On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 12:13:51 -0700, jps wrote:

On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 11:58:52 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

On 3/30/12 10:46 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:22:21 -0400, X ` wrote:

...I like this, a lot.

Bull**** snipped

It's an insane law. Any clever/evil person could provoke another into
an attack and claim self-defense.

Funding for lawmakers to pass this stupidity was made available
courtesy of the NRA and Jeb Bush.

Gosh, wonder why one doesn't hear of the thousands and thousands of 'self-defense' killings that
occur in that state - or any other for that matter.

In article ,
says...

On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 12:13:51 -0700, jps wrote:

On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 11:58:52 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

On 3/30/12 10:46 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:22:21 -0400, X ` wrote:

...I like this, a lot.

Bull**** snipped

It's an insane law. Any clever/evil person could provoke another into
an attack and claim self-defense.

Funding for lawmakers to pass this stupidity was made available
courtesy of the NRA and Jeb Bush.

Gosh, wonder why one doesn't hear of the thousands and thousands of 'self-defense' killings that
occur in that state - or any other for that matter.

Where'd you get that number of thousands and thousands? Or did you just
make it up like Harry?

On 3/30/2012 3:33 PM, Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 12:13:51 -0700, wrote:

On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 11:58:52 -0400, X `
wrote:

On 3/30/12 10:46 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:22:21 -0400, X ` wrote:

...I like this, a lot.

Bull**** snipped

It's an insane law. Any clever/evil person could provoke another into
an attack and claim self-defense.

Funding for lawmakers to pass this stupidity was made available
courtesy of the NRA and Jeb Bush.

Gosh, wonder why one doesn't hear of the thousands and thousands of 'self-defense' killings that
occur in that state - or any other for that matter.

Shame of it is, some day it might be Harry's only defense. I wonder if
newsgroup postings would be allowed into evedence. Harry's goose would
be cooked.

--
http://tinyurl.com/75bq9db

In article ,
says...

On 3/30/12 10:46 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:22:21 -0400, X ` wrote:

...I like this, a lot.

Travelers Can Save The Next Trayvon Martin By Avoiding Florida

A crucial fact thus far left out of the debate surrounding the shooting
of Trayvon Martin is that Florida's Stand Your Ground law, which is
keeping George Zimmerman out of jail, affects more people from outside
the state than it does Floridians.

According to census data, 19,057,542 Americans lived in Florida in 2011,
a year in which the state claims 85.9 million tourists visited. Florida
law must, in short, not only protect the liberties of Floridians, but
also the wellbeing of tourists and tourism, the state's largest sector.
The piece of legislation allowing residents "to stand [their] ground and
meet force with force, including deadly force," which left Zimmerman
legally unencumbered to shoot an unarmed teen, has consequences for all
those visitors. The law's existence also ought to have consequences for
the state.

In 2003, the advocacy group Oceana began a boycott of Royal Caribbean
Cruises, demanding the company install wastewater purification systems
and stop leaching toxins into the seas. Royal Caribbean, a company with
a market cap over $6 billion, agreed to the changes after receiving just
90,000 pledges from cruisers who said they wouldn't book trips until the
cruise giant quite literally cleaned up its act. That same year, Royal
Caribbean took roughly 3 million people to sea, meaning a mere three
percent of its customers affected a major policy shift by threatening to
withhold their dollars.

Because tourism is such a big business, travelers are more empowered
than other sorts of consumers to make demands. (Ask a Burmese official
about it some time.)

If tourists boycott Florida -- as tourists boycotted Arizona after
controversial legislation was enacted there in 2010 -- the state will
have to choose between economic Russian roulette and putting the guns
down altogether. As long as Florida depends on tourists' money -- to the
tune of roughly 9.3 percent of G.D.P and a million jobs -- the state's
government has a motivation to protect citizens of Oregon, Illinois and,
for that matter, Brazil, Germany and Japan. A simple reminder of that
fact might go a long way pushing politicians to eliminate a law that
demonstrably endangers the safety of everyone in the Sunshine State.

By pledging not to visit Florida (sorry Grandma), non-Floridians can
affect change.

There are major issues at play in the Trayvon Martin case -- race and
the second amendment among them. Given the gravity of the situation,
neither truth nor reconciliation are likely to arrive anytime soon.
Still, supporting an immediate solution to an immediate and
non-ideological problem could be the first step towards a resolution
that, tragically, will never bring a young man back to life.

HuffPost

Punish Florida because Zimmerman's guilty.

Oh wait, he's not been tried yet. In fact, the investigation's not even complete.

More happy horse**** from the happy horse**** crowd.


No, dummy...punish florida for its law.

You mean punish Florida for allowing its citizens to exercise their 2nd
amendment rights.

On 3/31/12 9:41 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

On 3/30/12 10:46 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:22:21 -0400, X ` wrote:

...I like this, a lot.

Travelers Can Save The Next Trayvon Martin By Avoiding Florida

A crucial fact thus far left out of the debate surrounding the shooting
of Trayvon Martin is that Florida's Stand Your Ground law, which is
keeping George Zimmerman out of jail, affects more people from outside
the state than it does Floridians.

According to census data, 19,057,542 Americans lived in Florida in 2011,
a year in which the state claims 85.9 million tourists visited. Florida
law must, in short, not only protect the liberties of Floridians, but
also the wellbeing of tourists and tourism, the state's largest sector.
The piece of legislation allowing residents "to stand [their] ground and
meet force with force, including deadly force," which left Zimmerman
legally unencumbered to shoot an unarmed teen, has consequences for all
those visitors. The law's existence also ought to have consequences for
the state.

In 2003, the advocacy group Oceana began a boycott of Royal Caribbean
Cruises, demanding the company install wastewater purification systems
and stop leaching toxins into the seas. Royal Caribbean, a company with
a market cap over $6 billion, agreed to the changes after receiving just
90,000 pledges from cruisers who said they wouldn't book trips until the
cruise giant quite literally cleaned up its act. That same year, Royal
Caribbean took roughly 3 million people to sea, meaning a mere three
percent of its customers affected a major policy shift by threatening to
withhold their dollars.

Because tourism is such a big business, travelers are more empowered
than other sorts of consumers to make demands. (Ask a Burmese official
about it some time.)

If tourists boycott Florida -- as tourists boycotted Arizona after
controversial legislation was enacted there in 2010 -- the state will
have to choose between economic Russian roulette and putting the guns
down altogether. As long as Florida depends on tourists' money -- to the
tune of roughly 9.3 percent of G.D.P and a million jobs -- the state's
government has a motivation to protect citizens of Oregon, Illinois and,
for that matter, Brazil, Germany and Japan. A simple reminder of that
fact might go a long way pushing politicians to eliminate a law that
demonstrably endangers the safety of everyone in the Sunshine State.

By pledging not to visit Florida (sorry Grandma), non-Floridians can
affect change.

There are major issues at play in the Trayvon Martin case -- race and
the second amendment among them. Given the gravity of the situation,
neither truth nor reconciliation are likely to arrive anytime soon.
Still, supporting an immediate solution to an immediate and
non-ideological problem could be the first step towards a resolution
that, tragically, will never bring a young man back to life.

HuffPost

Punish Florida because Zimmerman's guilty.

Oh wait, he's not been tried yet. In fact, the investigation's not even complete.

More happy horse**** from the happy horse**** crowd.


No, dummy...punish florida for its law.

You mean punish Florida for allowing its citizens to exercise their 2nd
amendment rights.


The 2nd Amendment and Florida's "stand your ground" law aren't the same
thing. The 2nd Amendment does not say you can shoot kids walking through
your neighborhood. The "stand your ground" law does, especially when
there are no real witnesses around.

On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 09:49:07 -0400, X ` Man wrote:

On 3/31/12 9:41 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

On 3/30/12 10:46 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:22:21 -0400, X ` wrote:

...I like this, a lot.

Travelers Can Save The Next Trayvon Martin By Avoiding Florida

A crucial fact thus far left out of the debate surrounding the shooting
of Trayvon Martin is that Florida's Stand Your Ground law, which is
keeping George Zimmerman out of jail, affects more people from outside
the state than it does Floridians.

According to census data, 19,057,542 Americans lived in Florida in 2011,
a year in which the state claims 85.9 million tourists visited. Florida
law must, in short, not only protect the liberties of Floridians, but
also the wellbeing of tourists and tourism, the state's largest sector.
The piece of legislation allowing residents "to stand [their] ground and
meet force with force, including deadly force," which left Zimmerman
legally unencumbered to shoot an unarmed teen, has consequences for all
those visitors. The law's existence also ought to have consequences for
the state.

In 2003, the advocacy group Oceana began a boycott of Royal Caribbean
Cruises, demanding the company install wastewater purification systems
and stop leaching toxins into the seas. Royal Caribbean, a company with
a market cap over $6 billion, agreed to the changes after receiving just
90,000 pledges from cruisers who said they wouldn't book trips until the
cruise giant quite literally cleaned up its act. That same year, Royal
Caribbean took roughly 3 million people to sea, meaning a mere three
percent of its customers affected a major policy shift by threatening to
withhold their dollars.

Because tourism is such a big business, travelers are more empowered
than other sorts of consumers to make demands. (Ask a Burmese official
about it some time.)

If tourists boycott Florida -- as tourists boycotted Arizona after
controversial legislation was enacted there in 2010 -- the state will
have to choose between economic Russian roulette and putting the guns
down altogether. As long as Florida depends on tourists' money -- to the
tune of roughly 9.3 percent of G.D.P and a million jobs -- the state's
government has a motivation to protect citizens of Oregon, Illinois and,
for that matter, Brazil, Germany and Japan. A simple reminder of that
fact might go a long way pushing politicians to eliminate a law that
demonstrably endangers the safety of everyone in the Sunshine State.

By pledging not to visit Florida (sorry Grandma), non-Floridians can
affect change.

There are major issues at play in the Trayvon Martin case -- race and
the second amendment among them. Given the gravity of the situation,
neither truth nor reconciliation are likely to arrive anytime soon.
Still, supporting an immediate solution to an immediate and
non-ideological problem could be the first step towards a resolution
that, tragically, will never bring a young man back to life.

HuffPost

Punish Florida because Zimmerman's guilty.

Oh wait, he's not been tried yet. In fact, the investigation's not even complete.

More happy horse**** from the happy horse**** crowd.


No, dummy...punish florida for its law.

You mean punish Florida for allowing its citizens to exercise their 2nd
amendment rights.


The 2nd Amendment and Florida's "stand your ground" law aren't the same
thing. The 2nd Amendment does not say you can shoot kids walking through
your neighborhood. The "stand your ground" law does, especially when
there are no real witnesses around.


Where does it say that, Fred?

In article , dump-on-
says...

On 3/31/12 9:41 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

On 3/30/12 10:46 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:22:21 -0400, X ` wrote:

...I like this, a lot.

Travelers Can Save The Next Trayvon Martin By Avoiding Florida

A crucial fact thus far left out of the debate surrounding the shooting
of Trayvon Martin is that Florida's Stand Your Ground law, which is
keeping George Zimmerman out of jail, affects more people from outside
the state than it does Floridians.

According to census data, 19,057,542 Americans lived in Florida in 2011,
a year in which the state claims 85.9 million tourists visited. Florida
law must, in short, not only protect the liberties of Floridians, but
also the wellbeing of tourists and tourism, the state's largest sector.
The piece of legislation allowing residents "to stand [their] ground and
meet force with force, including deadly force," which left Zimmerman
legally unencumbered to shoot an unarmed teen, has consequences for all
those visitors. The law's existence also ought to have consequences for
the state.

In 2003, the advocacy group Oceana began a boycott of Royal Caribbean
Cruises, demanding the company install wastewater purification systems
and stop leaching toxins into the seas. Royal Caribbean, a company with
a market cap over $6 billion, agreed to the changes after receiving just
90,000 pledges from cruisers who said they wouldn't book trips until the
cruise giant quite literally cleaned up its act. That same year, Royal
Caribbean took roughly 3 million people to sea, meaning a mere three
percent of its customers affected a major policy shift by threatening to
withhold their dollars.

Because tourism is such a big business, travelers are more empowered
than other sorts of consumers to make demands. (Ask a Burmese official
about it some time.)

If tourists boycott Florida -- as tourists boycotted Arizona after
controversial legislation was enacted there in 2010 -- the state will
have to choose between economic Russian roulette and putting the guns
down altogether. As long as Florida depends on tourists' money -- to the
tune of roughly 9.3 percent of G.D.P and a million jobs -- the state's
government has a motivation to protect citizens of Oregon, Illinois and,
for that matter, Brazil, Germany and Japan. A simple reminder of that
fact might go a long way pushing politicians to eliminate a law that
demonstrably endangers the safety of everyone in the Sunshine State.

By pledging not to visit Florida (sorry Grandma), non-Floridians can
affect change.

There are major issues at play in the Trayvon Martin case -- race and
the second amendment among them. Given the gravity of the situation,
neither truth nor reconciliation are likely to arrive anytime soon.
Still, supporting an immediate solution to an immediate and
non-ideological problem could be the first step towards a resolution
that, tragically, will never bring a young man back to life.

HuffPost

Punish Florida because Zimmerman's guilty.

Oh wait, he's not been tried yet. In fact, the investigation's not even complete.

More happy horse**** from the happy horse**** crowd.


No, dummy...punish florida for its law.

You mean punish Florida for allowing its citizens to exercise their 2nd
amendment rights.


The 2nd Amendment and Florida's "stand your ground" law aren't the same
thing. The 2nd Amendment does not say you can shoot kids walking through
your neighborhood. The "stand your ground" law does, especially when
there are no real witnesses around.

The right to keep and bear arms has implicit within it the abiltiy to
defend ones self from aggressors. Otherwise, why would there be a 2nd
amendment?

On 3/31/2012 9:41 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

On 3/30/12 10:46 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:22:21 -0400, X ` wrote:

...I like this, a lot.

Travelers Can Save The Next Trayvon Martin By Avoiding Florida

A crucial fact thus far left out of the debate surrounding the shooting
of Trayvon Martin is that Florida's Stand Your Ground law, which is
keeping George Zimmerman out of jail, affects more people from outside
the state than it does Floridians.

According to census data, 19,057,542 Americans lived in Florida in 2011,
a year in which the state claims 85.9 million tourists visited. Florida
law must, in short, not only protect the liberties of Floridians, but
also the wellbeing of tourists and tourism, the state's largest sector.
The piece of legislation allowing residents "to stand [their] ground and
meet force with force, including deadly force," which left Zimmerman
legally unencumbered to shoot an unarmed teen, has consequences for all
those visitors. The law's existence also ought to have consequences for
the state.

In 2003, the advocacy group Oceana began a boycott of Royal Caribbean
Cruises, demanding the company install wastewater purification systems
and stop leaching toxins into the seas. Royal Caribbean, a company with
a market cap over $6 billion, agreed to the changes after receiving just
90,000 pledges from cruisers who said they wouldn't book trips until the
cruise giant quite literally cleaned up its act. That same year, Royal
Caribbean took roughly 3 million people to sea, meaning a mere three
percent of its customers affected a major policy shift by threatening to
withhold their dollars.

Because tourism is such a big business, travelers are more empowered
than other sorts of consumers to make demands. (Ask a Burmese official
about it some time.)

If tourists boycott Florida -- as tourists boycotted Arizona after
controversial legislation was enacted there in 2010 -- the state will
have to choose between economic Russian roulette and putting the guns
down altogether. As long as Florida depends on tourists' money -- to the
tune of roughly 9.3 percent of G.D.P and a million jobs -- the state's
government has a motivation to protect citizens of Oregon, Illinois and,
for that matter, Brazil, Germany and Japan. A simple reminder of that
fact might go a long way pushing politicians to eliminate a law that
demonstrably endangers the safety of everyone in the Sunshine State.

By pledging not to visit Florida (sorry Grandma), non-Floridians can
affect change.

There are major issues at play in the Trayvon Martin case -- race and
the second amendment among them. Given the gravity of the situation,
neither truth nor reconciliation are likely to arrive anytime soon.
Still, supporting an immediate solution to an immediate and
non-ideological problem could be the first step towards a resolution
that, tragically, will never bring a young man back to life.

HuffPost

Punish Florida because Zimmerman's guilty.

Oh wait, he's not been tried yet. In fact, the investigation's not even complete.

More happy horse**** from the happy horse**** crowd.


No, dummy...punish florida for its law.

You mean punish Florida for allowing its citizens to exercise their 2nd
amendment rights.

He means, punish anyone who doesn't pay into his union fund...

In article , says...

On 3/31/2012 9:41 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

On 3/30/12 10:46 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:22:21 -0400, X ` wrote:

...I like this, a lot.

Travelers Can Save The Next Trayvon Martin By Avoiding Florida

A crucial fact thus far left out of the debate surrounding the shooting
of Trayvon Martin is that Florida's Stand Your Ground law, which is
keeping George Zimmerman out of jail, affects more people from outside
the state than it does Floridians.

According to census data, 19,057,542 Americans lived in Florida in 2011,
a year in which the state claims 85.9 million tourists visited. Florida
law must, in short, not only protect the liberties of Floridians, but
also the wellbeing of tourists and tourism, the state's largest sector.
The piece of legislation allowing residents "to stand [their] ground and
meet force with force, including deadly force," which left Zimmerman
legally unencumbered to shoot an unarmed teen, has consequences for all
those visitors. The law's existence also ought to have consequences for
the state.

In 2003, the advocacy group Oceana began a boycott of Royal Caribbean
Cruises, demanding the company install wastewater purification systems
and stop leaching toxins into the seas. Royal Caribbean, a company with
a market cap over $6 billion, agreed to the changes after receiving just
90,000 pledges from cruisers who said they wouldn't book trips until the
cruise giant quite literally cleaned up its act. That same year, Royal
Caribbean took roughly 3 million people to sea, meaning a mere three
percent of its customers affected a major policy shift by threatening to
withhold their dollars.

Because tourism is such a big business, travelers are more empowered
than other sorts of consumers to make demands. (Ask a Burmese official
about it some time.)

If tourists boycott Florida -- as tourists boycotted Arizona after
controversial legislation was enacted there in 2010 -- the state will
have to choose between economic Russian roulette and putting the guns
down altogether. As long as Florida depends on tourists' money -- to the
tune of roughly 9.3 percent of G.D.P and a million jobs -- the state's
government has a motivation to protect citizens of Oregon, Illinois and,
for that matter, Brazil, Germany and Japan. A simple reminder of that
fact might go a long way pushing politicians to eliminate a law that
demonstrably endangers the safety of everyone in the Sunshine State.

By pledging not to visit Florida (sorry Grandma), non-Floridians can
affect change.

There are major issues at play in the Trayvon Martin case -- race and
the second amendment among them. Given the gravity of the situation,
neither truth nor reconciliation are likely to arrive anytime soon.
Still, supporting an immediate solution to an immediate and
non-ideological problem could be the first step towards a resolution
that, tragically, will never bring a young man back to life.

HuffPost

Punish Florida because Zimmerman's guilty.

Oh wait, he's not been tried yet. In fact, the investigation's not even complete.

More happy horse**** from the happy horse**** crowd.


No, dummy...punish florida for its law.

You mean punish Florida for allowing its citizens to exercise their 2nd
amendment rights.

He means, punish anyone who doesn't pay into his union fund...

Florida's no retreat law has nothing to do with the second amendment.

On 3/30/12 9:50 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 11:58:52 -0400, X `
wrote:

On 3/30/12 10:46 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:22:21 -0400, X ` wrote:

...I like this, a lot.

Travelers Can Save The Next Trayvon Martin By Avoiding Florida

A crucial fact thus far left out of the debate surrounding the shooting
of Trayvon Martin is that Florida's Stand Your Ground law, which is
keeping George Zimmerman out of jail, affects more people from outside
the state than it does Floridians.

According to census data, 19,057,542 Americans lived in Florida in 2011,
a year in which the state claims 85.9 million tourists visited. Florida
law must, in short, not only protect the liberties of Floridians, but
also the wellbeing of tourists and tourism, the state's largest sector.
The piece of legislation allowing residents "to stand [their] ground and
meet force with force, including deadly force," which left Zimmerman
legally unencumbered to shoot an unarmed teen, has consequences for all
those visitors. The law's existence also ought to have consequences for
the state.

In 2003, the advocacy group Oceana began a boycott of Royal Caribbean
Cruises, demanding the company install wastewater purification systems
and stop leaching toxins into the seas. Royal Caribbean, a company with
a market cap over $6 billion, agreed to the changes after receiving just
90,000 pledges from cruisers who said they wouldn't book trips until the
cruise giant quite literally cleaned up its act. That same year, Royal
Caribbean took roughly 3 million people to sea, meaning a mere three
percent of its customers affected a major policy shift by threatening to
withhold their dollars.

Because tourism is such a big business, travelers are more empowered
than other sorts of consumers to make demands. (Ask a Burmese official
about it some time.)

If tourists boycott Florida -- as tourists boycotted Arizona after
controversial legislation was enacted there in 2010 -- the state will
have to choose between economic Russian roulette and putting the guns
down altogether. As long as Florida depends on tourists' money -- to the
tune of roughly 9.3 percent of G.D.P and a million jobs -- the state's
government has a motivation to protect citizens of Oregon, Illinois and,
for that matter, Brazil, Germany and Japan. A simple reminder of that
fact might go a long way pushing politicians to eliminate a law that
demonstrably endangers the safety of everyone in the Sunshine State.

By pledging not to visit Florida (sorry Grandma), non-Floridians can
affect change.

There are major issues at play in the Trayvon Martin case -- race and
the second amendment among them. Given the gravity of the situation,
neither truth nor reconciliation are likely to arrive anytime soon.
Still, supporting an immediate solution to an immediate and
non-ideological problem could be the first step towards a resolution
that, tragically, will never bring a young man back to life.

HuffPost

Punish Florida because Zimmerman's guilty.

Oh wait, he's not been tried yet. In fact, the investigation's not even complete.

More happy horse**** from the happy horse**** crowd.


No, dummy...punish florida for its law.

What law? Tell me how the Hold-Your-Ground Law even remotely applies
in this case. JPS can't. Can you?


Early on, the local prosecutors told the police to not arrest the
shooter because they believed he had "stood his ground." The law
emboldens imbeciles like Zimmerman and makes them think they can get
away with homicide.

It'll be interesting to see what, if any, state charges are brought
against Zimmerman, considing that the state's attorney assigned to the
case is a lackey of the right-wing extremist governor in Florida who
assuredly does not want to run afoul of "the gun interests."