felon forfeited some of his rights.
Those with serious mental health
issues could easily be considered a danger to themselves and/or
society. Alcoholics and drug
addicts? How would that he controlled. I doubt if AA or NA are
going to provide lists of members.
And besides, members don't 'sign up' or register to be a member.


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand.


I don't know what the regs are in a loose state like Virginia, but in
Maryland if you are buying a firearm, you have to fill out a
questionnaire for the state police on which you state under criminal
penalties whether you are of legal age, whether you are engaging in a
straw purchase, whether you've been convicted of a crime of violence,
whether you've been convicted of a misdemeanor act of domestic violence,
whether you are the respondent in a protective order, whether you've
been committed to a mental institution, whether you are a habitual
drunkard, et cetera. Say yes to any of 'em and your app is denied and
you might get arrested.

Anyone here a heavy drinker?



Completion of the ATF Form 4473 is a requirement in Virginia. I
would assume the same is true of
Maryland, as it's a Federal form. But who knows? Maryland may have
its own form which asks the same
questions.


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand.


Maryland has its own form. Two pages, one for the applicant, one for the
dealer. Similar and duplicative in many areas of federal form. Remember,
in Maryland, the state police get involved in your app to buy a pistol.

Well, that explains it then. Now I know why Maryland is such a safe
state in which to reside. Well,
except for certain parts, that is. If I were walking through PG County
or B'more at night, I'd damn
sure consider that a 'special circumstance'!


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand.



I know this will be difficult for a racist bigot like you to understand,
Herring, but there are some beautiful, rural areas of PG County that are
much nicer than where you live but where decent people do live and
aren't particularly impacted by street crime. We dine at a couple of
locally owned restaurants in PG County, and never feel any "fear."

Harry, must you always resort to name-calling. Does your continuous
reference to the MS-13 gangs
overrunning Fairfax County not make you just as much a racist bigot? I've
driven through PG County
quite often. You're right, there are some pretty, rural areas there. But,
if my car broke down at
2AM in one of those pretty, rural areas, I'd definitely consider that a
special circumstance!


We've been in Baltimore many fine days and evenings in all parts of the
city, and have never been accosted or even felt like we were under a
threat. A few weeks ago, while returning home from National Airport one
evening, the Suitland Parkway was blocked because of an accident, and we
had to detour to a part of DC/Maryland you would consider dangerous. I
got a bit lost and stopped at a convenience store/gas station to get out
and ask for directions. I said "hi" to the guys milling around and they
said "hi" back. No sweat.

I think your white man's culture of privilege is blinding you.


You are so brave! What a man, Harry. No wonder Donnie is so enthralled!
Yes, I've been to Baltimore
also. There are some beautiful spots in that fine town. There are also
some spots I would not want
to find myself at 2AM. But then again, I'm not you.

Actually, it's the continuous reporting of the crime in PG County and
B'more that's blinding me.

I'm guessing the special circumstances were a walk in your back yard
where all the 'critters' and
the owls live. Hell, I can understand your having a round chambered under those 'special
circumstances'.


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand.

It must be awful to be as afraid of people as you are.

Well, I've never walked around with a round chambered because of
'special circumstances' - at least
in this country anyway.


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand.


LOL!

What are laughing at, moron?

Gun control deal done
 

On 11 Apr 2013 17:07:35 GMT, F.O.A.D. wrote:

J Herring wrote:
On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 11:53:07 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/11/13 11:39 AM, Eisboch wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
m...

On 4/11/13 8:30 AM, J Herring wrote:
On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 08:19:36 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:




The Constitution does not exclude them.

But then again, a convicted felon forfeited some of his rights. Those
with serious mental health
issues could easily be considered a danger to themselves and/or
society. Alcoholics and drug
addicts? How would that he controlled. I doubt if AA or NA are going
to provide lists of members.
And besides, members don't 'sign up' or register to be a member.



I don't know what the regs are in a loose state like Virginia, but in
Maryland if you are buying a firearm, you have to fill out a
questionnaire for the state police on which you state under criminal
penalties whether you are of legal age, whether you are engaging in a
straw purchase, whether you've been convicted of a crime of violence,
whether you've been convicted of a misdemeanor act of domestic violence,
whether you are the respondent in a protective order, whether you've
been committed to a mental institution, whether you are a habitual
drunkard, et cetera. Say yes to any of 'em and your app is denied and
you might get arrested.

Anyone here a heavy drinker?

---------------------------------------------------------

Same here in MA. As I mentioned to John in another post habitual use
of drugs and/or alcohol can be cause for denial of a permit, but also
every time you buy a firearm from a dealer, a form similar to the one
you described .... probably the same one .... must be filled out. It
specifically asks about drug and alcohol abuse.





I have a difficult time understanding why so many on the right so
violently oppose just about anything that relates to throttling down gun
violence. I don't accept the fact that "Americans are just plain violent
and gun laws will never do anything to stop it."


Actually, the reasons are the same as the ones used by those on the left
who oppose just about
....etc. If you call something a fact, what is there to not accept about
it? It is a fact that there
are some crazy-assed folks out there who will kill people - with guns or
not with guns. A majority
of those on the right, including a majority of NRA members, agree with
the background checks. Many
of the other laws, such as the majority of the rules passed by Maryland,
are simply stupid. They'd
have done nothing to prevent the last child massacre.

However, a janitor with a concealed carry permit could have prevented it.


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand.

Mythical. The secret service and armed police could not prevent the
near-assassination of Reagan. What would you expect from a janitor whose
other job was to safeguard a large school full of kids.

No one mentioned anything about the janitor having 'another job', only a permit to carry a concealed
weapon. And, not necessarily a janitor. An armed guidance counselor could have done as well.

Shoot the gunner before he shot up twenty kids. Using your analogy, why have *any* security at the
schools or any type of gun control if in one instance it can be overcome?


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand.

Gun control deal done
 

On 11 Apr 2013 17:10:13 GMT, F.O.A.D. wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 12:15:10 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:


No, John, they don't. Perhaps you are not aware of this, but...the MS-13
gangsters are not of any particular race.

That is not really true. They are mostly Latino originating in
Salvador but I understand they have recruited some black members

I also know they are very active in Eastern Montgomery and Northern PG
county (areas adjacent to the DC line) but this is spreading all the
way down into Charles County according to my Niece in Bryans Road.


I am very happy that I have put 1300 miles between me and that area.

Latino is not a race.

But Harry, one of the prime examples you and Donnie use for calling me a racist is the comment I
made about the parents of poorly performing Mexican students not caring much about it.

Tsk, tsk.


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand.

Gun control deal done
 

J Herring wrote:
On 11 Apr 2013 17:07:35 GMT, F.O.A.D. wrote:

J Herring wrote:
On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 11:53:07 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/11/13 11:39 AM, Eisboch wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
m...

On 4/11/13 8:30 AM, J Herring wrote:
On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 08:19:36 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:




The Constitution does not exclude them.

But then again, a convicted felon forfeited some of his rights. Those
with serious mental health
issues could easily be considered a danger to themselves and/or
society. Alcoholics and drug
addicts? How would that he controlled. I doubt if AA or NA are going
to provide lists of members.
And besides, members don't 'sign up' or register to be a member.



I don't know what the regs are in a loose state like Virginia, but in
Maryland if you are buying a firearm, you have to fill out a
questionnaire for the state police on which you state under criminal
penalties whether you are of legal age, whether you are engaging in a
straw purchase, whether you've been convicted of a crime of violence,
whether you've been convicted of a misdemeanor act of domestic violence,
whether you are the respondent in a protective order, whether you've
been committed to a mental institution, whether you are a habitual
drunkard, et cetera. Say yes to any of 'em and your app is denied and
you might get arrested.

Anyone here a heavy drinker?

---------------------------------------------------------

Same here in MA. As I mentioned to John in another post habitual use
of drugs and/or alcohol can be cause for denial of a permit, but also
every time you buy a firearm from a dealer, a form similar to the one
you described .... probably the same one .... must be filled out. It
specifically asks about drug and alcohol abuse.





I have a difficult time understanding why so many on the right so
violently oppose just about anything that relates to throttling down gun
violence. I don't accept the fact that "Americans are just plain violent
and gun laws will never do anything to stop it."


Actually, the reasons are the same as the ones used by those on the left
who oppose just about
....etc. If you call something a fact, what is there to not accept about
it? It is a fact that there
are some crazy-assed folks out there who will kill people - with guns or
not with guns. A majority
of those on the right, including a majority of NRA members, agree with
the background checks. Many
of the other laws, such as the majority of the rules passed by Maryland,
are simply stupid. They'd
have done nothing to prevent the last child massacre.

However, a janitor with a concealed carry permit could have prevented it.


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand.

Mythical. The secret service and armed police could not prevent the
near-assassination of Reagan. What would you expect from a janitor whose
other job was to safeguard a large school full of kids.

No one mentioned anything about the janitor having 'another job', only a
permit to carry a concealed
weapon. And, not necessarily a janitor. An armed guidance counselor could
have done as well.

Shoot the gunner before he shot up twenty kids. Using your analogy, why
have *any* security at the
schools or any type of gun control if in one instance it can be overcome?


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand.

You make a lot of assumptions but ignore the issues.

Gun control deal done
 

J Herring wrote:
On 11 Apr 2013 17:10:13 GMT, F.O.A.D. wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 12:15:10 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:


No, John, they don't. Perhaps you are not aware of this, but...the MS-13
gangsters are not of any particular race.

That is not really true. They are mostly Latino originating in
Salvador but I understand they have recruited some black members

I also know they are very active in Eastern Montgomery and Northern PG
county (areas adjacent to the DC line) but this is spreading all the
way down into Charles County according to my Niece in Bryans Road.


I am very happy that I have put 1300 miles between me and that area.

Latino is not a race.

But Harry, one of the prime examples you and Donnie use for calling me a
racist is the comment I
made about the parents of poorly performing Mexican students not caring much about it.

Tsk, tsk.


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand.

Mexican and Latino are racial to racists like you.

Gun control deal done
 

On 11 Apr 2013 17:10:13 GMT, F.O.A.D. wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 12:15:10 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:


No, John, they don't. Perhaps you are not aware of this, but...the MS-13
gangsters are not of any particular race.

That is not really true. They are mostly Latino originating in
Salvador but I understand they have recruited some black members

I also know they are very active in Eastern Montgomery and Northern PG
county (areas adjacent to the DC line) but this is spreading all the
way down into Charles County according to my Niece in Bryans Road.


I am very happy that I have put 1300 miles between me and that area.

Latino is not a race.

What is also strange is that anytime I mention PG County or B'more, you get on a 'racism' kick. Just
why is that? Both PG County and B'more are multi-ethnic and multi-national. Yet, you seem to be
making some racist assumptions there, and then ascribing your racism to me.

Is it just a liberal thing? Special Circumstance? Or what?


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand.

Gun control deal done
 

Don't forget those neighbours down the street

Gun control deal done
 

On 11 Apr 2013 18:27:10 GMT, F.O.A.D. wrote:

J Herring wrote:
On 11 Apr 2013 17:07:35 GMT, F.O.A.D. wrote:

J Herring wrote:
On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 11:53:07 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/11/13 11:39 AM, Eisboch wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
m...

On 4/11/13 8:30 AM, J Herring wrote:
On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 08:19:36 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:




The Constitution does not exclude them.

But then again, a convicted felon forfeited some of his rights. Those
with serious mental health
issues could easily be considered a danger to themselves and/or
society. Alcoholics and drug
addicts? How would that he controlled. I doubt if AA or NA are going
to provide lists of members.
And besides, members don't 'sign up' or register to be a member.



I don't know what the regs are in a loose state like Virginia, but in
Maryland if you are buying a firearm, you have to fill out a
questionnaire for the state police on which you state under criminal
penalties whether you are of legal age, whether you are engaging in a
straw purchase, whether you've been convicted of a crime of violence,
whether you've been convicted of a misdemeanor act of domestic violence,
whether you are the respondent in a protective order, whether you've
been committed to a mental institution, whether you are a habitual
drunkard, et cetera. Say yes to any of 'em and your app is denied and
you might get arrested.

Anyone here a heavy drinker?

---------------------------------------------------------

Same here in MA. As I mentioned to John in another post habitual use
of drugs and/or alcohol can be cause for denial of a permit, but also
every time you buy a firearm from a dealer, a form similar to the one
you described .... probably the same one .... must be filled out. It
specifically asks about drug and alcohol abuse.





I have a difficult time understanding why so many on the right so
violently oppose just about anything that relates to throttling down gun
violence. I don't accept the fact that "Americans are just plain violent
and gun laws will never do anything to stop it."


Actually, the reasons are the same as the ones used by those on the left
who oppose just about
....etc. If you call something a fact, what is there to not accept about
it? It is a fact that there
are some crazy-assed folks out there who will kill people - with guns or
not with guns. A majority
of those on the right, including a majority of NRA members, agree with
the background checks. Many
of the other laws, such as the majority of the rules passed by Maryland,
are simply stupid. They'd
have done nothing to prevent the last child massacre.

However, a janitor with a concealed carry permit could have prevented it.


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand.

Mythical. The secret service and armed police could not prevent the
near-assassination of Reagan. What would you expect from a janitor whose
other job was to safeguard a large school full of kids.

No one mentioned anything about the janitor having 'another job', only a
permit to carry a concealed
weapon. And, not necessarily a janitor. An armed guidance counselor could
have done as well.

Shoot the gunner before he shot up twenty kids. Using your analogy, why
have *any* security at the
schools or any type of gun control if in one instance it can be overcome?


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand.

You make a lot of assumptions but ignore the issues.

Be so kind as to point out my errors.


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand.