In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 14:03:59 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:

How does a
morbidly obese person affect you second hand like smokers do?

Higher health care costs?
Ever been stuck in the center seat on an airliner between two fat
****ers ? I would rather they were skinny people, smoking.

I've already been over that. With smokers, you not only get the benefit
of having to pay for their continued healthcare, you also get the
benefit of a high risk of cancer, heart disease, stroke, emphysema, etc.
by being forced to inhale their smoke. No other disease or addiction
does that.


-----------------------------------------------
Smokers have been shown to have less of an overall societal cost than non
smokers in some studies. They die earlier with less end of live cost, and
less social security payout. Plus the enormous amount of taxes they have
paid to smoke. Lots more than the health insurance for smokers only would
have cost. Plus look how much money they put in circulation. One of the
reasons Altria has been one of the best investments since 1970.

Then you're not taking into account the toll from second hand smoke.

Where is the proof that people die from second hand smoke.

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 14:03:59 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:

How does a
morbidly obese person affect you second hand like smokers do?

Higher health care costs?
Ever been stuck in the center seat on an airliner between two fat
****ers ? I would rather they were skinny people, smoking.

I've already been over that. With smokers, you not only get the benefit
of having to pay for their continued healthcare, you also get the
benefit of a high risk of cancer, heart disease, stroke, emphysema, etc.
by being forced to inhale their smoke. No other disease or addiction
does that.


-----------------------------------------------
Smokers have been shown to have less of an overall societal cost than non
smokers in some studies. They die earlier with less end of live cost, and
less social security payout. Plus the enormous amount of taxes they have
paid to smoke. Lots more than the health insurance for smokers only would
have cost. Plus look how much money they put in circulation. One of the
reasons Altria has been one of the best investments since 1970.

Then you're not taking into account the toll from second hand smoke.

Where is the proof that people die from second hand smoke.

http://tinyurl.com/6t3p65o

The Effects of Secondhand Smoke on Adults

If you live or work with a smoker, be aware that their habit is having
an impact on your health:

The CDC reports that breathing secondhand smoke has an instant effect on
a person's cardiovascular system. Even a slight exposure can damage the
blood vessels and cause blood platelets to become stickier. Over time,
these changes can result in heart disease and heart attacks.

People regularly exposed to secondhand smoke have a 20 to 30% greater
chance of developing lung cancer than those who are not exposed as
often.

Cigarette smoke contains around 70 cancer-causing chemicals including
formaldehyde, benzene, vinyl chloride, arsenic, ammonia, and hydrogen
cyanide. Even brief exposure can damage your body cells leaving them
prone to cancerous changes.

The Effects of Secondhand Smoke on Children

The effects of secondhand smoke can be long-lasting for our littlest
ones:

According to the Office of the Surgeon General, babies living in a home
where a parent smokes are at a higher risk of sudden infant death
syndrome. It is believed that the chemicals in the smoke interfere with
the way the brain regulates breathing.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) reports that
children of all ages who are constantly exposed to secondhand smoke are
more likely to suffer from asthma, respiratory problems such as
pneumonia and bronchitis, and middle ear infections.

Children who grow up around smokers are likely to have smaller lungs and
decreased lung function compared to those who come from non-smoking
homes


http://www.cancer.org/Cancer/CancerC...condhand-smoke

http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_stat...ondhand_smoke/
health_effects/

Exposure to secondhand smoke has immediate adverse effects on the
cardiovascular system and can cause coronary heart disease.1,3
?Secondhand smoke causes an estimated 46,000 premature deaths from heart
disease each year in the United States among nonsmokers.4
?Nonsmokers who are exposed to secondhand smoke at home or at work
increase their risk of developing heart disease by 25?30%.


Light 'em up, everybody! Harm your spouse, harm your children, harm me
and my children because you think you enjoy a stinking filthy habit.
I've been there, and am damned glad I had the stones to quit. If not for
me, for my family.

In article ,
says...

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 10:43:01 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...

Then you're not taking into account the toll from second hand smoke.

Where is the proof that people die from second hand smoke.

http://tinyurl.com/6t3p65o

The Effects of Secondhand Smoke on Adults

There is a lot of conjecture out there but they never put any real
numbers on it. Virtually every other pollutant has OSHA established
threshold limit values but cigarette smoke is seen to have a level of
zero. Are they really trying to say cigarette smoke is more dangerous
than all of the other chemicals that OSHA regulates?
The issue is simply that non smokers or "quit" smokers are offended if
they even SEE someone smoking. It is just about the only class of
people who can be discriminated against with impunity.

If you are simply using the health care cost issue, obesity is a far
bigger problem..

Someone else being obese doesn't harm YOUR health. Being around a smoker
does. I'm not offended by someone smoking, I just don't want mine or my
children's health compromised.


http://www.epa.gov/smokefree/healtheffects.html

http://www.cancer.org/Cancer/CancerC...condhand-smoke

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 14:25:08 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:

I'm not offended by someone smoking

===

I am.

As a reformed 3 pack a day guy, I find the smell highly offensive.

One of my former colleagues lost his wife to lung cancer when she was
in her 50s, never having smoked a day in her life. She had spent a
lot of time in offices with a lot of smokers around her however.

In article ,
says...

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 14:25:08 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:

I'm not offended by someone smoking

===

I am.

As a reformed 3 pack a day guy, I find the smell highly offensive.

One of my former colleagues lost his wife to lung cancer when she was
in her 50s, never having smoked a day in her life. She had spent a
lot of time in offices with a lot of smokers around her however.

My father in-law died of lung cancer. It was from hexavalent(sp?)
chromium. Inhaling one molecule can cause lung cancer.

My mother developed Non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. There were 4 people on the
street I grew up on who developed it and 3 died from it. My mother has
survived 15 years. Was it exposure to agent orange? Was it exposure to
other chemical weapons from living on military bases all of her life or
was it some other environmental cause. Why did the other three people on
the street develop the same cancer within a 15 year span of time?

In article ,
says...

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 14:25:08 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:

I'm not offended by someone smoking

===

I am.

As a reformed 3 pack a day guy, I find the smell highly offensive.

One of my former colleagues lost his wife to lung cancer when she was
in her 50s, never having smoked a day in her life. She had spent a
lot of time in offices with a lot of smokers around her however.

While I can't stand the nasty smell anymore, I don't care who smokes, as
long as they keep it away from me and my loved ones. THAT in my eyes is
the problem. Go ahead and kill yourself with smoke, that's fine. But
when you are affecting others with second hand smoke, that's not fine.
And then to have the attitude that if you want to harm innocent people
with second hand smoke you should have that choice is awful.

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 10:43:01 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...

Then you're not taking into account the toll from second hand smoke.

Where is the proof that people die from second hand smoke.

http://tinyurl.com/6t3p65o

The Effects of Secondhand Smoke on Adults

There is a lot of conjecture out there but they never put any real
numbers on it. Virtually every other pollutant has OSHA established
threshold limit values but cigarette smoke is seen to have a level of
zero. Are they really trying to say cigarette smoke is more dangerous
than all of the other chemicals that OSHA regulates?
The issue is simply that non smokers or "quit" smokers are offended if
they even SEE someone smoking. It is just about the only class of
people who can be discriminated against with impunity.

If you are simply using the health care cost issue, obesity is a far
bigger problem..

Someone else being obese doesn't harm YOUR health. Being around a smoker
does. I'm not offended by someone smoking, I just don't want mine or my
children's health compromised.


http://www.epa.gov/smokefree/healtheffects.html

http://www.cancer.org/Cancer/CancerC...condhand-smoke

Do you have independent peer reviewed studies that prove that 2nd hand
smoke from cigarettes kills people?

On 2/24/2012 11:40 PM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

In ,
says...

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 10:43:01 -0500, wrote:

In ,
says...

Then you're not taking into account the toll from second hand smoke.

Where is the proof that people die from second hand smoke.

http://tinyurl.com/6t3p65o

The Effects of Secondhand Smoke on Adults

There is a lot of conjecture out there but they never put any real
numbers on it. Virtually every other pollutant has OSHA established
threshold limit values but cigarette smoke is seen to have a level of
zero. Are they really trying to say cigarette smoke is more dangerous
than all of the other chemicals that OSHA regulates?
The issue is simply that non smokers or "quit" smokers are offended if
they even SEE someone smoking. It is just about the only class of
people who can be discriminated against with impunity.

If you are simply using the health care cost issue, obesity is a far
bigger problem..

Someone else being obese doesn't harm YOUR health. Being around a smoker
does. I'm not offended by someone smoking, I just don't want mine or my
children's health compromised.


http://www.epa.gov/smokefree/healtheffects.html

http://www.cancer.org/Cancer/CancerC...condhand-smoke

Do you have independent peer reviewed studies that prove that 2nd hand
smoke from cigarettes kills people?



.... and who says obese people don't effect others. I bet there is more
generation to generation obesity passed on, then generation to
generation cigarette smokers. And quite frankly, I have been in cars
with morbidly obese people who really couldn't maneuver enough in the
drivers area (and this was a Lincoln Towncar) to be safe on the road...
Either way, the phrase above again, is based on feelings, not facts...

In article , says...

On 2/24/2012 11:40 PM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

In ,
says...

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 10:43:01 -0500, wrote:

In ,
says...

Then you're not taking into account the toll from second hand smoke.

Where is the proof that people die from second hand smoke.

http://tinyurl.com/6t3p65o

The Effects of Secondhand Smoke on Adults

There is a lot of conjecture out there but they never put any real
numbers on it. Virtually every other pollutant has OSHA established
threshold limit values but cigarette smoke is seen to have a level of
zero. Are they really trying to say cigarette smoke is more dangerous
than all of the other chemicals that OSHA regulates?
The issue is simply that non smokers or "quit" smokers are offended if
they even SEE someone smoking. It is just about the only class of
people who can be discriminated against with impunity.

If you are simply using the health care cost issue, obesity is a far
bigger problem..

Someone else being obese doesn't harm YOUR health. Being around a smoker
does. I'm not offended by someone smoking, I just don't want mine or my
children's health compromised.


http://www.epa.gov/smokefree/healtheffects.html

http://www.cancer.org/Cancer/CancerC...condhand-smoke

Do you have independent peer reviewed studies that prove that 2nd hand
smoke from cigarettes kills people?



... and who says obese people don't effect others. I bet there is more
generation to generation obesity passed on, then generation to
generation cigarette smokers. And quite frankly, I have been in cars
with morbidly obese people who really couldn't maneuver enough in the
drivers area (and this was a Lincoln Towncar) to be safe on the road...
Either way, the phrase above again, is based on feelings, not facts...

Yes, we get it, killing yourself and your loved ones, let alone other
innocent people, slowly by smoking is cool, and a great thing to do.

In article , says...

On 2/24/2012 11:40 PM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

In ,
says...

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 10:43:01 -0500, wrote:

In ,
says...

Then you're not taking into account the toll from second hand smoke.

Where is the proof that people die from second hand smoke.

http://tinyurl.com/6t3p65o

The Effects of Secondhand Smoke on Adults

There is a lot of conjecture out there but they never put any real
numbers on it. Virtually every other pollutant has OSHA established
threshold limit values but cigarette smoke is seen to have a level of
zero. Are they really trying to say cigarette smoke is more dangerous
than all of the other chemicals that OSHA regulates?
The issue is simply that non smokers or "quit" smokers are offended if
they even SEE someone smoking. It is just about the only class of
people who can be discriminated against with impunity.

If you are simply using the health care cost issue, obesity is a far
bigger problem..

Someone else being obese doesn't harm YOUR health. Being around a smoker
does. I'm not offended by someone smoking, I just don't want mine or my
children's health compromised.


http://www.epa.gov/smokefree/healtheffects.html

http://www.cancer.org/Cancer/CancerC...condhand-smoke

Do you have independent peer reviewed studies that prove that 2nd hand
smoke from cigarettes kills people?



... and who says obese people don't effect others. I bet there is more
generation to generation obesity passed on, then generation to
generation cigarette smokers. And quite frankly, I have been in cars
with morbidly obese people who really couldn't maneuver enough in the
drivers area (and this was a Lincoln Towncar) to be safe on the road...
Either way, the phrase above again, is based on feelings, not facts...

Genetics has a lot to do with how people look. How big their head is,
how big their ass is, how big their belly is, what length their torso
is, how big their nose is, how big their ears are.

I don't think enough is known about the genetics of obesity or
addiction.