On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 08:00:25 -0500, Boating All Out wrote:

In article ,
says...


This has nothing to do with "gun interests," but I do hear from my
right-wing friends that Martin "had it coming." I see enough anger in
this newsgroup to believe this attitude is endemic among that crowd.


Where did you see that here?
I've seen the opposite from the "left" - "Let's lynch Zimmerman."
Most of what I've seen from the "right" is reaction against that.
Just so you know, I think viewing it from the left or right is nonsense.
I'm a disinterested observer.

Nearly everybody posting here is a dumb ****, with no ability - or
inclination - to discriminate between truth and fiction.
That's why they've made this NG a joke.
Same with most of talking heads on TV.
The rules of law will sort it out, and "personal opinions" won't matter.
The bull**** about the particulars of this case is knee-deep.
Most from the "left."
A grainy tape of Zimmerman arriving at the police station "proves"
Zimmerman suffered no injuries, wasn't in a struggle, is a liar and
murderer.

Total fantasy.
Guess what? There are EMT reports of his injuries or non-injuries.
Those will considered in light of other evidence.
In the end, this guy might walk.
Some will like that, some won't.
Maybe he'll be convicted of something.
Some will like that, some won't.
Personally, I don't care.
The guy brought it on himself when he decided to tote a gun, and play
cop.
What happened to him and what will happen to him flows from that
decision.

The innocent are convicted and the guilty freed all the time.
Anybody is welcome to advocate for either side.
But known facts are known facts.
Making up "facts" just makes those who do it look stupid.

Now that was pretty well said!

In article ,
says...

On 3/30/12 10:46 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:22:21 -0400, X ` wrote:

...I like this, a lot.

Travelers Can Save The Next Trayvon Martin By Avoiding Florida

A crucial fact thus far left out of the debate surrounding the shooting
of Trayvon Martin is that Florida's Stand Your Ground law, which is
keeping George Zimmerman out of jail, affects more people from outside
the state than it does Floridians.

According to census data, 19,057,542 Americans lived in Florida in 2011,
a year in which the state claims 85.9 million tourists visited. Florida
law must, in short, not only protect the liberties of Floridians, but
also the wellbeing of tourists and tourism, the state's largest sector.
The piece of legislation allowing residents "to stand [their] ground and
meet force with force, including deadly force," which left Zimmerman
legally unencumbered to shoot an unarmed teen, has consequences for all
those visitors. The law's existence also ought to have consequences for
the state.

In 2003, the advocacy group Oceana began a boycott of Royal Caribbean
Cruises, demanding the company install wastewater purification systems
and stop leaching toxins into the seas. Royal Caribbean, a company with
a market cap over $6 billion, agreed to the changes after receiving just
90,000 pledges from cruisers who said they wouldn't book trips until the
cruise giant quite literally cleaned up its act. That same year, Royal
Caribbean took roughly 3 million people to sea, meaning a mere three
percent of its customers affected a major policy shift by threatening to
withhold their dollars.

Because tourism is such a big business, travelers are more empowered
than other sorts of consumers to make demands. (Ask a Burmese official
about it some time.)

If tourists boycott Florida -- as tourists boycotted Arizona after
controversial legislation was enacted there in 2010 -- the state will
have to choose between economic Russian roulette and putting the guns
down altogether. As long as Florida depends on tourists' money -- to the
tune of roughly 9.3 percent of G.D.P and a million jobs -- the state's
government has a motivation to protect citizens of Oregon, Illinois and,
for that matter, Brazil, Germany and Japan. A simple reminder of that
fact might go a long way pushing politicians to eliminate a law that
demonstrably endangers the safety of everyone in the Sunshine State.

By pledging not to visit Florida (sorry Grandma), non-Floridians can
affect change.

There are major issues at play in the Trayvon Martin case -- race and
the second amendment among them. Given the gravity of the situation,
neither truth nor reconciliation are likely to arrive anytime soon.
Still, supporting an immediate solution to an immediate and
non-ideological problem could be the first step towards a resolution
that, tragically, will never bring a young man back to life.

HuffPost

Punish Florida because Zimmerman's guilty.

Oh wait, he's not been tried yet. In fact, the investigation's not even complete.

More happy horse**** from the happy horse**** crowd.


No, dummy...punish florida for its law.

You mean punish Florida for allowing its citizens to exercise their 2nd
amendment rights.

In article ,
says...

On 3/30/12 9:50 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 11:58:52 -0400, X `
wrote:

On 3/30/12 10:46 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:22:21 -0400, X ` wrote:

...I like this, a lot.

Travelers Can Save The Next Trayvon Martin By Avoiding Florida

A crucial fact thus far left out of the debate surrounding the shooting
of Trayvon Martin is that Florida's Stand Your Ground law, which is
keeping George Zimmerman out of jail, affects more people from outside
the state than it does Floridians.

According to census data, 19,057,542 Americans lived in Florida in 2011,
a year in which the state claims 85.9 million tourists visited. Florida
law must, in short, not only protect the liberties of Floridians, but
also the wellbeing of tourists and tourism, the state's largest sector.
The piece of legislation allowing residents "to stand [their] ground and
meet force with force, including deadly force," which left Zimmerman
legally unencumbered to shoot an unarmed teen, has consequences for all
those visitors. The law's existence also ought to have consequences for
the state.

In 2003, the advocacy group Oceana began a boycott of Royal Caribbean
Cruises, demanding the company install wastewater purification systems
and stop leaching toxins into the seas. Royal Caribbean, a company with
a market cap over $6 billion, agreed to the changes after receiving just
90,000 pledges from cruisers who said they wouldn't book trips until the
cruise giant quite literally cleaned up its act. That same year, Royal
Caribbean took roughly 3 million people to sea, meaning a mere three
percent of its customers affected a major policy shift by threatening to
withhold their dollars.

Because tourism is such a big business, travelers are more empowered
than other sorts of consumers to make demands. (Ask a Burmese official
about it some time.)

If tourists boycott Florida -- as tourists boycotted Arizona after
controversial legislation was enacted there in 2010 -- the state will
have to choose between economic Russian roulette and putting the guns
down altogether. As long as Florida depends on tourists' money -- to the
tune of roughly 9.3 percent of G.D.P and a million jobs -- the state's
government has a motivation to protect citizens of Oregon, Illinois and,
for that matter, Brazil, Germany and Japan. A simple reminder of that
fact might go a long way pushing politicians to eliminate a law that
demonstrably endangers the safety of everyone in the Sunshine State.

By pledging not to visit Florida (sorry Grandma), non-Floridians can
affect change.

There are major issues at play in the Trayvon Martin case -- race and
the second amendment among them. Given the gravity of the situation,
neither truth nor reconciliation are likely to arrive anytime soon.
Still, supporting an immediate solution to an immediate and
non-ideological problem could be the first step towards a resolution
that, tragically, will never bring a young man back to life.

HuffPost

Punish Florida because Zimmerman's guilty.

Oh wait, he's not been tried yet. In fact, the investigation's not even complete.

More happy horse**** from the happy horse**** crowd.


No, dummy...punish florida for its law.

What law? Tell me how the Hold-Your-Ground Law even remotely applies
in this case. JPS can't. Can you?


Early on, the local prosecutors told the police to not arrest the
shooter because they believed he had "stood his ground." The law
emboldens imbeciles like Zimmerman and makes them think they can get
away with homicide.

It'll be interesting to see what, if any, state charges are brought
against Zimmerman, considing that the state's attorney assigned to the
case is a lackey of the right-wing extremist governor in Florida who
assuredly does not want to run afoul of "the gun interests."

Elections have consequences, ask Brian Terry. Oh, that's right he died
of action or inaction by AG Holder.

On 3/31/12 9:41 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

On 3/30/12 10:46 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:22:21 -0400, X ` wrote:

...I like this, a lot.

Travelers Can Save The Next Trayvon Martin By Avoiding Florida

A crucial fact thus far left out of the debate surrounding the shooting
of Trayvon Martin is that Florida's Stand Your Ground law, which is
keeping George Zimmerman out of jail, affects more people from outside
the state than it does Floridians.

According to census data, 19,057,542 Americans lived in Florida in 2011,
a year in which the state claims 85.9 million tourists visited. Florida
law must, in short, not only protect the liberties of Floridians, but
also the wellbeing of tourists and tourism, the state's largest sector.
The piece of legislation allowing residents "to stand [their] ground and
meet force with force, including deadly force," which left Zimmerman
legally unencumbered to shoot an unarmed teen, has consequences for all
those visitors. The law's existence also ought to have consequences for
the state.

In 2003, the advocacy group Oceana began a boycott of Royal Caribbean
Cruises, demanding the company install wastewater purification systems
and stop leaching toxins into the seas. Royal Caribbean, a company with
a market cap over $6 billion, agreed to the changes after receiving just
90,000 pledges from cruisers who said they wouldn't book trips until the
cruise giant quite literally cleaned up its act. That same year, Royal
Caribbean took roughly 3 million people to sea, meaning a mere three
percent of its customers affected a major policy shift by threatening to
withhold their dollars.

Because tourism is such a big business, travelers are more empowered
than other sorts of consumers to make demands. (Ask a Burmese official
about it some time.)

If tourists boycott Florida -- as tourists boycotted Arizona after
controversial legislation was enacted there in 2010 -- the state will
have to choose between economic Russian roulette and putting the guns
down altogether. As long as Florida depends on tourists' money -- to the
tune of roughly 9.3 percent of G.D.P and a million jobs -- the state's
government has a motivation to protect citizens of Oregon, Illinois and,
for that matter, Brazil, Germany and Japan. A simple reminder of that
fact might go a long way pushing politicians to eliminate a law that
demonstrably endangers the safety of everyone in the Sunshine State.

By pledging not to visit Florida (sorry Grandma), non-Floridians can
affect change.

There are major issues at play in the Trayvon Martin case -- race and
the second amendment among them. Given the gravity of the situation,
neither truth nor reconciliation are likely to arrive anytime soon.
Still, supporting an immediate solution to an immediate and
non-ideological problem could be the first step towards a resolution
that, tragically, will never bring a young man back to life.

HuffPost

Punish Florida because Zimmerman's guilty.

Oh wait, he's not been tried yet. In fact, the investigation's not even complete.

More happy horse**** from the happy horse**** crowd.


No, dummy...punish florida for its law.

You mean punish Florida for allowing its citizens to exercise their 2nd
amendment rights.


The 2nd Amendment and Florida's "stand your ground" law aren't the same
thing. The 2nd Amendment does not say you can shoot kids walking through
your neighborhood. The "stand your ground" law does, especially when
there are no real witnesses around.

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 08:12:27 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 15:36:38 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 11:14:08 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:22:21 -0400, X ` Man wrote:

...I like this, a lot.

Travelers Can Save The Next Trayvon Martin By Avoiding Florida

A crucial fact thus far left out of the debate surrounding the shooting
of Trayvon Martin is that Florida's Stand Your Ground law, which is
keeping George Zimmerman out of jail, affects more people from outside
the state than it does Floridians.

According to census data, 19,057,542 Americans lived in Florida in 2011,
a year in which the state claims 85.9 million tourists visited. Florida
law must, in short, not only protect the liberties of Floridians, but
also the wellbeing of tourists and tourism, the state's largest sector.
The piece of legislation allowing residents "to stand [their] ground and
meet force with force, including deadly force," which left Zimmerman
legally unencumbered to shoot an unarmed teen, has consequences for all
those visitors. The law's existence also ought to have consequences for
the state.

In 2003, the advocacy group Oceana began a boycott of Royal Caribbean
Cruises, demanding the company install wastewater purification systems
and stop leaching toxins into the seas. Royal Caribbean, a company with
a market cap over $6 billion, agreed to the changes after receiving just
90,000 pledges from cruisers who said they wouldn't book trips until the
cruise giant quite literally cleaned up its act. That same year, Royal
Caribbean took roughly 3 million people to sea, meaning a mere three
percent of its customers affected a major policy shift by threatening to
withhold their dollars.

Because tourism is such a big business, travelers are more empowered
than other sorts of consumers to make demands. (Ask a Burmese official
about it some time.)

If tourists boycott Florida -- as tourists boycotted Arizona after
controversial legislation was enacted there in 2010 -- the state will
have to choose between economic Russian roulette and putting the guns
down altogether. As long as Florida depends on tourists' money -- to the
tune of roughly 9.3 percent of G.D.P and a million jobs -- the state's
government has a motivation to protect citizens of Oregon, Illinois and,
for that matter, Brazil, Germany and Japan. A simple reminder of that
fact might go a long way pushing politicians to eliminate a law that
demonstrably endangers the safety of everyone in the Sunshine State.

By pledging not to visit Florida (sorry Grandma), non-Floridians can
affect change.

There are major issues at play in the Trayvon Martin case -- race and
the second amendment among them. Given the gravity of the situation,
neither truth nor reconciliation are likely to arrive anytime soon.
Still, supporting an immediate solution to an immediate and
non-ideological problem could be the first step towards a resolution
that, tragically, will never bring a young man back to life.

HuffPost

Punish Florida because Zimmerman's guilty.

Punish Florida because of their stupid draconian laws, yes. A tourist is
not safe if a vigilante like Zimmerman is allowed to shoot and kill
someone because they are walking around with a bag of skittles.

Oh wait, he's not been tried yet. In fact, the investigation's not even complete.

True, so why are you defending him so?

More happy horse**** from the happy horse**** crowd.

That's just stupid.


Whom am I defending? Cite? Please?

~snerk~

The same person you accuse me of trying and convicting, of course.

Cite, please? Could not find it.?

Lying again, Harry?

You really can't find it? Man you are stupid!

Fred, do you understand the difference between interrogative and declarative sentences?

Asshole, yes.

On 3/31/2012 8:21 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 07:35:03 -0400, X `
wrote:

On 3/30/12 9:50 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 11:58:52 -0400, X `
wrote:

On 3/30/12 10:46 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:22:21 -0400, X ` wrote:

...I like this, a lot.

Travelers Can Save The Next Trayvon Martin By Avoiding Florida

A crucial fact thus far left out of the debate surrounding the shooting
of Trayvon Martin is that Florida's Stand Your Ground law, which is
keeping George Zimmerman out of jail, affects more people from outside
the state than it does Floridians.

According to census data, 19,057,542 Americans lived in Florida in 2011,
a year in which the state claims 85.9 million tourists visited. Florida
law must, in short, not only protect the liberties of Floridians, but
also the wellbeing of tourists and tourism, the state's largest sector.
The piece of legislation allowing residents "to stand [their] ground and
meet force with force, including deadly force," which left Zimmerman
legally unencumbered to shoot an unarmed teen, has consequences for all
those visitors. The law's existence also ought to have consequences for
the state.

In 2003, the advocacy group Oceana began a boycott of Royal Caribbean
Cruises, demanding the company install wastewater purification systems
and stop leaching toxins into the seas. Royal Caribbean, a company with
a market cap over $6 billion, agreed to the changes after receiving just
90,000 pledges from cruisers who said they wouldn't book trips until the
cruise giant quite literally cleaned up its act. That same year, Royal
Caribbean took roughly 3 million people to sea, meaning a mere three
percent of its customers affected a major policy shift by threatening to
withhold their dollars.

Because tourism is such a big business, travelers are more empowered
than other sorts of consumers to make demands. (Ask a Burmese official
about it some time.)

If tourists boycott Florida -- as tourists boycotted Arizona after
controversial legislation was enacted there in 2010 -- the state will
have to choose between economic Russian roulette and putting the guns
down altogether. As long as Florida depends on tourists' money -- to the
tune of roughly 9.3 percent of G.D.P and a million jobs -- the state's
government has a motivation to protect citizens of Oregon, Illinois and,
for that matter, Brazil, Germany and Japan. A simple reminder of that
fact might go a long way pushing politicians to eliminate a law that
demonstrably endangers the safety of everyone in the Sunshine State.

By pledging not to visit Florida (sorry Grandma), non-Floridians can
affect change.

There are major issues at play in the Trayvon Martin case -- race and
the second amendment among them. Given the gravity of the situation,
neither truth nor reconciliation are likely to arrive anytime soon.
Still, supporting an immediate solution to an immediate and
non-ideological problem could be the first step towards a resolution
that, tragically, will never bring a young man back to life.

HuffPost

Punish Florida because Zimmerman's guilty.

Oh wait, he's not been tried yet. In fact, the investigation's not even complete.

More happy horse**** from the happy horse**** crowd.


No, dummy...punish florida for its law.

What law? Tell me how the Hold-Your-Ground Law even remotely applies
in this case. JPS can't. Can you?


Early on, the local prosecutors told the police to not arrest the
shooter because they believed he had "stood his ground." The law
emboldens imbeciles like Zimmerman and makes them think they can get
away with homicide.

It'll be interesting to see what, if any, state charges are brought
against Zimmerman, considing that the state's attorney assigned to the
case is a lackey of the right-wing extremist governor in Florida who
assuredly does not want to run afoul of "the gun interests."

That would be a big NO.

This has been my problem from the beginning: the only way this
appears to play out is that Zimmerman pursued Martin. That makes the
hold-your-ground law a moot point. IT DOES NOT APPLY.

If Martin sought to confront Zimmerman, you begin to have confusion
and contributory stupidity.

So, how did we get here? The police chief, Bill Lee refused to pursue
charges citing a law that most assuredly DID NOT APPLY.

IMHO, this is criminal nonfeasance or malfeasance of duty on the part
of the chief of police. The police botched this from the beginning.

The state is declining to comment on whether they refused to file
charges. That should be an interesting disclosure.

This has nothing to do with "gun interests," but I do hear from my
right-wing friends that Martin "had it coming." I see enough anger in
this newsgroup to believe this attitude is endemic among that crowd.

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/03/28...rge-zimmerman/

What is it with you folks only seeing one hypothetical that suits your
own personal agendas? The law doesn't have a time limit. What if
Zimmerman gave chase like everyone says, but what if after the initial
contact, Zimmerman in the course of retreat to his car was attacked? At
that point in time, Martin would be the aggressor, Zimmerman *could* be
covered by the stand your ground rule? The fact is, we still don't know
so smart folks aren't convicting him of anything yet. Especially when
you consider the huge smear and cover job the media and Al Sharpton are
pulling on us with old pictures, and mus-information...

On 3/31/2012 9:41 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

On 3/30/12 10:46 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:22:21 -0400, X ` wrote:

...I like this, a lot.

Travelers Can Save The Next Trayvon Martin By Avoiding Florida

A crucial fact thus far left out of the debate surrounding the shooting
of Trayvon Martin is that Florida's Stand Your Ground law, which is
keeping George Zimmerman out of jail, affects more people from outside
the state than it does Floridians.

According to census data, 19,057,542 Americans lived in Florida in 2011,
a year in which the state claims 85.9 million tourists visited. Florida
law must, in short, not only protect the liberties of Floridians, but
also the wellbeing of tourists and tourism, the state's largest sector.
The piece of legislation allowing residents "to stand [their] ground and
meet force with force, including deadly force," which left Zimmerman
legally unencumbered to shoot an unarmed teen, has consequences for all
those visitors. The law's existence also ought to have consequences for
the state.

In 2003, the advocacy group Oceana began a boycott of Royal Caribbean
Cruises, demanding the company install wastewater purification systems
and stop leaching toxins into the seas. Royal Caribbean, a company with
a market cap over $6 billion, agreed to the changes after receiving just
90,000 pledges from cruisers who said they wouldn't book trips until the
cruise giant quite literally cleaned up its act. That same year, Royal
Caribbean took roughly 3 million people to sea, meaning a mere three
percent of its customers affected a major policy shift by threatening to
withhold their dollars.

Because tourism is such a big business, travelers are more empowered
than other sorts of consumers to make demands. (Ask a Burmese official
about it some time.)

If tourists boycott Florida -- as tourists boycotted Arizona after
controversial legislation was enacted there in 2010 -- the state will
have to choose between economic Russian roulette and putting the guns
down altogether. As long as Florida depends on tourists' money -- to the
tune of roughly 9.3 percent of G.D.P and a million jobs -- the state's
government has a motivation to protect citizens of Oregon, Illinois and,
for that matter, Brazil, Germany and Japan. A simple reminder of that
fact might go a long way pushing politicians to eliminate a law that
demonstrably endangers the safety of everyone in the Sunshine State.

By pledging not to visit Florida (sorry Grandma), non-Floridians can
affect change.

There are major issues at play in the Trayvon Martin case -- race and
the second amendment among them. Given the gravity of the situation,
neither truth nor reconciliation are likely to arrive anytime soon.
Still, supporting an immediate solution to an immediate and
non-ideological problem could be the first step towards a resolution
that, tragically, will never bring a young man back to life.

HuffPost

Punish Florida because Zimmerman's guilty.

Oh wait, he's not been tried yet. In fact, the investigation's not even complete.

More happy horse**** from the happy horse**** crowd.


No, dummy...punish florida for its law.

You mean punish Florida for allowing its citizens to exercise their 2nd
amendment rights.

He means, punish anyone who doesn't pay into his union fund...

On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 09:49:07 -0400, X ` Man wrote:

On 3/31/12 9:41 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

On 3/30/12 10:46 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:22:21 -0400, X ` wrote:

...I like this, a lot.

Travelers Can Save The Next Trayvon Martin By Avoiding Florida

A crucial fact thus far left out of the debate surrounding the shooting
of Trayvon Martin is that Florida's Stand Your Ground law, which is
keeping George Zimmerman out of jail, affects more people from outside
the state than it does Floridians.

According to census data, 19,057,542 Americans lived in Florida in 2011,
a year in which the state claims 85.9 million tourists visited. Florida
law must, in short, not only protect the liberties of Floridians, but
also the wellbeing of tourists and tourism, the state's largest sector.
The piece of legislation allowing residents "to stand [their] ground and
meet force with force, including deadly force," which left Zimmerman
legally unencumbered to shoot an unarmed teen, has consequences for all
those visitors. The law's existence also ought to have consequences for
the state.

In 2003, the advocacy group Oceana began a boycott of Royal Caribbean
Cruises, demanding the company install wastewater purification systems
and stop leaching toxins into the seas. Royal Caribbean, a company with
a market cap over $6 billion, agreed to the changes after receiving just
90,000 pledges from cruisers who said they wouldn't book trips until the
cruise giant quite literally cleaned up its act. That same year, Royal
Caribbean took roughly 3 million people to sea, meaning a mere three
percent of its customers affected a major policy shift by threatening to
withhold their dollars.

Because tourism is such a big business, travelers are more empowered
than other sorts of consumers to make demands. (Ask a Burmese official
about it some time.)

If tourists boycott Florida -- as tourists boycotted Arizona after
controversial legislation was enacted there in 2010 -- the state will
have to choose between economic Russian roulette and putting the guns
down altogether. As long as Florida depends on tourists' money -- to the
tune of roughly 9.3 percent of G.D.P and a million jobs -- the state's
government has a motivation to protect citizens of Oregon, Illinois and,
for that matter, Brazil, Germany and Japan. A simple reminder of that
fact might go a long way pushing politicians to eliminate a law that
demonstrably endangers the safety of everyone in the Sunshine State.

By pledging not to visit Florida (sorry Grandma), non-Floridians can
affect change.

There are major issues at play in the Trayvon Martin case -- race and
the second amendment among them. Given the gravity of the situation,
neither truth nor reconciliation are likely to arrive anytime soon.
Still, supporting an immediate solution to an immediate and
non-ideological problem could be the first step towards a resolution
that, tragically, will never bring a young man back to life.

HuffPost

Punish Florida because Zimmerman's guilty.

Oh wait, he's not been tried yet. In fact, the investigation's not even complete.

More happy horse**** from the happy horse**** crowd.


No, dummy...punish florida for its law.

You mean punish Florida for allowing its citizens to exercise their 2nd
amendment rights.


The 2nd Amendment and Florida's "stand your ground" law aren't the same
thing. The 2nd Amendment does not say you can shoot kids walking through
your neighborhood. The "stand your ground" law does, especially when
there are no real witnesses around.


Where does it say that, Fred?

In article , says...

On 3/31/2012 8:21 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 07:35:03 -0400, X `
wrote:

On 3/30/12 9:50 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 11:58:52 -0400, X `
wrote:

On 3/30/12 10:46 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:22:21 -0400, X ` wrote:

...I like this, a lot.

Travelers Can Save The Next Trayvon Martin By Avoiding Florida

A crucial fact thus far left out of the debate surrounding the shooting
of Trayvon Martin is that Florida's Stand Your Ground law, which is
keeping George Zimmerman out of jail, affects more people from outside
the state than it does Floridians.

According to census data, 19,057,542 Americans lived in Florida in 2011,
a year in which the state claims 85.9 million tourists visited. Florida
law must, in short, not only protect the liberties of Floridians, but
also the wellbeing of tourists and tourism, the state's largest sector.
The piece of legislation allowing residents "to stand [their] ground and
meet force with force, including deadly force," which left Zimmerman
legally unencumbered to shoot an unarmed teen, has consequences for all
those visitors. The law's existence also ought to have consequences for
the state.

In 2003, the advocacy group Oceana began a boycott of Royal Caribbean
Cruises, demanding the company install wastewater purification systems
and stop leaching toxins into the seas. Royal Caribbean, a company with
a market cap over $6 billion, agreed to the changes after receiving just
90,000 pledges from cruisers who said they wouldn't book trips until the
cruise giant quite literally cleaned up its act. That same year, Royal
Caribbean took roughly 3 million people to sea, meaning a mere three
percent of its customers affected a major policy shift by threatening to
withhold their dollars.

Because tourism is such a big business, travelers are more empowered
than other sorts of consumers to make demands. (Ask a Burmese official
about it some time.)

If tourists boycott Florida -- as tourists boycotted Arizona after
controversial legislation was enacted there in 2010 -- the state will
have to choose between economic Russian roulette and putting the guns
down altogether. As long as Florida depends on tourists' money -- to the
tune of roughly 9.3 percent of G.D.P and a million jobs -- the state's
government has a motivation to protect citizens of Oregon, Illinois and,
for that matter, Brazil, Germany and Japan. A simple reminder of that
fact might go a long way pushing politicians to eliminate a law that
demonstrably endangers the safety of everyone in the Sunshine State.

By pledging not to visit Florida (sorry Grandma), non-Floridians can
affect change.

There are major issues at play in the Trayvon Martin case -- race and
the second amendment among them. Given the gravity of the situation,
neither truth nor reconciliation are likely to arrive anytime soon.
Still, supporting an immediate solution to an immediate and
non-ideological problem could be the first step towards a resolution
that, tragically, will never bring a young man back to life.

HuffPost

Punish Florida because Zimmerman's guilty.

Oh wait, he's not been tried yet. In fact, the investigation's not even complete.

More happy horse**** from the happy horse**** crowd.


No, dummy...punish florida for its law.

What law? Tell me how the Hold-Your-Ground Law even remotely applies
in this case. JPS can't. Can you?


Early on, the local prosecutors told the police to not arrest the
shooter because they believed he had "stood his ground." The law
emboldens imbeciles like Zimmerman and makes them think they can get
away with homicide.

It'll be interesting to see what, if any, state charges are brought
against Zimmerman, considing that the state's attorney assigned to the
case is a lackey of the right-wing extremist governor in Florida who
assuredly does not want to run afoul of "the gun interests."

That would be a big NO.

This has been my problem from the beginning: the only way this
appears to play out is that Zimmerman pursued Martin. That makes the
hold-your-ground law a moot point. IT DOES NOT APPLY.

If Martin sought to confront Zimmerman, you begin to have confusion
and contributory stupidity.

So, how did we get here? The police chief, Bill Lee refused to pursue
charges citing a law that most assuredly DID NOT APPLY.

IMHO, this is criminal nonfeasance or malfeasance of duty on the part
of the chief of police. The police botched this from the beginning.

The state is declining to comment on whether they refused to file
charges. That should be an interesting disclosure.

This has nothing to do with "gun interests," but I do hear from my
right-wing friends that Martin "had it coming." I see enough anger in
this newsgroup to believe this attitude is endemic among that crowd.

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/03/28...rge-zimmerman/

What is it with you folks only seeing one hypothetical that suits your
own personal agendas? The law doesn't have a time limit. What if
Zimmerman gave chase like everyone says, but what if after the initial
contact, Zimmerman in the course of retreat to his car was attacked? At
that point in time, Martin would be the aggressor, Zimmerman *could* be
covered by the stand your ground rule? The fact is, we still don't know
so smart folks aren't convicting him of anything yet. Especially when
you consider the huge smear and cover job the media and Al Sharpton are
pulling on us with old pictures, and mus-information...

Then why are you so quick to defend Zimmerman? Look, it's really simple.
What people are up in arms about is the TOTAL lack of investigation by
the Sanford police. There is a procedure in place for investigations in
which someone was shot to death. That procedure includes things like
toxicology reports, tests to determine at what range the person was
shot, and on and on. Couple that with the facts that the coroner saw NO
signs of a struggle on Martin. Couple that with the fact that the kid
was unarmed and just wanted some candy. Couple that with Zimmerman's
racial slur on tape. And even with all of that, you continue to defend
them because FOX tells you to.

In article , says...

On 3/31/2012 9:41 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

On 3/30/12 10:46 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:22:21 -0400, X ` wrote:

...I like this, a lot.

Travelers Can Save The Next Trayvon Martin By Avoiding Florida

A crucial fact thus far left out of the debate surrounding the shooting
of Trayvon Martin is that Florida's Stand Your Ground law, which is
keeping George Zimmerman out of jail, affects more people from outside
the state than it does Floridians.

According to census data, 19,057,542 Americans lived in Florida in 2011,
a year in which the state claims 85.9 million tourists visited. Florida
law must, in short, not only protect the liberties of Floridians, but
also the wellbeing of tourists and tourism, the state's largest sector.
The piece of legislation allowing residents "to stand [their] ground and
meet force with force, including deadly force," which left Zimmerman
legally unencumbered to shoot an unarmed teen, has consequences for all
those visitors. The law's existence also ought to have consequences for
the state.

In 2003, the advocacy group Oceana began a boycott of Royal Caribbean
Cruises, demanding the company install wastewater purification systems
and stop leaching toxins into the seas. Royal Caribbean, a company with
a market cap over $6 billion, agreed to the changes after receiving just
90,000 pledges from cruisers who said they wouldn't book trips until the
cruise giant quite literally cleaned up its act. That same year, Royal
Caribbean took roughly 3 million people to sea, meaning a mere three
percent of its customers affected a major policy shift by threatening to
withhold their dollars.

Because tourism is such a big business, travelers are more empowered
than other sorts of consumers to make demands. (Ask a Burmese official
about it some time.)

If tourists boycott Florida -- as tourists boycotted Arizona after
controversial legislation was enacted there in 2010 -- the state will
have to choose between economic Russian roulette and putting the guns
down altogether. As long as Florida depends on tourists' money -- to the
tune of roughly 9.3 percent of G.D.P and a million jobs -- the state's
government has a motivation to protect citizens of Oregon, Illinois and,
for that matter, Brazil, Germany and Japan. A simple reminder of that
fact might go a long way pushing politicians to eliminate a law that
demonstrably endangers the safety of everyone in the Sunshine State.

By pledging not to visit Florida (sorry Grandma), non-Floridians can
affect change.

There are major issues at play in the Trayvon Martin case -- race and
the second amendment among them. Given the gravity of the situation,
neither truth nor reconciliation are likely to arrive anytime soon.
Still, supporting an immediate solution to an immediate and
non-ideological problem could be the first step towards a resolution
that, tragically, will never bring a young man back to life.

HuffPost

Punish Florida because Zimmerman's guilty.

Oh wait, he's not been tried yet. In fact, the investigation's not even complete.

More happy horse**** from the happy horse**** crowd.


No, dummy...punish florida for its law.

You mean punish Florida for allowing its citizens to exercise their 2nd
amendment rights.

He means, punish anyone who doesn't pay into his union fund...

Florida's no retreat law has nothing to do with the second amendment.