In article ,
says...

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 14:25:08 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:

I'm not offended by someone smoking

===

I am.

As a reformed 3 pack a day guy, I find the smell highly offensive.

One of my former colleagues lost his wife to lung cancer when she was
in her 50s, never having smoked a day in her life. She had spent a
lot of time in offices with a lot of smokers around her however.

While I can't stand the nasty smell anymore, I don't care who smokes, as
long as they keep it away from me and my loved ones. THAT in my eyes is
the problem. Go ahead and kill yourself with smoke, that's fine. But
when you are affecting others with second hand smoke, that's not fine.
And then to have the attitude that if you want to harm innocent people
with second hand smoke you should have that choice is awful.

In article ,
says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article , says...

On 2/23/2012 11:18 PM, Califbill wrote:
"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 14:03:59 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:

How does a
morbidly obese person affect you second hand like smokers do?

Higher health care costs?
Ever been stuck in the center seat on an airliner between two fat
****ers ? I would rather they were skinny people, smoking.

I've already been over that. With smokers, you not only get the benefit
of having to pay for their continued healthcare, you also get the
benefit of a high risk of cancer, heart disease, stroke, emphysema,
etc.
by being forced to inhale their smoke. No other disease or addiction
does that.


-----------------------------------------------
Smokers have been shown to have less of an overall societal cost than
non
smokers in some studies. They die earlier with less end of live cost,
and
less social security payout. Plus the enormous amount of taxes they
have
paid to smoke. Lots more than the health insurance for smokers only
would
have cost. Plus look how much money they put in circulation. One of the
reasons Altria has been one of the best investments since 1970.

Then you're not taking into account the toll from second hand smoke.


-------------------------------------------

No studies have really proved that much damage from 2nd hand smoke. but
the $2-3+ tax on each pack of cigarettes will pay for any extra societal
costs. And I think NY has about an $8 a pack tax. NYC adds to that some
more tax. Might as well agree to a carbon tax, extra boat taxes Maybe
$2k a year for a powered recreational boat. Boat not really needed and
some of those people who think that kayaks and man powered vessels
should be the only thing on waterways. Where you going to stop excess
taxing? NY hid their overspending by adding a couple bucks tax to each
pack. Why should just one segment pay for the rest overspending? Now
that you agree to a tax for consuming an unhealthy substance, please
cough up 200% tax on each McD burger and 500% on fries. Probably McD and
Burger King and Jack kill more than all the tobacco companies combined.
Obesity is an epidemic!


You better believe it. Something like 34% of the nation is obese and
almost literally each and every one of them WILL have health problems
related to it before they die. Fat people seem to get a pass even though
they are probably a lot more of a drain on society than smokers...

Smoke away! Get your kids hooked on them too! Someone else's obesity
doesn't harm your health. Someone else's smoke does. It's that simple.


---------------------------------------
Sure that obesity harms my health. My financial health. And how many
people are harmed by 2nd hand smoke? Most public smoking is prohibited, so
mostly smokers hurt their families, and maybe both parents smoke. Not good
for the kid, but look how many obese parents are feeding their kids the same
crab that makes the parents obese. Probably more than smokers hurting their
offspring. Admitted smoking is a nasty habit, but so are other habits. But
we are supposed to be the land of the free. Free to screw yourself up
should be one of the main freedoms.

Once again. Smoking harms others, not just the smoker. THAT is the crime
here. And for someone to say that they have a right to harm others is
stupid. I could care less if somebody wants to kill themselves slowly
with smoke. The trouble is when they are harming others. And they do.

In article , says...

On 2/24/2012 5:10 PM, Califbill wrote:
"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article , says...

On 2/23/2012 11:18 PM, Califbill wrote:
"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 14:03:59 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:

How does a
morbidly obese person affect you second hand like smokers do?

Higher health care costs?
Ever been stuck in the center seat on an airliner between two fat
****ers ? I would rather they were skinny people, smoking.

I've already been over that. With smokers, you not only get the
benefit
of having to pay for their continued healthcare, you also get the
benefit of a high risk of cancer, heart disease, stroke, emphysema,
etc.
by being forced to inhale their smoke. No other disease or addiction
does that.


-----------------------------------------------
Smokers have been shown to have less of an overall societal cost
than non
smokers in some studies. They die earlier with less end of live
cost, and
less social security payout. Plus the enormous amount of taxes they
have
paid to smoke. Lots more than the health insurance for smokers only
would
have cost. Plus look how much money they put in circulation. One of
the
reasons Altria has been one of the best investments since 1970.

Then you're not taking into account the toll from second hand smoke.


-------------------------------------------

No studies have really proved that much damage from 2nd hand smoke. but
the $2-3+ tax on each pack of cigarettes will pay for any extra
societal
costs. And I think NY has about an $8 a pack tax. NYC adds to that some
more tax. Might as well agree to a carbon tax, extra boat taxes Maybe
$2k a year for a powered recreational boat. Boat not really needed and
some of those people who think that kayaks and man powered vessels
should be the only thing on waterways. Where you going to stop excess
taxing? NY hid their overspending by adding a couple bucks tax to each
pack. Why should just one segment pay for the rest overspending? Now
that you agree to a tax for consuming an unhealthy substance, please
cough up 200% tax on each McD burger and 500% on fries. Probably McD
and
Burger King and Jack kill more than all the tobacco companies combined.
Obesity is an epidemic!


You better believe it. Something like 34% of the nation is obese and
almost literally each and every one of them WILL have health problems
related to it before they die. Fat people seem to get a pass even though
they are probably a lot more of a drain on society than smokers...

Smoke away! Get your kids hooked on them too! Someone else's obesity
doesn't harm your health. Someone else's smoke does. It's that simple.


---------------------------------------
Sure that obesity harms my health. My financial health. And how many
people are harmed by 2nd hand smoke? Most public smoking is prohibited,
so mostly smokers hurt their families, and maybe both parents smoke. Not
good for the kid, but look how many obese parents are feeding their kids
the same crab that makes the parents obese. Probably more than smokers
hurting their offspring. Admitted smoking is a nasty habit, but so are
other habits. But we are supposed to be the land of the free. Free to
screw yourself up should be one of the main freedoms.


With a little effort you can minimize the effects of smoking from your
family. It's not perfect, but the first thing we did when we moved into
this house was remove one window in the Office and replace it with a
built in vent fan. My wife only smokes(ed) in the office and the
negative pressure even kept the smell from my dad's mormon (non smokers)
friends in the very next room over, separated by a door... Our house
never smelled like smoke. We had a similar setup upstairs in the office
in Essex. BTW, neither I nor any of our three children smoke cigarettes,
and none of them are obese either.. I am a few pounds heavier than I
should be.

Well, you should get your kids to smoking, it's such a great habit!

In article , says...

On 2/24/2012 11:40 PM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

In ,
says...

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 10:43:01 -0500, wrote:

In ,
says...

Then you're not taking into account the toll from second hand smoke.

Where is the proof that people die from second hand smoke.

http://tinyurl.com/6t3p65o

The Effects of Secondhand Smoke on Adults

There is a lot of conjecture out there but they never put any real
numbers on it. Virtually every other pollutant has OSHA established
threshold limit values but cigarette smoke is seen to have a level of
zero. Are they really trying to say cigarette smoke is more dangerous
than all of the other chemicals that OSHA regulates?
The issue is simply that non smokers or "quit" smokers are offended if
they even SEE someone smoking. It is just about the only class of
people who can be discriminated against with impunity.

If you are simply using the health care cost issue, obesity is a far
bigger problem..

Someone else being obese doesn't harm YOUR health. Being around a smoker
does. I'm not offended by someone smoking, I just don't want mine or my
children's health compromised.


http://www.epa.gov/smokefree/healtheffects.html

http://www.cancer.org/Cancer/CancerC...condhand-smoke

Do you have independent peer reviewed studies that prove that 2nd hand
smoke from cigarettes kills people?



... and who says obese people don't effect others. I bet there is more
generation to generation obesity passed on, then generation to
generation cigarette smokers. And quite frankly, I have been in cars
with morbidly obese people who really couldn't maneuver enough in the
drivers area (and this was a Lincoln Towncar) to be safe on the road...
Either way, the phrase above again, is based on feelings, not facts...

Yes, we get it, killing yourself and your loved ones, let alone other
innocent people, slowly by smoking is cool, and a great thing to do.

In article , says...

On 2/25/2012 12:32 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 14:25:08 -0500, wrote:

In ,
says...

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 10:43:01 -0500, wrote:

In ,
says...

Then you're not taking into account the toll from second hand smoke.

Where is the proof that people die from second hand smoke.

http://tinyurl.com/6t3p65o

The Effects of Secondhand Smoke on Adults

There is a lot of conjecture out there but they never put any real
numbers on it. Virtually every other pollutant has OSHA established
threshold limit values but cigarette smoke is seen to have a level of
zero. Are they really trying to say cigarette smoke is more dangerous
than all of the other chemicals that OSHA regulates?
The issue is simply that non smokers or "quit" smokers are offended if
they even SEE someone smoking. It is just about the only class of
people who can be discriminated against with impunity.

If you are simply using the health care cost issue, obesity is a far
bigger problem..

Someone else being obese doesn't harm YOUR health. Being around a smoker
does. I'm not offended by someone smoking, I just don't want mine or my
children's health compromised.


http://www.epa.gov/smokefree/healtheffects.html

http://www.cancer.org/Cancer/CancerC...condhand-smoke


"Both mainstream and SHS contain about 20 chemicals that, in high
concentrations, cause breast cancer in rodents"

The operative words are "High concentrations"
A whiff of cigarette smoke is no more dangerous than a whiff of diesel
smoke or that blue cloud coming from a 2 stroke outboard.
The flaw in all of these studies is they do not specify the
concentration that is dangerous. Just smelling something does not mean
the concentration will hurt you. That is true of EVERY chemical OSHA
regulates.

That's because the regulations on tobacco are because of feelings, not
facts like all of the other regulated substances.

Really? So smoking known carcinogens isn't bad for you? You should get
all of your loved ones hooked on them too, there so cool.

In article , says...

On 2/24/2012 11:40 PM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

In ,
says...

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 10:43:01 -0500, wrote:

In ,
says...

Then you're not taking into account the toll from second hand smoke.

Where is the proof that people die from second hand smoke.

http://tinyurl.com/6t3p65o

The Effects of Secondhand Smoke on Adults

There is a lot of conjecture out there but they never put any real
numbers on it. Virtually every other pollutant has OSHA established
threshold limit values but cigarette smoke is seen to have a level of
zero. Are they really trying to say cigarette smoke is more dangerous
than all of the other chemicals that OSHA regulates?
The issue is simply that non smokers or "quit" smokers are offended if
they even SEE someone smoking. It is just about the only class of
people who can be discriminated against with impunity.

If you are simply using the health care cost issue, obesity is a far
bigger problem..

Someone else being obese doesn't harm YOUR health. Being around a smoker
does. I'm not offended by someone smoking, I just don't want mine or my
children's health compromised.


http://www.epa.gov/smokefree/healtheffects.html

http://www.cancer.org/Cancer/CancerC...condhand-smoke

Do you have independent peer reviewed studies that prove that 2nd hand
smoke from cigarettes kills people?



... and who says obese people don't effect others. I bet there is more
generation to generation obesity passed on, then generation to
generation cigarette smokers. And quite frankly, I have been in cars
with morbidly obese people who really couldn't maneuver enough in the
drivers area (and this was a Lincoln Towncar) to be safe on the road...
Either way, the phrase above again, is based on feelings, not facts...

Genetics has a lot to do with how people look. How big their head is,
how big their ass is, how big their belly is, what length their torso
is, how big their nose is, how big their ears are.

I don't think enough is known about the genetics of obesity or
addiction.

On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 09:37:24 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article , says...

On 2/24/2012 11:40 PM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

In ,
says...

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 10:43:01 -0500, wrote:

In ,
says...

Then you're not taking into account the toll from second hand smoke.

Where is the proof that people die from second hand smoke.

http://tinyurl.com/6t3p65o

The Effects of Secondhand Smoke on Adults

There is a lot of conjecture out there but they never put any real
numbers on it. Virtually every other pollutant has OSHA established
threshold limit values but cigarette smoke is seen to have a level of
zero. Are they really trying to say cigarette smoke is more dangerous
than all of the other chemicals that OSHA regulates?
The issue is simply that non smokers or "quit" smokers are offended if
they even SEE someone smoking. It is just about the only class of
people who can be discriminated against with impunity.

If you are simply using the health care cost issue, obesity is a far
bigger problem..

Someone else being obese doesn't harm YOUR health. Being around a smoker
does. I'm not offended by someone smoking, I just don't want mine or my
children's health compromised.


http://www.epa.gov/smokefree/healtheffects.html

http://www.cancer.org/Cancer/CancerC...condhand-smoke

Do you have independent peer reviewed studies that prove that 2nd hand
smoke from cigarettes kills people?



... and who says obese people don't effect others. I bet there is more
generation to generation obesity passed on, then generation to
generation cigarette smokers. And quite frankly, I have been in cars
with morbidly obese people who really couldn't maneuver enough in the
drivers area (and this was a Lincoln Towncar) to be safe on the road...
Either way, the phrase above again, is based on feelings, not facts...

Genetics has a lot to do with how people look. How big their head is,
how big their ass is, how big their belly is, what length their torso
is, how big their nose is, how big their ears are.

I don't think enough is known about the genetics of obesity or
addiction.

There is enough known about obesity to say exercise and fewer calories can have a big effect
thereon! Addiction is a bitch, but it's highly susceptive to will power - with help as needed.
Without the will power, no amount of help will work.

On 2/25/2012 9:37 AM, BAR wrote:
In , says...

On 2/24/2012 11:40 PM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

In ,
says...

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 10:43:01 -0500, wrote:

In ,
says...

Then you're not taking into account the toll from second hand smoke.

Where is the proof that people die from second hand smoke.

http://tinyurl.com/6t3p65o

The Effects of Secondhand Smoke on Adults

There is a lot of conjecture out there but they never put any real
numbers on it. Virtually every other pollutant has OSHA established
threshold limit values but cigarette smoke is seen to have a level of
zero. Are they really trying to say cigarette smoke is more dangerous
than all of the other chemicals that OSHA regulates?
The issue is simply that non smokers or "quit" smokers are offended if
they even SEE someone smoking. It is just about the only class of
people who can be discriminated against with impunity.

If you are simply using the health care cost issue, obesity is a far
bigger problem..

Someone else being obese doesn't harm YOUR health. Being around a smoker
does. I'm not offended by someone smoking, I just don't want mine or my
children's health compromised.


http://www.epa.gov/smokefree/healtheffects.html

http://www.cancer.org/Cancer/CancerC...condhand-smoke

Do you have independent peer reviewed studies that prove that 2nd hand
smoke from cigarettes kills people?



... and who says obese people don't effect others. I bet there is more
generation to generation obesity passed on, then generation to
generation cigarette smokers. And quite frankly, I have been in cars
with morbidly obese people who really couldn't maneuver enough in the
drivers area (and this was a Lincoln Towncar) to be safe on the road...
Either way, the phrase above again, is based on feelings, not facts...

Genetics has a lot to do with how people look. How big their head is,
how big their ass is, how big their belly is, what length their torso
is, how big their nose is, how big their ears are.

I don't think enough is known about the genetics of obesity or
addiction.


It's not like we need a panel or a study you know...

On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 00:38:01 -0500, JustWait
wrote:

That's because the regulations on tobacco are because of feelings, not
facts like all of the other regulated substances.

===

That's nonsense, and with all due respect, you should know better.

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 09:35:36 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:

Really? So smoking known carcinogens isn't bad for you? You should get
all of your loved ones hooked on them too, there so cool.

I don't smoke, nor does anyone in my family but that does not make me
want to engage in irrational discrimination against those who do.
There are "known carcinogens" in virtually everything around us. The
issue is in the concentration, not the mere fact it is there. All of
the anti smokers here have admitted it is the smell that offends them
and they invent the danger based on that. It is like those people who
say they are "allergic" to perfume and after shave simply because they
don't like the smell.

It has gotten to the point that people complain if they just see
people smoking, too far away to even smell the smoke.
I believe it is because they fear they will start smoking again if
they are around tobacco, not that there is any real danger present if
they had an ounce of will power.

What is irrational about me not wanting to die because of the habits of
others? Again, I could care less if someone is stupid enough to pump
toxins into their body. But when they harm me or my family, that's
different. JustWait even admitted that his wife is allowed to smoke in
one room that has an exhaust fan. Is he discrimenating against her? Yes,
the stench IS a real problem, but my family's health is the real issue
here.