In article , says...

On 3/31/2012 10:52 AM, Oscar wrote:
On 3/31/2012 8:21 AM, wrote:

What law? Tell me how the Hold-Your-Ground Law even remotely applies
in this case. JPS can't. Can you?

If Martin sought to confront Zimmerman, you begin to have confusion
and contributory stupidity.

So, how did we get here? The police chief, Bill Lee refused to pursue
charges citing a law that most assuredly DID NOT APPLY.

I agree.

This has nothing to do with "gun interests," but I do hear from my
right-wing friends that Martin "had it coming." I see enough anger in
this newsgroup to believe this attitude is endemic among that crowd.

I am slightly right leaning and I say you are wrong on this point.


Not one person here indicated that Martin had it coming, didn't even
suggest it. harry has no friends, harry certainly has no right leaning
friends, and if he did, they certainly didn't say Martin had it coming.
Not even one of them...

So you agree that Zimmerman was wrong now, eh?

There?s a lull in the transmission and you can hear Zimmerman mutter
clearly to himself: "These assholes... They always get away." On other
calls between Zimmerman and the 911 dispatcher he refers to "f***ing
coons". CNN says the words are indistinct, which they aren?t. CNN also
says the case is "complicated", which it isn?t.

Later the Martin family lawyer relays Trayvon?s girlfriend?s account of
her last call with him. She says he told her that he was being followed.
She said: "Run". He said, "I'm not going to run, I'm just going to walk
fast." The girl later heard Trayvon say, "Why are you following me?" and
then another man ? Zimmmerman ? saying, "What are you doing around
here?" The girl thinks she heard a scuffle because Trayvon?s voice
changed as if something had interrupted his speech.

Mary Cutcher was in her kitchen making coffee that night with her
roommate, Selma Mora Lamilla. The window was open, she said."We heard a
whining. Not like a crying, boohoo, but like a whining, someone in
distress, and then the gunshot," she tells Anderson Cooper on CNN?s 360
show.

They looked out of the window but saw nothing. It was dark. They ran out
of the sliding glass door, and within seconds, they saw Zimmerman.

"Zimmerman was standing over the body... basically straddling the body
with his hands on Trayvon's back," Cutcher said. "And it didn't seem to
me that he was trying to help him in any way. I didn't hear any struggle
prior to the gunshot.

"And I feel like it was Trayvon Martin that was crying out, because the
minute that the gunshot went off, the whining stopped."

The two women said they could not see whether Zimmerman was bruised or
hurt. It was too dark.

"Selma asked him three times, 'What's going on over there?' " Cutcher
said. "He looks back and doesn't say anything. She asks him again,
'Everything OK? What's going on?' Same thing: looked at us, looked back.
Finally, the third time, he said, 'Just call the police.' "

The women, one white and one Latina, say flatly they don?t believe
Zimmerman?s story of how Martin had suddenly attacked him, punched him
in the face, broke his nose and that when Zimmerman ? larger than Martin
? feels he?s being overpowered he pulls out the gun and shoots Martin
through the chest. (Later Zimmerman declined medical attention.)



Read mo http://www.theweek.co.uk/us/trayvon-...46098/trayvon-
martin-republicans-shoot-themselves-foot-again#ixzz1qi1fvOV9

On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 11:35:41 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

In article , says...

On 3/31/2012 10:52 AM, Oscar wrote:
On 3/31/2012 8:21 AM, wrote:

What law? Tell me how the Hold-Your-Ground Law even remotely applies
in this case. JPS can't. Can you?

If Martin sought to confront Zimmerman, you begin to have confusion
and contributory stupidity.

So, how did we get here? The police chief, Bill Lee refused to pursue
charges citing a law that most assuredly DID NOT APPLY.

I agree.

This has nothing to do with "gun interests," but I do hear from my
right-wing friends that Martin "had it coming." I see enough anger in
this newsgroup to believe this attitude is endemic among that crowd.

I am slightly right leaning and I say you are wrong on this point.


Not one person here indicated that Martin had it coming, didn't even
suggest it. harry has no friends, harry certainly has no right leaning
friends, and if he did, they certainly didn't say Martin had it coming.
Not even one of them...

So you agree that Zimmerman was wrong now, eh?


A good friend of someone's made this famous quote. It's very applicable to the sentence above:

"WHooooooosh... man you are stupid, Asshole. "

On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 11:29:00 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 08:21:53 -0400, wrote:

This has nothing to do with "gun interests," but I do hear from my
right-wing friends that Martin "had it coming." I see enough anger in
this newsgroup to believe this attitude is endemic among that crowd.

===

Perhaps with some but certainly not all. Among the owners and CCP
holders that I know, a fairly conservative group, there is a general
consensus that Zimmerman over reached the bounds of both "Stand Your
Ground" and the concealed carry laws. The required FL CCP courses
make a major point that the permit confers no police power whatsoever
and that CCP holders should *never* attempt to apprehend or detain a
suspect. Zimmerman was out of line the moment he got out of his
vehicle.

But that's not what FOX told the viewers.....

Most of us, excluding yourself of course, don't spend our life watching FOX News. I've no idea what
they're saying over there. Apparently you're well versed in it. Good for you, I guess.

Take care, Fred. I'll probably plonk you now.

On 3/31/12 10:38 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 09:49:07 -0400, X ` wrote:

On 3/31/12 9:41 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

On 3/30/12 10:46 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:22:21 -0400, X ` wrote:

...I like this, a lot.

Travelers Can Save The Next Trayvon Martin By Avoiding Florida

A crucial fact thus far left out of the debate surrounding the shooting
of Trayvon Martin is that Florida's Stand Your Ground law, which is
keeping George Zimmerman out of jail, affects more people from outside
the state than it does Floridians.

According to census data, 19,057,542 Americans lived in Florida in 2011,
a year in which the state claims 85.9 million tourists visited. Florida
law must, in short, not only protect the liberties of Floridians, but
also the wellbeing of tourists and tourism, the state's largest sector.
The piece of legislation allowing residents "to stand [their] ground and
meet force with force, including deadly force," which left Zimmerman
legally unencumbered to shoot an unarmed teen, has consequences for all
those visitors. The law's existence also ought to have consequences for
the state.

In 2003, the advocacy group Oceana began a boycott of Royal Caribbean
Cruises, demanding the company install wastewater purification systems
and stop leaching toxins into the seas. Royal Caribbean, a company with
a market cap over $6 billion, agreed to the changes after receiving just
90,000 pledges from cruisers who said they wouldn't book trips until the
cruise giant quite literally cleaned up its act. That same year, Royal
Caribbean took roughly 3 million people to sea, meaning a mere three
percent of its customers affected a major policy shift by threatening to
withhold their dollars.

Because tourism is such a big business, travelers are more empowered
than other sorts of consumers to make demands. (Ask a Burmese official
about it some time.)

If tourists boycott Florida -- as tourists boycotted Arizona after
controversial legislation was enacted there in 2010 -- the state will
have to choose between economic Russian roulette and putting the guns
down altogether. As long as Florida depends on tourists' money -- to the
tune of roughly 9.3 percent of G.D.P and a million jobs -- the state's
government has a motivation to protect citizens of Oregon, Illinois and,
for that matter, Brazil, Germany and Japan. A simple reminder of that
fact might go a long way pushing politicians to eliminate a law that
demonstrably endangers the safety of everyone in the Sunshine State.

By pledging not to visit Florida (sorry Grandma), non-Floridians can
affect change.

There are major issues at play in the Trayvon Martin case -- race and
the second amendment among them. Given the gravity of the situation,
neither truth nor reconciliation are likely to arrive anytime soon.
Still, supporting an immediate solution to an immediate and
non-ideological problem could be the first step towards a resolution
that, tragically, will never bring a young man back to life.

HuffPost

Punish Florida because Zimmerman's guilty.

Oh wait, he's not been tried yet. In fact, the investigation's not even complete.

More happy horse**** from the happy horse**** crowd.


No, dummy...punish florida for its law.

You mean punish Florida for allowing its citizens to exercise their 2nd
amendment rights.


The 2nd Amendment and Florida's "stand your ground" law aren't the same
thing. The 2nd Amendment does not say you can shoot kids walking through
your neighborhood. The "stand your ground" law does, especially when
there are no real witnesses around.


Where does it say that, Fred?

It's there by implication, moron.

On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 11:07:29 -0400, JustWait
wrote:

Have you heard even one of your friends say "Martin had it coming"? Just
wondering, because nobody I know thinks that way.

===

My friends tend to be responsible adults who do not shoot fron the hip
either literally or figuratively.

On 3/31/12 11:07 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 3/31/2012 11:00 AM, Wayne B wrote:
On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 08:21:53 -0400, wrote:

This has nothing to do with "gun interests," but I do hear from my
right-wing friends that Martin "had it coming." I see enough anger in
this newsgroup to believe this attitude is endemic among that crowd.

===

Perhaps with some but certainly not all. Among the owners and CCP
holders that I know, a fairly conservative group, there is a general
consensus that Zimmerman over reached the bounds of both "Stand Your
Ground" and the concealed carry laws. The required FL CCP courses
make a major point that the permit confers no police power whatsoever
and that CCP holders should *never* attempt to apprehend or detain a
suspect. Zimmerman was out of line the moment he got out of his
vehicle.


Have you heard even one of your friends say "Martin had it coming"? Just
wondering, because nobody I know thinks that way.

No one you know thinks.

On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 10:51:45 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

Florida's no retreat law has nothing to do with the second amendment.

===

That is correct. It allows you to meet deadly force with deadly
force, whatever that might be - gun, knife, Louisville Slugger, etc.

On 3/31/12 12:07 PM, Wayne B wrote:
On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 10:51:45 -0400, wrote:

Florida's no retreat law has nothing to do with the second amendment.

===

That is correct. It allows you to meet deadly force with deadly
force, whatever that might be - gun, knife, Louisville Slugger, etc.


Or a bag of Skittles...

On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 12:03:24 -0400, Wayne B wrote:

On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 11:07:29 -0400, JustWait
wrote:

Have you heard even one of your friends say "Martin had it coming"? Just
wondering, because nobody I know thinks that way.

===

My friends tend to be responsible adults who do not shoot fron the hip
either literally or figuratively.

I've not heard that either, except from liberals supposedly quoting conservatives.

On 3/31/12 12:37 PM, Happy John wrote:
On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 12:03:24 -0400, Wayne wrote:

On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 11:07:29 -0400,
wrote:

Have you heard even one of your friends say "Martin had it coming"? Just
wondering, because nobody I know thinks that way.

===

My friends tend to be responsible adults who do not shoot fron the hip
either literally or figuratively.

I've not heard that either, except from liberals supposedly quoting conservatives.


I'm sure, John, that you've convinced all the righties in your life of
your intellectual integrity. snerk