Bob D. wrote:


Alright Harry, I'll bite. So according to your statement the evidence
that Bayliners are inferior is cannot travel thiry miles off shore? What
about a Wellcraft? How about an old favorite of mine, a Jersey? Of all
the boats made, you seem to infer that Bayliner are the only ones that
cannot travel off shore so they are the only ones you'll label as
inferior?

I seem to infer? I inferred no such thing. There are lots of crappy boats.



While I don't know enough about boat brands models, on a boat by boat
basis, I'd agree, there are lots of crappy boats. However you *do*
infer that Bayliner is the only crappy boat by your actions.

I make no such inference.



I've have not been in rec.boats since its inception, but I have been here
awhile. I have yet to see a smart ass comment directed at any other brand
of boat, otherwise I would give your statements better consideration. If
you think Bayliner is not alone in building a poor boat, then that the ONE
thing you managed to keep to yourself, since I've been reading.

I've criticized any number of boat brands for any number of reasons.





--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.

Harry,
If I didn't go out when the forecast was for 6-8 foot seas, I would
probably be restricted to about 10 days a year that I could cross the
gulf stream
Kelton
s/v Isle Escape

Harry Krause wrote:
snip

A few weeks ago, I put 250+ miles on one of my boats over a three day
weekend. But I didn't encounter any eight-footers. I check the weather
before I head out, and if eight-footers are predicted, I find something
else to do that day.

Maybe it is because I have no desire to win a Darwin Award.

(Bob D.) wrote in message ...

In article ,
(Scott McFadden) wrote:


Find me one offshore, six pack, diving or fishing charter from Key
West to Fernandina Beach, FL that uses a Bayliner.

Good luck, there aren't any.

I guess it's the "opinion" of these charter Capt's, who are on the
water everyday possible, that Bayliner is not their 1st, 2nd, 3rd,
4th, ect, ect, "choice" if you look at brands of boats in use for that
kind of activity.


Well, I'm not from Florida, how big of an area is this area?

+500 miles along the SE Atlantic coast with boating weather Damn near
365 days a year. When do you Buckeyes start putting your boats into
"hibernation" for the winter? Later this month or, is it already under
way? (BTW, 80F w/a 10kt N wind & scattered showers here tomorrow)

If it's a large area, do you mean to tell me you know EVERY charter boat in
that area???

Find a six pack, offshore, charter that uses a Bayliner and prove me
wrong.

And even if you do, does this directly means that all Bayliners are crap???

No, what it "means" is that Bayliners are totally absent amoung
experienced Captains who rely upon their boat for a living.

Don't you wonder why not a single one of these captains have selected
such a "popular" brand of boat to rely upon?

Also doe this lacking of Bayliners (specifically Trophys) mean the boat is
not suitable for the hardcore offshore and inshore fishing, but a 14 foot
aluminium bass boat is?

There were a couple of pictures of "14' aluminium bass boats" which is
more than we can say about Bayliner, isn't it?

Astonishing, given Bayliner's "popularity", don't you think?

Now you're just being silly! (Note to self:
post my 2160 Trophy to shut Scott up) Just kidding, Scott.

You're welcome to do so. That site is moderated. You won't have to put
up with a never ending stream of OT political crap & nonsense, cheap
shots, or flames, like here on rec.boats :-)


Some of us, however, are a bit more demanding.

Whoa there.... Scott. Ya started off kinda jerky, but then were sounding
like a pretty reasonable guy, until that last left-handed comment.

I endeavor to be a jerk all of the time but as you can see, nobody's
perfect.

Contrary to what many elitest believe, the boat don't make the skipper.
I've been out in a 16' Bayliner in 6-8's in Lake Erie (And let me tell
you, those are NOT ocean swells).

Wave interval is a much more important factor, right?

Tell you what, tough guy, bring a 16' Bayliner to Ponce or Sebastian
when a strong onshore wind is opposing an outgoing tide and go out
past the formidable "standing men" that form in either inlet. I'll
watch from my Whaler, ready for the inevitable rescue attempt. If you
make it, I'll be so impressed I promise to quit ragging on Bayliners
right here and now.

A final word of advice:

"Let me tell you, those are NOT ocean swells"
--
SJM

On 4 Oct 2003 08:51:24 -0700, (Scott McFadden)
wrote:

"Let me tell you, those are NOT ocean swells"

========================================

It's kind of fun to fly down east coast on a clear day in the fall.

You can sometimes see the inlets breaking from 35,000 feet up.

Hey! I resemble that remark! (I'm left handed)

Not only that, but you risk the ire of the entire left wing of the NG!

-W

"Bob D." wrote in message
news:sailbad_d_sinner-

(paraphrased)

Ya were sounding like a reasonable guy, until that last left-handed
comment.

WaIIy wrote:

Note to Bob : I wouldn't be too concerned over the opinion of an
armchair sailor with a pirate on the side of his boat.



Actually, Wal-fert, I have a cartoon of a pirate on *both* sides of Yo
Ho. Everyone I have encounterd thinks both the name and the graphic are
cute as can be. Of course, I don't encounter many dumbed-down,
right-wing asswipes like you when I'm out boating.

As far as "armchair sailing," my guess is that the several hundred hours
I've put on my boats this season alone is a tad more than you have...and
my hours are away from the dock and with the engine running.

You're telling me this is a 2003 Trophy with major problems and he just
accepts this? Hull cracks (10 year warranty)? Shorts (possble fire
hazard)? Windshield falling off? Won't track (does he KNOW how to trim
it)? Cushions already falling apart (under warranty and easily replaced if
true)? My 2003 Trophy has more hours on it, has taken a pounding and hasn't
exhibited ANY of the things you mention. In fact she looks like she belongs
on the showroom floor. Are you sure you LOOKED at his boat? If it were
mine, I'd have the dealer replace it. Or is this just another old wives
tale about the Bayliner brand? But...a Trophy isn't a Bayliner
anymore...hasn't been in 3 years. A Brunswick group boat, yes, but a
Bayliner? No.



"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Bob D. wrote:
I'll not bother to cite more than a couple of examples. I have a friend
with a 2003 Bayliner Trophy 25' walkaround. We frequently ride out
together to fish, each in our own boats, and sometimes together in one
boat. Last time we chatted, couple of weeks ago, he had 50 hours or so
on the engine. The boat is falling apart. The windshield frame has
broken off the cabin top in three places. He's had shorts in the
factory-installed wiring harness. A hatch cover has broken off its
hinges. He's got hairline cracks in the rounded inside corners of his
hull. The boat pounds badly in the typical Chesapeake Bay chop, and when
he trims the engine in enough and drops the tabs to make the chop
tolerable, the boat buries her bow. The boat won't back down in a
straight line. The seams on the cabin cushions are unraveling.

I'm sure his list is longer by now. It's been a few more weeks.

My guess is it is an urban legend. Who the hell would not have returned the
boat for warranty work. I would have expected the author to say it was a
friend of a friend who owned the Trophy.


"Mole" wrote in message
. net...
You're telling me this is a 2003 Trophy with major problems and he just
accepts this? Hull cracks (10 year warranty)? Shorts (possble fire
hazard)? Windshield falling off? Won't track (does he KNOW how to trim
it)? Cushions already falling apart (under warranty and easily replaced
if
true)? My 2003 Trophy has more hours on it, has taken a pounding and
hasn't
exhibited ANY of the things you mention. In fact she looks like she
belongs
on the showroom floor. Are you sure you LOOKED at his boat? If it were
mine, I'd have the dealer replace it. Or is this just another old wives
tale about the Bayliner brand? But...a Trophy isn't a Bayliner
anymore...hasn't been in 3 years. A Brunswick group boat, yes, but a
Bayliner? No.



"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Bob D. wrote:
I'll not bother to cite more than a couple of examples. I have a friend
with a 2003 Bayliner Trophy 25' walkaround. We frequently ride out
together to fish, each in our own boats, and sometimes together in one
boat. Last time we chatted, couple of weeks ago, he had 50 hours or so
on the engine. The boat is falling apart. The windshield frame has
broken off the cabin top in three places. He's had shorts in the
factory-installed wiring harness. A hatch cover has broken off its
hinges. He's got hairline cracks in the rounded inside corners of his
hull. The boat pounds badly in the typical Chesapeake Bay chop, and when
he trims the engine in enough and drops the tabs to make the chop
tolerable, the boat buries her bow. The boat won't back down in a
straight line. The seams on the cabin cushions are unraveling.

I'm sure his list is longer by now. It's been a few more weeks.

Mole wrote:

You're telling me this is a 2003 Trophy with major problems and he just
accepts this?


The boat has been back at the dealer's frequently...and...it is still a
Bayliner, corporate sleight of hand notwithstanding.


--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.

"Mole" wrote in message
. net...
You're telling me this is a 2003 Trophy with major problems and he just
accepts this? Hull cracks (10 year warranty)? Shorts (possble fire
hazard)? Windshield falling off? Won't track (does he KNOW how to trim
it)? Cushions already falling apart (under warranty and easily replaced
if
true)? My 2003 Trophy has more hours on it, has taken a pounding and
hasn't
exhibited ANY of the things you mention. In fact she looks like she
belongs
on the showroom floor. Are you sure you LOOKED at his boat? If it were
mine, I'd have the dealer replace it. Or is this just another old wives
tale about the Bayliner brand? But...a Trophy isn't a Bayliner
anymore...hasn't been in 3 years. A Brunswick group boat, yes, but a
Bayliner? No.

My brother has a 28' Trophy and it's actually a pretty nice boat, certainly
in comparison to the ski boat and the cruiser lines bayliner puts out. He
had plenty of trouble and it took several trips back to the dealer to get
them straightened out.

It has a real head. The only trouble is, because of how it's designed, if
you're more than 5' 9" you can't stand up to take a ****. You've got to
lean with your head cranked sideways against the bulkhead.

Fit and finish is much better than the other bayliner products if witnessed.