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Gun control deal done
On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 07:44:16 -0400, BAR wrote:
In article , says... "BAR" wrote in message . .. In article , says... On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 09:06:53 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: Details at 11. Something is better than nothing! (I ****ing hope so anyway!) I must have missed the constitution amendment process? -------------------------------------- The Constitution says you have the right to bear arms and you do. The Constitution says we all have the right to keep and bear arms. No it doesn't. There's no word "all" in the 2nd amendment. As passed by the Congress: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. As ratified by the States and authenticated by Thomas Jefferson, Secretary of State: A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. |
Gun control deal done
On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 12:03:05 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:
"J Herring" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 09:16:03 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: "J Herring" wrote in message . .. On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 08:19:36 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: ------------------------------------------------- Are you saying that right also extends to convicted felons, people with serious mental health issues, alcoholics and drug addicts? The Constitution does not exclude them. But then again, a convicted felon forfeited some of his rights. Those with serious mental health issues could easily be considered a danger to themselves and/or society. Alcoholics and drug addicts? How would that he controlled. I doubt if AA or NA are going to provide lists of members. And besides, members don't 'sign up' or register to be a member. -------------------------------------- I don't know about other states but the gun permit application in MA has specific questions regarding drug addiction and/or a history of "habitual drunkenness" or treatment for alcohol abuse. There's a reason for that. I believe answering in the affirmative will disqualify the applicant for a permit. They may qualify following a treatment program and a doctor's statement that the person has successfully been drug or alcohol free for a period of 5 years. Both addictions are considered to be mental health issues. Having had some up close and personal experience in the past year with an alcoholic who we were finally able to get into a program for recovery, I can completely support that restriction. Drug and alcohol addiction can totally change a person into someone you would never recognize. Seems silly. A recovering alcoholic, one who's not had a drink for over five years, let's say, would need a doctor to attest to that? How the hell would a doctor know? The Form 4473 has a similar question about addiction to marijuana, narcotics, etc. It would be very easy for a slightly less than honest person to simply say 'no'. Unless there were some record or conviction, he 'd get away with it. I've gone through the same experience you have with an alcoholic. The individual, a brother, has been sober for several years now. I wouldn't hesitate to let him buy a firearm. He's also a retired cop. -------------------------------------------------------- Silly? When you think your brother was mentally responsible enough to own firearms? A month or two into his recovery? A year? He owned several firearms the whole time, and still does. I guess it depends on the circumstances, but it's the reason the question is asked on the questionnaires. Sure, if you lie you might get away with it until it catches up with you. That's a crime also. I don't have a problem with the questionnaire. I answered all the questions. How would being a *sober* alcoholic or narcotics user catch up with you? The experience we had was one of the most difficult times I've had in my life. The person was hell bent on self-destruction due to many issues and pressures and his personality completely changed, often ugly. It finally started to take a turn for the better when I happened to visit to check up on him and found him in an alcohol induced coma. He was going into respiratory failure and I had to shake and slap him around until the paramedics arrived to keep him breathing. His blood alcohol level was measured at the hospital at 450 (.45 in more common terminology). .08 is the level normally considered to be "drunk". Anything over .35 (or 350) is considered a lethal dose. Every alcoholic has to hit his/her bottom. Apparently that incident was his bottom, if he became sober afterwards. I have two brothers who are alcoholics. One is sober now and has been for several years. I'd quit visiting him (in NC) because I couldn't stand to be around him. Told his wife to call if she ever needed anything. The other one is in Seattle. We've gone up and down many times. He won't consider AA because they say the 'Our Father'. Yes, he's the atheist. There is no reason an atheist can't join AA, and there is no requirement to participate in the prayer. Hell, there's no requirement to remain in attendance during the prayer. It's simply an excuse to do nothing about his problem. He's not hit his bottom yet, and we aren't speaking now. Hopefully he'll call for help before hitting a bottom that hurts or kills him. You can only do so much. Salmonbait -- 'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand. |
Gun control deal done
On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 08:30:13 -0400, J Herring
wrote: On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 08:19:36 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: "BAR" wrote in message m... In article , says... "BAR" wrote in message . .. In article , says... On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 09:06:53 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: Details at 11. Something is better than nothing! (I ****ing hope so anyway!) I must have missed the constitution amendment process? -------------------------------------- The Constitution says you have the right to bear arms and you do. The Constitution says we all have the right to keep and bear arms. ------------------------------------------------- Are you saying that right also extends to convicted felons, people with serious mental health issues, alcoholics and drug addicts? The Constitution does not exclude them. But then again, a convicted felon forfeited some of his rights. Those with serious mental health issues could easily be considered a danger to themselves and/or society. Alcoholics and drug addicts? How would that he controlled. I doubt if AA or NA are going to provide lists of members. And besides, members don't 'sign up' or register to be a member. Salmonbait Everytime you try and sound smart you come across sounding dumber. Did you forget there's a supreme court? |
Gun control deal done
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Gun control deal done
On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 12:48:08 -0400, J Herring wrote:
On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 12:03:05 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: "J Herring" wrote in message . .. On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 09:16:03 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: "J Herring" wrote in message ... On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 08:19:36 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: ------------------------------------------------- Are you saying that right also extends to convicted felons, people with serious mental health issues, alcoholics and drug addicts? The Constitution does not exclude them. But then again, a convicted felon forfeited some of his rights. Those with serious mental health issues could easily be considered a danger to themselves and/or society. Alcoholics and drug addicts? How would that he controlled. I doubt if AA or NA are going to provide lists of members. And besides, members don't 'sign up' or register to be a member. -------------------------------------- I don't know about other states but the gun permit application in MA has specific questions regarding drug addiction and/or a history of "habitual drunkenness" or treatment for alcohol abuse. There's a reason for that. I believe answering in the affirmative will disqualify the applicant for a permit. They may qualify following a treatment program and a doctor's statement that the person has successfully been drug or alcohol free for a period of 5 years. Both addictions are considered to be mental health issues. Having had some up close and personal experience in the past year with an alcoholic who we were finally able to get into a program for recovery, I can completely support that restriction. Drug and alcohol addiction can totally change a person into someone you would never recognize. Seems silly. A recovering alcoholic, one who's not had a drink for over five years, let's say, would need a doctor to attest to that? How the hell would a doctor know? The Form 4473 has a similar question about addiction to marijuana, narcotics, etc. It would be very easy for a slightly less than honest person to simply say 'no'. Unless there were some record or conviction, he 'd get away with it. I've gone through the same experience you have with an alcoholic. The individual, a brother, has been sober for several years now. I wouldn't hesitate to let him buy a firearm. He's also a retired cop. -------------------------------------------------------- Silly? When you think your brother was mentally responsible enough to own firearms? A month or two into his recovery? A year? He owned several firearms the whole time, and still does. I guess it depends on the circumstances, but it's the reason the question is asked on the questionnaires. Sure, if you lie you might get away with it until it catches up with you. That's a crime also. I don't have a problem with the questionnaire. I answered all the questions. How would being a *sober* alcoholic or narcotics user catch up with you? The experience we had was one of the most difficult times I've had in my life. The person was hell bent on self-destruction due to many issues and pressures and his personality completely changed, often ugly. It finally started to take a turn for the better when I happened to visit to check up on him and found him in an alcohol induced coma. He was going into respiratory failure and I had to shake and slap him around until the paramedics arrived to keep him breathing. His blood alcohol level was measured at the hospital at 450 (.45 in more common terminology). .08 is the level normally considered to be "drunk". Anything over .35 (or 350) is considered a lethal dose. Every alcoholic has to hit his/her bottom. Apparently that incident was his bottom, if he became sober afterwards. I have two brothers who are alcoholics. One is sober now and has been for several years. I'd quit visiting him (in NC) because I couldn't stand to be around him. Told his wife to call if she ever needed anything. The other one is in Seattle. We've gone up and down many times. He won't consider AA because they say the 'Our Father'. Yes, he's the atheist. There is no reason an atheist can't join AA, and there is no requirement to participate in the prayer. Hell, there's no requirement to remain in attendance during the prayer. It's simply an excuse to do nothing about his problem. He's not hit his bottom yet, and we aren't speaking now. Hopefully he'll call for help before hitting a bottom that hurts or kills him. You can only do so much. Salmonbait Forgot to mention, the one in NC is a changed person, loads of fun to be around and a damn good golfer. Salmonbait -- 'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand. |
Gun control deal done
On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 12:32:15 -0400, J Herring
wrote: On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 11:53:07 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 4/11/13 11:39 AM, Eisboch wrote: "F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 4/11/13 8:30 AM, J Herring wrote: On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 08:19:36 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: The Constitution does not exclude them. But then again, a convicted felon forfeited some of his rights. Those with serious mental health issues could easily be considered a danger to themselves and/or society. Alcoholics and drug addicts? How would that he controlled. I doubt if AA or NA are going to provide lists of members. And besides, members don't 'sign up' or register to be a member. I don't know what the regs are in a loose state like Virginia, but in Maryland if you are buying a firearm, you have to fill out a questionnaire for the state police on which you state under criminal penalties whether you are of legal age, whether you are engaging in a straw purchase, whether you've been convicted of a crime of violence, whether you've been convicted of a misdemeanor act of domestic violence, whether you are the respondent in a protective order, whether you've been committed to a mental institution, whether you are a habitual drunkard, et cetera. Say yes to any of 'em and your app is denied and you might get arrested. Anyone here a heavy drinker? --------------------------------------------------------- Same here in MA. As I mentioned to John in another post habitual use of drugs and/or alcohol can be cause for denial of a permit, but also every time you buy a firearm from a dealer, a form similar to the one you described .... probably the same one .... must be filled out. It specifically asks about drug and alcohol abuse. I have a difficult time understanding why so many on the right so violently oppose just about anything that relates to throttling down gun violence. I don't accept the fact that "Americans are just plain violent and gun laws will never do anything to stop it." Actually, the reasons are the same as the ones used by those on the left who oppose just about ....etc. If you call something a fact, what is there to not accept about it? It is a fact that there are some crazy-assed folks out there who will kill people - with guns or not with guns. A majority of those on the right, including a majority of NRA members, agree with the background checks. Many of the other laws, such as the majority of the rules passed by Maryland, are simply stupid. They'd have done nothing to prevent the last child massacre. However, a janitor with a concealed carry permit could have prevented it. Salmonbait Complete and total bull****. First, while someone with a knife might kill someone, they're not going to be killing 20 kids and 6 adults in about 10 minutes. Second, there was armed security at Columbine, and it made no difference even though the guy engaged the shooters. |
Gun control deal done
J Herring wrote:
On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 11:53:07 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 4/11/13 11:39 AM, Eisboch wrote: "F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 4/11/13 8:30 AM, J Herring wrote: On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 08:19:36 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: The Constitution does not exclude them. But then again, a convicted felon forfeited some of his rights. Those with serious mental health issues could easily be considered a danger to themselves and/or society. Alcoholics and drug addicts? How would that he controlled. I doubt if AA or NA are going to provide lists of members. And besides, members don't 'sign up' or register to be a member. I don't know what the regs are in a loose state like Virginia, but in Maryland if you are buying a firearm, you have to fill out a questionnaire for the state police on which you state under criminal penalties whether you are of legal age, whether you are engaging in a straw purchase, whether you've been convicted of a crime of violence, whether you've been convicted of a misdemeanor act of domestic violence, whether you are the respondent in a protective order, whether you've been committed to a mental institution, whether you are a habitual drunkard, et cetera. Say yes to any of 'em and your app is denied and you might get arrested. Anyone here a heavy drinker? --------------------------------------------------------- Same here in MA. As I mentioned to John in another post habitual use of drugs and/or alcohol can be cause for denial of a permit, but also every time you buy a firearm from a dealer, a form similar to the one you described .... probably the same one .... must be filled out. It specifically asks about drug and alcohol abuse. I have a difficult time understanding why so many on the right so violently oppose just about anything that relates to throttling down gun violence. I don't accept the fact that "Americans are just plain violent and gun laws will never do anything to stop it." Actually, the reasons are the same as the ones used by those on the left who oppose just about ....etc. If you call something a fact, what is there to not accept about it? It is a fact that there are some crazy-assed folks out there who will kill people - with guns or not with guns. A majority of those on the right, including a majority of NRA members, agree with the background checks. Many of the other laws, such as the majority of the rules passed by Maryland, are simply stupid. They'd have done nothing to prevent the last child massacre. However, a janitor with a concealed carry permit could have prevented it. Salmonbait -- 'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand. Mythical. The secret service and armed police could not prevent the near-assassination of Reagan. What would you expect from a janitor whose other job was to safeguard a large school full of kids. |
Gun control deal done
wrote:
On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 12:15:10 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: No, John, they don't. Perhaps you are not aware of this, but...the MS-13 gangsters are not of any particular race. That is not really true. They are mostly Latino originating in Salvador but I understand they have recruited some black members I also know they are very active in Eastern Montgomery and Northern PG county (areas adjacent to the DC line) but this is spreading all the way down into Charles County according to my Niece in Bryans Road. I am very happy that I have put 1300 miles between me and that area. Latino is not a race. |
Gun control deal done
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Gun control deal done
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